UKC Forums - Just wanted to say thanks.....

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Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 07-31-2014 09:39 PM:

Just wanted to say thanks.....

Just wanted to say thanks to all of the great hound people that have pups from the litters I have raised or that are out of one of our studs. I heard a rumor that I am the only one who can win with pups from these crosses....which is not at all true...not by a long shot. I have pups from my males and females spread all over the country and below is a list of " other" people who have competed in competition events and won with their pups or one of my dogs.
To each and everyone of these people (sorry if I left anyone out) I want to say thank you for investing your time and money into proving these pups you got from crosses I have made.....can win in competition. I really appreciate it and you are all helping me and the rest of the breed to produce better more competitive redbones.

Michael Ford -Alabama
Robbie Abrams - North Carolina
Danny Biggert- Ohio
Tony Dominguez - Texas
Taylor Case - Michigan
Lisa Key - Wisconsin
Keith Bowling - Indiana
Zach Vote - Iowa
Herschel Burt - New York
John Biggert - Ohio
Trista Williams - Oklahoma
Mike Andrews - New York

__________________
Shane Maxey
Proud lifetime member of the NRA
Banshee Wildlife Products
Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Jinx
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
"Always outnumbered...Never outgunned!"
To enjoy lots of pics and videos of out redbones, find me on Facebook
as Shenandoah Maxey

Posted by sox12 on 08-02-2014 02:02 PM:

Shane the reason these people win with your crosses are they hunt the dogs hard,they don't leave them sit in the kennel,they are hunting them hard,if you want to be in the winners circle you got to hunt the dog to keep it in shape,the more they get hunted that the more they learn.not everybody get train dogs.

George

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 08-02-2014 07:50 PM:

Thanks George.
I have always believed you get out of these dogs what you put in and i have tried to get my pups and young dogs into the hands of people I believe in....and I am happy to see it is working. If you are going to make a cross you believe might be a great one....you need to get the pups to people who know what to do and have a burning desire to put in the long hours so that pup gets its chance to reach its full potential....

Posted by jbiggert on 08-03-2014 02:54 AM:

well said shane, and good luck with them good crosses.

__________________
John Biggert

Males

1) Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Nighty Nite Little Red - (Semen) (Gr. Nt. Yellow River Rocky X Nt. Ch. Gr. F Grw. Maggie)

2) Gr. Ch. Nt. Ch. Nighty Nite Red Cloud - 4 Years Old (Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. To The Max X Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann)

3) Nighty Nite T - (Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight After Shock X Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann)

Females

1) Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann - 9 Years Old (Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Steps Little Pepper X Gr. Nt. Ch. Nighty Nite Moonlight Kate)

2) Gr. Ch. Nighty Nite Little Red Sky - 3 Years Old (Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Outlaw Red Moon X Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann)

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-03-2014 03:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw
..... have a burning desire ...

Yep, that is what it takes. But you have to get them the right fuel so that the fire doesn't burn out.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 08-03-2014 07:37 PM:

I agree Richard.
Making well thought out crosses that produce pups with the "right stuff" is that fuel. But what I am not sure everyone understands is....you still have to work hard to ignite that flame and then continuously work to keep it fed.
I believe there are lots of great crosses made each year in our breed...but I think too many times these pups don't get the opportunity they really deserve.
What i mean by that is many people who get them just do not really understand the phases that dogs go through from pup to young started dog, to well started dog, to finished dog. Too many people buy a well bred pup and think they can raise it in a kennel till its 6 or 7 months old and then take it hunting a few times with the old dogs and it "should" be running and treeing.
I think many get turned off when they dont and assume the got a dud from the litter. Thats why when I pick people to get one of my pups I try to make sure they have started and trained young dogs before. So they dont get turned off by unrealistic expectations of what they "want" to see their dog doing.
Everyone has their own way of starting and training dogs....but I want people to know that even if you are lucky enough to get a pup that is a complete natural ( and this would be a very low % of dogs produced in our breed) you will still have to train this dog along the way. What I mean by that is....there are two basic kinds of training ....encouragement and discouragement.
I call the latter correction and even a natural born tree dog will always need some correction along the way as in learning to lead and handle, correction for treeing off game in some cases, correction for running off game in other cases, etc.
If there is one thing I hope people realize in this breed it is that even the best dogs.....the biggest winning dogs of this breed and every other breed had to be actively managed and trained and tuned and tweaked along the way before and during that winning. Dogs are like children....you have to invest lots of quality time in them and make sure they stay on track with where you want them to go.....if you start to slack or look the other way very long.....most will get distracted and it usually happens when they are exposed to other dogs with bad habits that they will encounter in competition hunts. As a rule, I try to hunt whatever dog I am pushing in competition at any given time at least 3 nights alone for every weekend of competition hunting with other dogs just to keep their head straight. I also try to drop them at least one time on my way home from a competition hunt by their selves just to get what happened during the cast cleared out of their head. I think building a dogs confidence is key to that dog doing what it needs to do in competition without being influenced by other dogs in the cast. I want to have the leader of the pack....not a follower....and leaders have confidence that is hard to rattle.
Hunting a dog alone builds confidence quicker than anything else I have seen. Well, didn't mean to turn this thread into a training seminar...lol
But anyhow, I am grateful to all those who have taken the time and invested their money into giving pups from my dogs the chance I feel they deserve. When I make a cross, I feel like they should have the "fuel" to ignite a winner in each pup... but its owner still has to know how to produce that first spark and once that fire is lit....they have to keep feeding that flame all the way to the winners circle! Good luck everyone....shane

Posted by Ed Morgan on 08-03-2014 08:23 PM:

I agree 100%

As a newcomer to coon hunting, I wasn't influenced by oldtimer methods of starting pups. I started them the same way I trained bird dog pups and it worked. I also had real good advice from Ted Baker, and read John Wicks books and used what I though made sense. I think a pup learns much better on his own than by following an old dog, and builds his confidence much better and becomes a leader, independent, loner(whatever u want to call it). It sure worked for me on my first 2 pups and the others I'm starting now. Shane, write a short book in your spare time and add to your income and help all the novices, you've got a lot of good knowledge to share.

