UKC Forums - Proven cross?

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Posted by Levi Hawk on 05-11-2015 11:48 PM:

Proven cross?

Waiting for the sun to go down so here it goes. I see this all the time and sometimes I just chuckle. So what is everyone's definition of a proven cross?

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Posted by RLenhart on 05-12-2015 12:06 AM:

proven cross?

Two dogs that have been bred together before that produced good pups. IMO

Posted by croatankid on 05-12-2015 12:35 AM:

Bingo!

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Posted by Levi Hawk on 05-12-2015 12:38 AM:

That's a pretty vague statement!

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Posted by RLenhart on 05-12-2015 12:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Levi Hawk
That's a pretty vague statement!

??????

Posted by Levi Hawk on 05-12-2015 12:52 AM:

One mans "good pup" is different from another. That's a more open statement then a started dog IMO. So what makes them a good pup. Treeing coon? Nitech? Money won? Shakes? This was the basis to my question.

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Posted by shadinc on 05-12-2015 12:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Levi Hawk
That's a pretty vague statement!

Could you give us some examples of what else it could mean?

Posted by GA DAWG on 05-12-2015 12:59 AM:

May just be me but you never hear much out of the 2nd and 3rd time litters. Some you do but most times not.

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Posted by Rocketman55 on 05-12-2015 01:51 AM:

IMO there is NO SUCH THING as a proven cross. There are some crosses that click on the first mating and then there are some that click on the 2nd or 3rd mating. However having said that, most of the time the 2nd or 3rd mating never occurs unless the first one worked pretty good.

I will defend my position by asking the question, how many pups in the same litter, act alike, sound alike, and train out alike??? If they were different in the first litter, they will probably be different in the next cross as well.

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Posted by Greg Burks on 05-12-2015 03:07 AM:

I made a proven cross a few years ago every pup turned out the same...none of them was worth a dime they proved to be absolutely useless...lol

Posted by RatDog on 05-12-2015 12:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Greg Burks
I made a proven cross a few years ago every pup turned out the same...none of them was worth a dime they proved to be absolutely useless...lol

Har...beautiful

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Posted by HOBO on 05-12-2015 12:47 PM:

Bred Lobo to Sassy several times with great results each time, Bred Lobo to Shadow several time with great results, bred Boone to Shaow and Dolly several times with great results and I've bred Pride to Ruby several times with great results.

How can you say there is no such thing as a proven cross?

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Posted by croatankid on 05-12-2015 05:40 PM:

this is only a coon dog forum. it is not a court of law. must every term be defined before we can discuss anything? no one is going to be held to account. we can write what ever we want and it's ok. just relax.
a proven cross is whatever you say or think it is.

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Posted by shadinc on 05-12-2015 06:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Levi Hawk
One mans "good pup" is different from another. That's a more open statement then a started dog IMO. So what makes them a good pup. Treeing coon? Nitech? Money won? Shakes? This was the basis to my question. "

"Good pup" is the same as "beauty". It's in the eye of the beholder.

Posted by Levi Hawk on 05-13-2015 12:26 AM:

Fellas this was just a post to see what opinions were on the phrase proven cross. Not a bicker session. I actually thought we'd get some good responses.

I guess I'll start. To me a proven cross has to prove them selves. It's nice that they're good acting pups and showing interest, but I want the proven part. Winners. Titles and money won, and doing it night after night solo. That's not one or two pups but all but one or two.

There is no right or wrong answer. It's just nice to see the difference of opinion on a friendly form.

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Posted by T Felderman on 05-13-2015 12:33 AM:

What if you have 8 pups in a litter, 2 of them get in the "right hands" and make something; the others don't. Is that a proven cross?

Posted by Levi Hawk on 05-13-2015 12:36 AM:

If I was the one looking at getting a pup out of that repeat cross I'd ask what all the pups were doing. If 2 were doing it and 6 weren't whether do to the hands they're in or what not I'd have to say no. Doesn't mean they aren't/weren't capable, just means they aren't. I wouldn't say 25% is proven. Now that's just me.

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Posted by RLenhart on 05-13-2015 01:02 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Levi Hawk
If I was the one looking at getting a pup out of that repeat cross I'd ask what all the pups were doing. If 2 were doing it and 6 weren't whether do to the hands they're in or what not I'd have to say no. Doesn't mean they aren't/weren't capable, just means they aren't. I wouldn't say 25% is proven. Now that's just me.

I would agree with that. I would want to see something better than 50% make coon hounds, not necessarily world beaters just good solid coon hounds that people who get to hunt with them tend to talk about when they see them go.
To me your talking about a proven cross when you see multiple dogs out of a cross getting that kind of attention.

Posted by Chris Snyder on 05-13-2015 02:34 AM:

Proven Cross

A proven cross to me is one that produces consistent pups every time. By that I mean they have similar desirable traits that can be marked by the parents and the traits they have.

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 05-13-2015 03:25 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Levi Hawk
If I was the one looking at getting a pup out of that repeat cross I'd ask what all the pups were doing. If 2 were doing it and 6 weren't whether do to the hands they're in or what not I'd have to say no. Doesn't mean they aren't/weren't capable, just means they aren't. I wouldn't say 25% is proven. Now that's just me.

depends on what those 2 went on to win about anything will tree with enough reps.give me a freak.

Posted by Frank M on 05-13-2015 06:43 PM:

I breed the same female to the same male years ago. The first litter turned out several nice hounds......the second litter turned out nothing but common junk. That cured me of ever wanting to make the same cross again!!! Just my opinion for what it's worth.

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Posted by HOBO on 05-13-2015 07:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Frank M
I breed the same female to the same male years ago. The first litter turned out several nice hounds......the second litter turned out nothing but common junk. That cured me of ever wanting to make the same cross again!!! Just my opinion for what it's worth.

But we're the pups off the second cross given the same chance that the ones off the first one was given?

Posted by Frank M on 05-14-2015 02:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
But we're the pups off the second cross given the same chance that the ones off the first one was given?

Yes they had the same chance. I raised 2 out of both litters, the first litter would flat get it done. The second litter were lazy and preferred to just run with very little tree in them.

Posted by msinc on 05-14-2015 02:25 PM:

I think if everyone was happy with their pup then it's a proven cross. There is a cross talked about often on here in which just about all the puppies made nite champion {some might even be grand by now.} There is a lot of demand and interest in making that cross again. Yet the owner of the female chose not to breed back to that stud whose puppies are in demand and sell quickly. He could have named his price.....Looks like to me he'd have figured out where to go after the first one was so successful, but he didn't.

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