UKC Forums - one min rule ?

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-- one min rule ? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928320368)

Posted by joennate on 05-24-2013 04:46 PM:

one min rule ?

how does this work? if u strike befor the min do they still but the 8 on them or what ? like to know all the ins and outs of this rule . I know akc rule is different strike befor the min and u have to tree befor that min . I am told ukc is different any info please

Posted by Paul Frederick on 05-24-2013 05:01 PM:

Basically the minute rule is a grace period where handlers do not have to strike their dogs. This keeps people from having to strike their dog on just a few excited barks when you cut them off the chain.

You can still strike (or tree for that matter) your dog in the minute. There is no rule where if you strike in the minute then the dog has to open up again within so much time or be treed within so many minutes. The 8-minute rule can be applied to any dog no matter when it was declared struck.

Many hunters assume that you can only get minused for striking your dog on a babble if you strike them in the minute. This is not true. If you read Rule 4(g) babbling is defined as "when a dog opens three time or has been struck where no track is evident." The rule makes no mention of the minute grace period.

Hope this clears this rule up for you a little.

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Posted by devan131313 on 05-24-2013 05:28 PM:

i know a lot of people who always get this wrong and no one will strike in the minute but if my dog opens i will strike it thats just how she is when she barks she smells something.......can't wait till i pull this out at the next hunt gonna blow some peoples minds LOL

Posted by Jeff Ashmore on 05-24-2013 05:53 PM:

Thanks for explaining Paul.

In my first one i went to I struck under the minute and was looked as rather crazy. Plain and simple if my dog barks he will tree that coon. Which he did in another 3 minutes of running and had coon. Everyone should know your dog.

Thanks for explanation Paul.

Thanks Jeff A.

Posted by JSteely on 05-24-2013 06:07 PM:

Too many people try to use the other KCs 1 min. rule in UKC. I was in the AR State hunt we had 2 dogs that barked when we turned them lose they would not strike them and when my Gyp opened up I struck her in for 100 and the judge said my dog was struck in for 100 under the first minute. we had dogs that babbled and the handlers knew it or they would have struck there dogs in. when my opens her mouth she is smelling coon. I don't know why the judge said under the first minute.unless it is another KCs rule.

Posted by JiM on 05-24-2013 06:09 PM:

How is PKC's one minute rule different from UKC's one minute rule?

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Posted by rweller on 05-24-2013 06:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Frederick
Basically the minute rule is a grace period where handlers do not have to strike their dogs. This keeps people from having to strike their dog on just a few excited barks when you cut them off the chain.

You can still strike (or tree for that matter) your dog in the minute. There is no rule where if you strike in the minute then the dog has to open up again within so much time or be treed within so many minutes. The 8-minute rule can be applied to any dog no matter when it was declared struck.

Many hunters assume that you can only get minused for striking your dog on a babble if you strike them in the minute. This is not true. If you read Rule 4(g) babbling is defined as "when a dog opens three time or has been struck where no track is evident." The rule makes no mention of the minute grace period.

Hope this clears this rule up for you a little.

Paul, its rule 4(h) Dog(s) declared struck and determined to be babbling will be minused their strike points. Babbling is
defined as when a dog opens three times or has been struck where no track is evident.

If a dog opens in the 1st minute and is struck and then doesn't bark again for 3 or 4 minutes I would consider that babbling (no track evident) and minuse the dog.

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Posted by Paul Frederick on 05-24-2013 06:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rweller
Paul, its rule 4(h) Dog(s) declared struck and determined to be babbling will be minused their strike points. Babbling is
defined as when a dog opens three times or has been struck where no track is evident.

If a dog opens in the 1st minute and is struck and then doesn't bark again for 3 or 4 minutes I would consider that babbling (no track evident) and minuse the dog.

You are correct Ralph, it is Rule 4(h). I typed the wrong letter even though I was looking right at the Rulebook.

I would say most people would consider that same type of scenario as babbling. What many people do is misapply the 1 minute grace period. What if this same scenario happened but the dog wasn't declared struck until 5 minutes after turning loose. Would you still minus the dog for babbling? Most judges would say no citing the fact that the dog was not declared struck in the first minute.

This is a misapplication of Rule 4(h). No where in that rule does it mention that a dog has to be declared struck in the grace period for those strike points to be eligible for minusing. The rule plainly defines babbling and what to do if a dog is babbling anytime throughout the hunt, not just during the first minute.

The grace period is just that: a grace period. You receive grace from having to strike your dog. There is no rule preventing you from striking your dog in the minute but you cannot strike a dog that is babbling at any point during the hunt, within the minute or not.

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Posted by T Felderman on 05-24-2013 06:31 PM:

How many times has anyone seen a dog minused for babbling 5 minutes after they were cut loose?

I'll bet nobody, not once.

Posted by Paul Frederick on 05-24-2013 06:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by T Felderman
How many times has anyone seen a dog minused for babbling 5 minutes after they were cut loose?

I'll bet nobody, not once.

I didn't say it gets done, I'm saying it's not against the rule. Most times the dog has been out that long you're going to have a hard time proving they are babbling. It could happen but it would be a long shot.

The main point of my post was simple: just because a dog is not declared struck during the one minute grace period does not mean that dog cannot be minused for babbling. No matter when a dog is struck, if it's babbling, it can be minused for such.