__________________
Rocky Comfort Redbones

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 08-03-2014 10:35 PM:

Re: I agree 100%

quote:
Originally posted by Ed Morgan
As a newcomer to coon hunting, I wasn't influenced by oldtimer methods of starting pups. I started them the same way I trained bird dog pups and it worked. I also had real good advice from Ted Baker, and read John Wicks books and used what I though made sense. I think a pup learns much better on his own than by following an old dog, and builds his confidence much better and becomes a leader, independent, loner(whatever u want to call it). It sure worked for me on my first 2 pups and the others I'm starting now. Shane, write a short book in your spare time and add to your income and help all the novices, you've got a lot of good knowledge to share.

I might have a lot to share Ed, but its that spare time thing I dont seem to have much of...lol. I have been making a lot of videos, as you may have noticed. I have many more that I have made along the way that i have been archiving fora project when iI get some time. I think a lot of folks might find it interesting to see how some big winning dogs got their start and all the aspects of the different stages of their training....the good and the bad. As well as the methods I personally use to encourage and sustain good behavior and the correction methods i use to discourage bad behavior. As most of you know, I hunt alone and its hard for one person to produce good video footage of all of these things....but I am trying to capture as much as I can in hopes of putting together something useful down the road. Many times people only see the finished result when a dog has matured and really starts winning big....and they think it just started out good and only got better. The fact is, I have trained and handled many truly great top level dogs of many breeds and all had problems and setbacks before they pulled it all together and started to win consistently. I think if more people understood this....and saw first hand how some of these dogs were worked through those problems to become what they did....it might give them the confidence they need to stick with their own dogs through the problem areas until the dog finishes out to its full potential. When I look at our breed I see crosses being made that should produce real good, possibly top level redbones.....but I dont see many turning out that way. Why?
I think a lot of people, even those who have coon hunted for years do not fully understand all the stages that young dogs go through as they mature into a finished dog...and many do not know what works best to get their dog through these stages. Sometimes people will get a really good started dog and finish it out to a top dog and do a lot of winning....but then struggle for years to ever come up with another one because they try what worked on the first one and it doesn't work on the second one....so they blame it on the breeding.
I have almost never trained a dog from a pup that I personally chose from a cross I was sure would be a good one that the pup didn't make a good to great coon dog and earn a title. I have had dogs go through bad stages where I actually considered culling them....but kept working to correct the problem....and they went on and made great dogs and finish out to gr.Nt.ch. easily once they put things together. Once a person sees that they can turn around many problems that they encounter in a dog as it progresses through the different stages of starting and training....then you know when to have more patience and when its an incurable problem and the dog should be culled. I have found very few problems with redbones that i have not been able to get a dog through and most have to do with fighting, digging, chewing, jumping, back tracking and extreme slick treeing.
I like a pretty naturally straight dog....but thats not always what you get...so Ihave had to break many dogs from off game. There are seasonal stages your dog will go through that also will have you pulling out your hair.
When things get green and thick a dog not used to it may struggle.
When kitten coons come out dogs not exposed to them my struggle.
When coons get in the corn dogs may struggle the first fall they encounter it.
In some areas in the North in the fall when coon get on the acorns they struggle.
Each and every one of these things that change seasonally can, and often do cause a young dog who was looking great in the winter and spring....to appear to have lost their mind and backslid when they run into this new challenge brought on by a change in the seasons or a change in the food source coons are using. This is where you have to have patience and keep working to get them through it. Some of these things you need to keep hunting them till they get better at dealing with it....and other ones you need to show restraint and lay them up for a few weeks until it passes and then resume training.
Well I hope some of that makes a little sense. It was good talking to you at American and National days Ed. Look forward to seeing you at the next hunt....shane

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-04-2014 04:41 PM:

Re: Just wanted to say thanks.....

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw
...... I heard a rumor that I am the only one who can win with pups from these crosses....which is not at all true...To each and everyone of these people (sorry if I left anyone out) I want to say thank you.........

I heard that Joe Maitland just won Overall Champion at US Redbone Days with a Moonight Dog owned by Roger Shabel. Joe has that "burning desire" that you are talking about.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 08-04-2014 08:08 PM:

I just listed out the people who were winning with pups out of the Outlaw studs from crosses I made or raised.....if we list out everyone winning with the Moonlight offspring the list would be very long indeed. Although I helped a lot with Aftershock and many of the other Moonlight dogs I didn't want to take any credit for placing any of the pups from that line. Joe has won a lot over the years...thats for sure.
I have not hunted with Jenny yet, but I keep hearing about her..she must be a good one. Its great to see people working together and combining different lines to come up with new and different styles of winners. Speaking of which, I got four of the cutest little pups Out in the back yard that combines Dual Grand Champion Outlaw Billy the Kid x Dual Grand Champion River Ridge Willow.....and I think they are going to be some loud little thangs! Lots of good proven blood, up close in that pedigree.....cant wait till mine gets old enough to start
Will we see Joe handling Jenny in more hunts down the road?

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