UKC Forums - Qustion for the Experts

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Posted by Frank M on 05-31-2009 06:50 PM:

Qustion for the Experts

Dog C is struck and treed on the way to the tree dog A comes into tree and is struck and treed dog B is never struck or treed. When we get to the tree dogs A and B are treeing dog C is no where around and takes minus for leaving tree, Dog A is on a circle tree the qustion is what happens to dog B? The MOH ended up scratching this dog for the handler not striking his dog.

What should have happened in this situation?

Posted by Dan Reuter on 05-31-2009 07:03 PM:

Dog C -125
Dog A delete strike circle 75 tree
Dog B assigned 50 strike and then minused for not calling on or after 3rd bark.

Posted by ransom1 on 05-31-2009 07:07 PM:

correct answer

i do beleive dan reuter is coorect in his answer.

Posted by Herbie Manns on 05-31-2009 07:09 PM:

rules

the big ? is did dog c tree the wrong dog the answer is no 1st offence 2nd offence yes I think

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Posted by Cody Carroll on 05-31-2009 07:57 PM:

dog A= circle strike and tree. no longer deleted.
dog B= assign 50 and minus. scratched next offense.
dog C= 125-

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Posted by on 05-31-2009 08:33 PM:

I agree with Cody.
Mr Rueter, why did you delete dog A's strike?

Posted by longshot on 05-31-2009 11:25 PM:

Jim , is dog A's strike scoreable since the dog that shut him out has left ,,or are you calling it a differant tree?

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Posted by MikeO on 05-31-2009 11:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cody Carroll
dog A= circle strike and tree. no longer deleted.
dog B= assign 50 and minus. scratched next offense.
dog C= 125-

correct answer.

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Posted by Dan Reuter on 06-01-2009 12:20 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I agree with Cody.
Mr Rueter, why did you delete dog A's strike?

Dog A was shut out on this tree.

Posted by rance56 on 06-01-2009 12:26 AM:

if you give dog a his strike points then you must move his tree points up to 125 and we all know that is not happening. I agree with Dan

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Posted by 1deadeye on 06-01-2009 12:59 AM:

Big question, was the 5 up?
Scott

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Posted by Blue Ice on 06-01-2009 01:10 AM:

Thought you said

it was a circle tree there were no coon seen. Dog C would get minus for leaving the tree and if it is no where to be found then put the 8 on dog C. Dog A which you say is a circle tree gets his circle points. Far as scratching dog B MOH had no right in doing. The handler should have gotten a warning for not calling his dog and he should have not received any minus since it was a circle tree. To me I give him next spot on the tree and draw line through it nothing was seen. If there would have been a coon seen he would have received his minus. Handler still warned for not calling his dog. I maybe wrong be and if I am I am sure you pro's will tell me.

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Posted by on 06-01-2009 01:10 AM:

You can't be shut out by a dog that has left the tree. For one thing, you have no way of knowing if dog A covered the shutout tree because dog C left. So you can't delete Dog A's strike.

Posted by Dan Reuter on 06-01-2009 01:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
You can't be shut out by a dog that has left the tree. For one thing, you have no way of knowing if dog A covered the shutout tree because dog C left. So you can't delete Dog A's strike.

If we don't know it is the same tree you saying the tree points should be moved up as well? Why would the tree points stay the same if it is not the same tree?

Posted by on 06-01-2009 01:26 AM:

You can't move the tree points up for the same reason you can't consider dog A shutout.......because you don't know where dog C was treed. You don't know because he left before they ever got to him. For all we know he was never even treed. Saying "tree Dog A" doesn't mean dog is treed, it just means his handler has declared him treed.

Posted by Cody Carroll on 06-01-2009 01:29 AM:

the only way a dogs strike stays deleted is if he is treed with the dog that shut him out. in this case he is not with that dog so his strike is scored

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Posted by longshot on 06-01-2009 01:58 AM:

Re: Thought you said

quote:
Originally posted by Blue Ice
Far as scratching dog B MOH had no right in doing. The handler should have gotten a warning for not calling his dog and he should have not received any minus since it was a circle tree. To me I give him next spot on the tree and draw line through it nothing was seen. If there would have been a coon seen he would have received his minus. Handler still warned for not calling his dog. I maybe wrong be and if I am I am sure you pro's will tell me.