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Posted by tim griffin on 05-24-2013 07:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
How is PKC's one minute rule different from UKC's one minute rule?

pkc if you strike under the minute they have to carry the track out can't shut up and open 300 yards deeper

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Posted by prostockpat on 05-24-2013 07:01 PM:

PAUL

another rule for you to clear up,please.
I brought it up earlier,but would like your take.

Whats the call on a dog coming into a closed tree.3 dogs treed, 1 still on track.
squalling starts at 8min. dog comes in,handled,then coon seen.

does that dog gets minused just its strike and nothing to tree points{because it was never treed}?

so......
closed tree.coon seen?
closed tree no coon seen;circle{leaves,den}?
closed tree no coon seen {slick}?

been in a few hunts most judges scored differently!!

Posted by jackbob42 on 05-24-2013 07:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rweller

If a dog opens in the 1st minute and is struck and then doesn't bark again for 3 or 4 minutes I would consider that babbling (no track evident) and minuse the dog.

You can't wait 3 or 4 minutes to minus a dog for babbling.
It was in the advisor book , and also here online.
As soon as the dog is struck , the judge must decide , as soon as possible , whether he feels the dog is babbling or not.
I'd say within 30 seconds or so a judge would be able to make this decision.

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 05-24-2013 07:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jackbob42
You can't wait 3 or 4 minutes to minus a dog for babbling.
It was in the advisor book , and also here online.
As soon as the dog is struck , the judge must decide , as soon as possible , whether he feels the dog is babbling or not.
I'd say within 30 seconds or so a judge would be able to make this decision.

Pretty hairy situation if you ask me.

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Posted by patches9452 on 05-24-2013 07:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jackbob42
You can't wait 3 or 4 minutes to minus a dog for babbling.
It was in the advisor book , and also here online.
As soon as the dog is struck , the judge must decide , as soon as possible , whether he feels the dog is babbling or not.
I'd say within 30 seconds or so a judge would be able to make this decision.

you are way better at smelling a coon than me if you can determine that fast on a true babbler... also if a dog opens and then its 3not or 4so minutes before they open again does not mean they are babbling... what if they open in the same general area as they did before... some dogs babble and others open when they smell coon and before getting it lined out.... got to know the difference

Posted by Billy Beckham on 05-24-2013 08:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by tim griffin
pkc if you strike under the minute they have to carry the track out can't shut up and open 300 yards deeper

Never had that one applied, must be a regional rule.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 05-24-2013 08:05 PM:

I like AKCs minute rule. If you strike inside the minute the call must immediatly followed by a tree call. If dogs are opening when the minute expires, those strike points are split
It works nice and is a little tougher on the babblers.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 05-24-2013 08:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by tim griffin
pkc if you strike under the minute they have to carry the track out can't shut up and open 300 yards deeper

They can't in Ukc either. That's why its best to have an auto strike dog instead of the lowly babbler.

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Posted by Billy Beckham on 05-24-2013 08:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rweller

If a dog opens in the 1st minute and is struck and then doesn't bark again for 3 or 4 minutes I would consider that babbling (no track evident) and minuse the dog.

I hope I never draw you as judge because you won't apply that crap to me.
My dog will open when he smells the track. The will only open when it starts lining out. He opens he has 8 minutes to open again. He will not get caught by the 8.
My job is to call my dog for what it does. Judges job is to write it down.

I often wonder why some ding dong packing a score card thinks he know more about my dog than I do.

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Posted by JiM on 05-24-2013 08:12 PM:

The only requirement for minusing a dog for babbling is that the judge must believe the dog was struck where there is no track. All these other so called requirements are in no way ever mentioned in the rule book. The only thing that matters is what the judge believes. Was the dog struck where there is a track or wasn't it? That is all the judge needs to answer. The clock has nothing to do with making this call.

Posted by prostockpat on 05-24-2013 08:14 PM:

""I often wonder why some ding dong packing a score card thinks he know more about my dog than I do. ""

LMAO.you should come to some of the hunts around me!!!

Posted by tim griffin on 05-24-2013 08:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
Never had that one applied, must be a regional rule.

u get me or hensely or tyree or others at world hunt ss or nationals and you strike under the minute and don't carry out track you will get minused

Posted by Billy Beckham on 05-24-2013 08:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by tim griffin
u get me or hensely or tyree or others at world hunt ss or nationals and you strike under the minute and don't carry out track you will get minused

His far? Because we will step it off to see how far he went.

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Posted by prostockpat on 05-24-2013 08:23 PM:

Re: PAUL

quote:
Originally posted by prostockpat
another rule for you to clear up,please.
I brought it up earlier,but would like your take.

Whats the call on a dog coming into a closed tree.3 dogs treed, 1 still on track.
squalling starts at 8min. dog comes in,handled,then coon seen.

does that dog gets minused just its strike and nothing to tree points{because it was never treed}?

so......
closed tree.coon seen?
closed tree no coon seen;circle{leaves,den}?
closed tree no coon seen {slick}?

been in a few hunts most judges scored differently!!

Posted by tim griffin on 05-24-2013 08:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
His far? Because we will step it off to see how far he went.

rule says a reasonable distance a quarter isn't reasonable

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