UKC Forums - Hunt Test rule clarification?

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Posted by Blue Iron on 09-12-2011 08:10 PM:

Hunt Test rule clarification?

I went to a Hunt Test this weekend and had a blast, but I have one question. At the bottom of the Hunt Test "rules" the club printed out and gave to everyone it said something to the effect of "Inspectors may not swap inspecting 2 or 3 dogs in one night" I can't find where it says that anywhere on the UKC website. The people running the test were under the impression that meant 3 people who didn't know or hunt with each other couldn't judge each other's dogs. I.E. Dog A could judge dog B and dog B couldn't judge dog C and dog C couldn't judge dog A.

We wound up all 3 going together and the club president inspected all 3 dogs. This is where the problem is, if we would have had 2 or 3 more people show up we wouldn't have had enough "non hunting" inspectors, or guides. I can understand Dog A and Dog B not being able to judge each other, but why with 3 dogs couldn't all 3 judge a seperate dog?

I hope I've explained this clearly, and I wish I could find, or remember verbatim what it said on the rules sheet.

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Posted by Buckshot on 09-12-2011 08:27 PM:

Inspectors

This is a key element to the program, as the future success of any program hinges on its integrity. Every effort has been made to prevent the buddy system from playing a part, while at the same time not making this so restrictive that it would not be feasible for clubs to do. Inspectors need not be licensed to evaluate dogs in a hunt test. They must be able to sign the evaluation form in agreement to three key elements. First, they may not have bred, trained, or housed the dog they are evaluating, and may not be a regular hunting partner of the owner or handler of the dog they are evaluating. They must be able to agree to the statement that they have been an active coon hunting participant for at least five years, and able to identify the criteria for evaluating working coonhounds. And finally, they must sign a release that the evaluation is true and accurate to the best of their ability, and that they acknowledge the fact that any misrepresentation on the part of the inspector is punishable by UKC sanctions.

Though the role of the inspector is much the same as a non-hunting judge in the nite hunts, it is not believed that clubs will have nearly as much problem lining up inspectors as non-hunting judges. Because the event is not based on heads-up competition between four handlers, the job of evaluating coonhounds under this format is much easier than the role of a non-hunting judge on a nite hunt cast. The whole program was designed to closely simulate a one-dog pleasure hunt with two or three hunting buddies. The evaluation process is neither complicated nor confrontational, which should make lining up inspectors a fairly easy process.

Posted by Slough on 09-12-2011 08:44 PM:

9. It is not permissible for two or three individuals to swap inspections on any given night.

Found on Hunt test evaluation rules sheet.

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Posted by l.lyle on 09-12-2011 09:06 PM:

Not sure I get it. Does that apply to 4 or 5 individuals?.

Posted by Blue Iron on 09-12-2011 09:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Slough
9. It is not permissible for two or three individuals to swap inspections on any given night.

Found on Hunt test evaluation rules sheet.

That's what I was looking for. Now does that mean I can't guide 2 people and myself and I'm dog Dog A, I inspect Dog B, Dog B inspects Dog C and Dog C inspects Dog A?

Posted by Slough on 09-12-2011 10:12 PM:

Maybe TK will come on here tomorrow and give a clarification.

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Posted by Blue Iron on 09-13-2011 05:00 PM:

Top

Posted by Tim Trone on 09-13-2011 05:14 PM:

WE had a heck of a time finding inspectors also . we had 8 dogs show up and 3 extra people showed up but they had to make a call to find another person . luckily they found someone

Posted by Virgil on 09-13-2011 05:37 PM:

Say for example I went and inspected three dogs. Could I then hunt my female and have someone who spectated on another dog inspect mine.

Or is it not possible for someone who inspects to run their dog the same night.

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Posted by Todd K / UKC on 09-13-2011 05:43 PM:

Sorry. Meant to answer this last night before I left. Where rule 9 suggests that 2 or 3 hunters cannot swap inspections, that means that they cannot do an inspection for someone that has done one for them on any given night. The inspector guideline on the front of the evaluation form also says the same thing.

For the time being we have said it is acceptable for you to send out three guys in a group. Handler A can inspect Handler B's dog. Handler B can inspect Handler C's dog. And handler C can inspect Handler A's dog. To do this in accordance with the rule, the handler that is not hunting a dog or inspecting should remain at the truck.

I know that may sound trivial that one hunter stay at the truck but you have to remember we are simply making every attempt to keep this program as honest as we possibly can to protect the integrity of the HTX certificate. So far I think it is working out very well !

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Posted by poolecw on 09-13-2011 06:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by todd kellam
Sorry. Meant to answer this last night before I left. Where rule 9 suggests that 2 or 3 hunters cannot swap inspections, that means that they cannot do an inspection for someone that has done one for them on any given night. The inspector guideline on the front of the evaluation form also says the same thing.

For the time being we have said it is acceptable for you to send out three guys in a group. Handler A can inspect Handler B's dog. Handler B can inspect Handler C's dog. And handler C can inspect Handler A's dog. To do this in accordance with the rule, the handler that is not hunting a dog or inspecting should remain at the truck.