Blue Ice , I'm sure no expert , but 1st offence in failing to strike a dog is '' points awarded and minused ..'' .. Rule 4(J)

2nd offence is a scratch.. Rule 6(E)

If the dog is barking , he has to be declared stuck,, even if it gets a line under it in being shut out.

His tree points would be minused on off game or slick only.

Have a good day.

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Posted by skyblu on 06-01-2009 02:03 AM:

Possibly

Could be the wrong dog was struck & treed in the very beginning.
But I realize that wasn't the question here - the description at the tree raises that possibility though.

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Posted by Frank M on 06-01-2009 02:17 AM:

More Info

It took us almost 15 minutes to get to the tree, so the 5 was up. Dog C was treed and IMHO run off the tree but I can't prove this, she has a uncommon tree bark and was heard by more than just the handler (me) on the tree, the judge also heard her or said he did any how.

Dogs A and B where split about 20 yards apart, dog B had a coon and dog A was circled.

This call from the MOH cost the guy with the B dog a NiteCh win, witch went to dog A.

The 8 was put on Dog C, she opened up and the other 2 dogs where cut back to her. Dogs C and A ended up on another circle tree (I hate leave's on trees smaller tree's).

This whole cast was messed up IMHO right from the get go. The judge walked over an hour of hunt time off going to split tree's. I Believe time out should have been called going from 1 tree to the next.

Posted by rance56 on 06-01-2009 02:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
You can't move the tree points up for the same reason you can't consider dog A shutout.......because you don't know where dog C was treed. You don't know because he left before they ever got to him. For all we know he was never even treed. Saying "tree Dog A" doesn't mean dog is treed, it just means his handler has declared him treed.

when he strikes and trees dog A, you are going to put 75 strike with a line under it, and 75 tree. so when you get to the tree how can you justify circling the stike points(which means he didnt tree with dog C for these points to be awarded and not a line through) and not moving him up to 125 tree(because if he wasnt on the same tree as dog C, which awarding the strike points means he wasnt, he deserves 125 for first tree).

i guess this could be a situation where the rules supercedes logic, but it just seems circling the stike but awarding only 75 tree points contradict each other.

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Posted by longshot on 06-01-2009 02:45 AM:

Rance 56 makes a good point , but what Jim is saying is you have to judge on what you ''know '' for sure..

The dog that had 1st tree is now gone , so the shut out dogs strike points now count. The 1st treed dog is not at the tree , this we know for sure..

The reason the tree points are not moved up is because we dont '' know'' for sure which tree the 1st treed dog was on...

I hope that helps.. lol.. It does seem like a contradiction.. lol

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Posted by PlottChaser on 06-01-2009 04:27 AM:

I was thinking about getting into the comp hunts soon because I've got a couple hounds that I think could do the job (I have always been a pleasure hunter). But it's stuff like this that makes me think twice about getting into it...LOL!!

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Posted by Dale Young on 06-01-2009 04:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Plott Chaser
I was thinking about getting into the comp hunts soon because I've got a couple hounds that I think could do the job (I have always been a pleasure hunter). But it's stuff like this that makes me think twice about getting into it...LOL!!

What was once quite simple ( strike- tree, plus-circle- minus ) , it appears you now need a lawer for a handler.

Posted by Gordy Sebert on 06-01-2009 04:42 PM:

very well put dale

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Posted by on 06-01-2009 04:57 PM:

I've always said the comp hunts aren't for eveyone. If you are the type that is going in there expecting a problem, you will very likely have a problem. I like to sit in the clubhouse and watch the casts come back. Did it a couple hours last Saturday at an RQE. It was a typical hunt, 99% walked in with a smile even though 75% of them got beat.
I would love to be able to hunt in every state just to see if it is that way everywhere. I'm betting it is.

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