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Posted by carpenter on 12-11-2022 06:00 PM:

dog breeding

is first cousins line breeding


Posted by Eric Bierman on 12-12-2022 01:31 AM:

Yes.


Posted by DL NH on 12-12-2022 02:07 AM:

Just remember this……….line breeding is also a form of inbreeding. As such it has as much possibility to magnify the faults as it does the strengths. Very few people have the fortitude or a sufficient knowledge of the background behind sire and dam to make good decisions in making tight genetic breedings.

Those who have been successful have undoubtedly had to make some tough decisions. My opinion is that the handful of hound breeders who have been successful in maintaining a family strain have an understanding of what they want in a hound, are hard to please and are reliant on the help of others who share their same vision.

__________________
Dan


Posted by yadkinriver on 12-12-2022 12:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DL NH
Just remember this……….line breeding is also a form of inbreeding. As such it has as much possibility to magnify the faults as it does the strengths. Very few people have the fortitude or a sufficient knowledge of the background behind sire and dam to make good decisions in making tight genetic breedings.

Those who have been successful have undoubtedly had to make some tough decisions. My opinion is that the handful of hound breeders who have been successful in maintaining a family strain have an understanding of what they want in a hound, are hard to please and are reliant on the help of others who share their same vision.

fact!


Posted by fogebotom on 12-12-2022 03:29 PM:

Gonna throw this out there for anyone who really wants to get into the genetics of inbreeding, linebreeding, outcrossing, coefficient of inbreeding(COI) in pedigrees.

Dt Jerod Bell is a well known professor at Tufts Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine.

While not a coonhound related event, The Cardigan Welsh Corgi Club of America had him present at a national specialty show a few years ago and taped the presentation. It's on their public website and available for anyone to watch/listen to. I always encourage people in any breed of dog to look at websites of other breed clubs, AKC or UKC. The amount of knowledge available is amazing.

All forms of breeding serve a purpose but as the previous poster noted, you have to have knowledge of the lines, traits and what your goals are to do it right. Also, factoring in testing as a tool complicates things. We tend to focus on one name in a pedigree but need to also remember that the other pups in a litter also factor into what happens going forward as the good dog also carries the genetic junk of the others. Keeping tabs on all dog produced is very important down the road.

https://cardigancorgis.com/cwcca/ed...l-presentation/


Posted by Black Ash Bawl on 12-13-2022 08:35 AM:

com on

the guy on this video is talking about dogs 8 and 10 generations back affecting the dog you have now. I would think anything more than 5 generations back is really not to be considered.

__________________
I have my best hound now. Cricket out of Moonlight/Outlaw Mac by Feldmans Roxie,


Posted by Reuben on 12-13-2022 11:40 PM:

Re: dog breeding

quote:
Originally posted by carpenter
is first cousins line breeding


1st cousins could possibly have a very diverse gene pool from each other…one cousin could be a registered walker and the other a walker x beagle or whatever…or, they can be registered Walkers with similar characteristics…personally I don’t see it as tight breeding unless they also have other common relatives close up…

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...


Posted by fogebotom on 12-14-2022 04:21 PM:

Re: com on

quote:
Originally posted by Black Ash Bawl
the guy on this video is talking about dogs 8 and 10 generations back affecting the dog you have now. I would think anything more than 5 generations back is really not to be considered.


Yes and no. If you understand COI then factoring in the dogs further back in a pedigree does have an effect. Especially when you think about the regionality of breeding up until the last couple of decades. Mass transportation, the ability to collect and ship semen and the frozen that is now being used from 30 years ago(yes seen a lot of that lately) then you start tightening down on the gene pool significantly.

I did a lot of digging back in another breed pedigree once. It was interesting to see the littermates being bred multiple times in a pedigree, that you would not realize are littermates until you went back to the 6th, 7th or 8th generation.

To me, pedigrees are puzzles and very fun to work through, but in the end, it's about the phyiscal dog in front of you, the knowledge of the littermates and then the what the dogs behind produced or didn't produce. We do tend to chase the "paper tiger" sometimes too much.


Posted by Reuben on 12-14-2022 11:30 PM:

Re: Re: com on

quote:
Originally posted by fogebotom


To me, pedigrees are puzzles and very fun to work through, but in the end, it's about the phyiscal dog in front of you, the knowledge of the littermates and then the what the dogs behind produced or didn't produce. We do tend to chase the "paper tiger" sometimes too much.



As you said…it’s about the physical dog in front of you…I like to see a great dog 3 or 4 times in a 6 generation pedigree and another great dog 2 or 3 times…at least I know the probability is there for producing good to great dogs…

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...


Posted by DL NH on 12-15-2022 03:29 PM:

Probably going to take some heat for this…….
There are people that are pedigree blind and care more about what can be seen in a 6-7 generation pedigree than what can be evidenced in the actual dog’s performance and that of its siblings, parents, grand parents, etc., that are attached to the pedigree.

Successful breeders are encompassed by a few good people whose observations of and experience with training and hunting hounds is trusted. I think most would agree that maintaining and repeatedly producing top quality hounds is not for the faint of heart.

I’m not one of them and never will be. I’ve had hounds for over 45 years. I don’t need both hands to count the “special” ones I’ve owned.

__________________
Dan


Posted by MOcoondogs on 12-15-2022 06:10 PM:

Guy Ormiston has a book about hound breeding and the importance of ability as well as the pedigree. I recommend anyone who is thinking of becoming a breeder or wanting info on the why to's and why not's to read it entirely. He takes studies of different breeds, also different classes of working dogs. I didn't like everything I read because it pointed out the flaws in my breeding theories that had been proven to fail the test of time. It did however confirm some theories that I had and had tested previously to reading the book that did work for me. This gave more credibility, for me, to the info he was passing on.


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