I know that may sound trivial that one hunter stay at the truck but you have to remember we are simply making every attempt to keep this program as honest as we possibly can to protect the integrity of the HTX certificate. So far I think it is working out very well !

Just to clarify...only one dog is hunted (or "inspected") at a time, right? the purpose of this program is to validate that a dog can tree a coon by himself...

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Posted by Slough on 09-13-2011 06:43 PM:

Thanks TK

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Posted by rmcmillan on 09-13-2011 06:48 PM:

THANKS TODD FOR CLEARING THAT UP. I HUNTED ON ONE TEST LIKE YOU DESCRIBED AND THAT IS HOW IT WAS DONE. ONE HUNTER ACTUALLY SAT AT TRUCK TO KEEP OTHER DOGS QUIET. IT WORKED OUT GOOD FOR US.

BUT ONE QUESTION, WHY WOULD YOU NOT WANT THE THIRD HANDLER TO WALK ALONG ON TEST? TO ME IT WOULD BE HARDER TO GIVE SOMEONE A FREE PASS IF THERE WOULD BE SOMEONE ELSE ON TEST.

MUST ADMIT I HAVE HUNTED ON SEVERAL OF THESE TESTS AND HAVE HAD A GOOD TIME. GOOD DOGS AND GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP. ALSO GOT TO HUNT AT A FEW LOCATIONS I HAVE NEVER BEEN TO. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

HOPE MORE CLUB WILL START TO HOLD THEM.

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Posted by Todd K / UKC on 09-13-2011 07:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rmcmillan
BUT ONE QUESTION, WHY WOULD YOU NOT WANT THE THIRD HANDLER TO WALK ALONG ON TEST? TO ME IT WOULD BE HARDER TO GIVE SOMEONE A FREE PASS IF THERE WOULD BE SOMEONE ELSE ON TEST.

Good point.

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Posted by Blue Iron on 09-13-2011 08:04 PM:

Thanks Todd, that's the way I thought it was, but the club putting it on wasn't sure, so they sent the President to inspect all 3 dogs, which worked fine, but we would have been in a pickle if there would have been another dog or 2.

Posted by Todd K / UKC on 09-13-2011 08:14 PM:

We need to make it as easy as we can on clubs without sacrificing the quality of the program. Always willing to listen if anyone has suggestions. It seems like the clubs that are holding them are enjoying it. Starting to see quite a few dogs with HTX certificates. I think we have an HTX10 now!

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Posted by Blue Iron on 09-13-2011 08:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by todd kellam
We need to make it as easy as we can on clubs without sacrificing the quality of the program. Always willing to listen if anyone has suggestions. It seems like the clubs that are holding them are enjoying it. Starting to see quite a few dogs with HTX certificates. I think we have an HTX10 now!

I know the 3 of us that hunted had a blast! Maybe change the wording a little bit and include "can't inspect each others dogs" or something to that effect, because the way it's worded does leave room for doubt on exactly what it means.

Posted by Casey on 09-14-2011 02:58 AM:

regular

"may not be a regular hunting partner of the owner or handler of the dog they are evaluating"

I think REGULAR needs to be defined. A lot of people in the area have hunted together at some point. We need a number like an average of once a week or once a month, or once a year and is it justing refering to pleasure hunts.

Just trying to make it easier when picking inspectors.

Posted by Todd K / UKC on 09-14-2011 01:53 PM:

Re: regular

quote:
Originally posted by Casey
"may not be a regular hunting partner of the owner or handler of the dog they are evaluating"

I think REGULAR needs to be defined. A lot of people in the area have hunted together at some point. We need a number like an average of once a week or once a month, or once a year and is it justing refering to pleasure hunts.

Just trying to make it easier when picking inspectors.

Problem with a number....if you hunt every night and only hunt with Joe once a month, I would say he is not your regular hunting partner. But if you only hunt a couple times a month and you hunt with Joe, then I would say he is your hunting partner.

I understand what you are saying. In every small club everyone has hunted with everyone. Competition and pleasure. But most of you have a person or two that you hunt with more than anyone else. That person should not be inspecting your dog.

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Posted by rmcmillan on 09-14-2011 09:44 PM:

OUR CLUB HAS HAD A FEW WITHOUT A PROBLEM. SEEMS TO BE SOME INTEREST IN THEM. SURE HOPE SOME MORE CLUBS IN THIS AREA ARE GOING TO HOLD THEM. I HAVE BEEN IN SEVERAL THIS YEAR I HAVE ONE PASS AND SOME THAT I DID NOT. STILL HAD A GOOD TIME. HAVE HUNTED WITH SOME GUYS THAT I NEVER WALKED IN WOODS WITH BEFORE.

WHEN IRONING OUT THE RULES, KEEP IN MIND THE SMALL CLUBS WITH ONLY A HANDFULL OF MEMBERS WHO DO ANYTHING. REMEMBER MOST OF THESE HUNTERS, GUIDES AND JUDGES HAVE HUNTED TOGETHER SOMETIME. WEATHER IS WAS PLEASURE HUNTING, HTX AND COMPETITION.

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