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-- Attention UKC (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=499458)

Attention UKC

Maybe this question has been addressed before and I missed it, the semen advertised from long dead studs: How is the DNA checked? With the prices being charged for this semen I would want iron clad proof it came from the dog advertised and I know one dog in particular died prior to DNA being widely available. Just curious, seems like some of them must have spent most of their life ejactulating for so much to be available.

Tom Humphrey

UKC reply?

There have been over 180 hits on this post but no answers from anyone at UKC. I'm not trying to be antagonistic or wanting to stir up something, just wondering if anyone is checking the DNA on semen, we're talking about spending several thousand dollars for breeding to some of the deceased studs, shouldn't the DNA be checked on the semen prior to someone being able to sell it?

Tom

Re: UKC reply?

quote:

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Originally posted by barrelmaker
There have been over 180 hits on this post but no answers from anyone at UKC. I'm not trying to be antagonistic or wanting to stir up something, just wondering if anyone is checking the DNA on semen, we're talking about spending several thousand dollars for breeding to some of the deceased studs, shouldn't the DNA be checked on the semen prior to someone being able to sell it?

Tom

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__________________
Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

Bright Eye Lights


Treeing Walkers

912-663-5287 cell (perfered)

SEMEN PUPS?

has anyone ever seen anything really nice come out of frozen semen...any breed?if so name them.

heard of nice hounds from chilled,just not frozen/stored.
"old"breeder{75 yrs old} told me same thing.he's never seen or had any luck with frozen/stored semen either.

something to think about before dropping the $$$

Never heard of many but my buddy has a pretty dang nice one off Harry. Least I like him. He's a coon treer!!

__________________
Michael Ghorley

Unfortunately unless a DNA profile is established on a dog prior to it's passing there is no real guarantee that the semen is from the dog that it's claimed to be from.

UKC did establish a policy in the late 90's that requires all semen collected after January 1, 1997 for freezing be DNA profiled prior to registering any offspring.

SEMEN

DNA AND CYROGENICS/FREEZING WASN'T EVEN AVAIL. WHEN SOME OF THESE "STUDS" WERE TO HAVE BEEN COLLECTED!! THAT IS ANOTHER PROBLEM I HAVE.

I THINK BARRELMAKER HAS SOME HARD FACTS ON THAT.

United Kennel Club was the first registry to offer DNA as a service and we didn't start until the mid 90's but there were laboratories out there offering these services independently.

It would be interesting to be able to know what was really in some of those old dogs. If it worked it worked but there would be a lot in there that wouldn't be of any hound breed.

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Thanks Angela

quote:

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Originally posted by Angela
Unfortunately unless a DNA profile is established on a dog prior to it's passing there is no real guarantee that the semen is from the dog that it's claimed to be from.

UKC did establish a policy in the late 90's that requires all semen collected after January 1, 1997 for freezing be DNA profiled prior to registering any offspring.

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btt

btt

If the semen is still being housed were it was drawn I would think a person would be pretty safe in takeing the vet's word that it hadn't been switched.

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Is there someone out there selling semen that hasn't been DNA profiled? None that I know of but I sure don't know about everything out there. I will say this though, I bet if someone pays big bucks for some rare old semen that hasn't been profiled, they prolly don't want it profiled and don't want to know. And those who buy into those breedings should do so while humming that old saying LET THE BUYER BEWARE.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Is there someone out there selling semen that hasn't been DNA profiled?

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__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Yeah, I just looked it up. Zoogen claims it was the first and it started in 1989.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Old semen

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Is there someone out there selling semen that hasn't been DNA profiled? None that I know of but I sure don't know about everything out there. I will say this though, I bet if someone pays big bucks for some rare old semen that hasn't been profiled, they prolly don't want it profiled and don't want to know. And those who buy into those breedings should do so while humming that old saying LET THE BUYER BEWARE.

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Well here's tha thing Tom. Anyone your age is likely well aware of how things were done back in the pre-DNA age. There are alot of our senior breeders still around today that know very well that many of the great crosses made back then weren't off the sires they were claimed to be off of. I think many times when this old pre-DNA semen is used and pups sold, the buyers are more interested in having that old blood on new papers. The pup and how they turn out is an afterthought, it's the pedigree that counts. As for how those pups turn out? Well we learned a long time ago that pups off two dogs nobody ever heard of will win as often as the big name crosses. It is the same crapshoot either way. The paper is the only thing that is different.
I have no idea how honest that old semen out there is, it may all be exactly as claimed. I don't really care and I doubt the buyers do either.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

old semen

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Well here's tha thing Tom. Anyone your age is likely well aware of how things were done back in the pre-DNA age. There are alot of our senior breeders still around today that know very well that many of the great crosses made back then weren't off the sires they were claimed to be off of. I think many times when this old pre-DNA semen is used and pups sold, the buyers are more interested in having that old blood on new papers. The pup and how they turn out is an afterthought, it's the pedigree that counts. As for how those pups turn out? Well we learned a long time ago that pups off two dogs nobody ever heard of will win as often as the big name crosses. It is the same crapshoot either way. The paper is the only thing that is different.
I have no idea how honest that old semen out there is, it may all be exactly as claimed. I don't really care and I doubt the buyers do either.

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btt

The sad thing is the dogs before DNA were better in a lot of ways becouse the breeders could put into the mix what they thought they needed to make a better hound.
Another sad thing is the papers didn't show what they added to get the better hound. So there is no record of what they did. LOL

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Semen Collected

I know of a dog that semen was collected and frozen in mid 1980's. They did gets pups from it but none were of any account. Who knows why. Dog was a field trial dog named Chrome Wheels, Greyhound cross probably the best hall Of fame stud of that period.

For What it is worth, Jeff A.

btt

Oakie Dog

I agree there are alot of registered dogs that have a mix in there to correct a fault or improve a certain area. Can't do that with DNA.

Jeff A.