UKC Forums - Scoring question

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Posted by danny buechler on 02-03-2016 04:12 PM:

Scoring question

I have a question for you all. Dog a strikes and gets treed. Wait the 5 and go to the tree when we arrive dog b is treeing with dog a. Since dog b is barking and never struck in I say the dog is scratched for not being struck in by the third bark. Am I right or missing something. Thanks

Posted by tpettit on 02-03-2016 05:07 PM:

Did the judge ask for a call on the second dog at any time?

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Posted by JiM on 02-03-2016 05:36 PM:

The rule says scratch on second offense. So, the judge would have to minus the dog whatever strike position is available, then, if the dog is not struck on or before the next three barks, he would scratch that dog.
You can't just say the dog has barked more than 6 times so he scratched. You got to minus and then scratch.

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Posted by Dan Dogs on 02-03-2016 05:43 PM:

JiM, sent you a pm

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Posted by danny buechler on 02-03-2016 06:07 PM:

This was just a tail gate discussion. Does the judge have to ask for a call or can he minus the strike points?

Posted by Rocketman55 on 02-03-2016 06:21 PM:

To be considered an HONORABLE person, worthy of judging a cast. The judge should first inform all cast members that dog B is being minused for failure to call on or before the third bark, after the first minute is up. Then his second offense would then warrant a scratching of the dog.

Though the rules do not dictate the number of decibels required when calling dogs struck or treed. It is the Honorable thing to do to make the call in a fashion that all participants can hear, so as to reduce the possibility of underhanded pushing of the pencil, that may benefit the judge.

It just simply helps to keep all the scoring on the UP and UP so that all involved have a full understanding of the outcome.

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Posted by krazyassndn on 02-03-2016 06:24 PM:

when im judging and I hear a dog bark without a call I count out loud till third bark then when I find out whos dog it was I minus it the second time i scratch them

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Posted by ThatBlueDog on 02-03-2016 06:43 PM:

This kind of extends the question asked....if one dog is struck in and another opens it barks three times still no call judge minuses it but no one is willing to say it's there dog. How do you find out whose dog it is to minus?

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Posted by GA DAWG on 02-03-2016 09:06 PM:

What if dog was shut out on strike and you didnt hear it till you got there anyhow. You cant minus something that aint there to begin with. Can ya?

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Posted by danny buechler on 02-03-2016 09:29 PM:

That is exactly what I am taking about

Posted by Allen / UKC on 02-03-2016 09:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
What if dog was shut out on strike and you didnt hear it till you got there anyhow. You cant minus something that aint there to begin with. Can ya?

The fact that a dog is shut out on strike doesn't matter. Any dog still needs to be struck on or before the third bark (after the first minute). If shut out then the dog wouldn't have any strike points to minus but it changes nothing else. And it would also still be considered first offense. Does that make sense?

Posted by CHEWBACH on 02-03-2016 09:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
The fact that a dog is shut out on strike doesn't matter. Any dog still needs to be struck on or before the third bark (after the first minute). If shut out then the dog wouldn't have any strike points to minus but it changes nothing else. And it would also still be considered first offense. Does that make sense?

Does to me!! always strike!!

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Posted by JiM on 02-03-2016 09:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
The fact that a dog is shut out on strike doesn't matter. Any dog still needs to be struck on or before the third bark (after the first minute). If shut out then the dog wouldn't have any strike points to minus but it changes nothing else. And it would also still be considered first offense. Does that make sense?

And if they want stand there and argue about it, that is fine but while they are standing there arguing, their hunt just ended for second offense failure to strike their dog on or before........

Posted by GA DAWG on 02-03-2016 09:55 PM:

Im just talking about that first strike where say if it was struck you'd minus it. In this case you'd still strike but not be minused anything correct because their is nothing there.

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Posted by johnny reb on 02-04-2016 01:22 AM:

You will still get minuses next available strike position.

Posted by joey on 02-04-2016 01:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ThatBlueDog
This kind of extends the question asked....if one dog is struck in and another opens it barks three times still no call judge minuses it but no one is willing to say it's there dog. How do you find out whose dog it is to minus?

You know what the dog sounded like. So when it is claimed you know who to minus. Being a good judge is not only knowing the rules and how to apply them, you also need to be a good dog man. Thats missing with a lot of people.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 02-04-2016 02:02 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by johnny reb
You will still get minuses next available strike position.

Aint no strike points available if your shut out. None can be had. So you cant minus strike on a shut out dog.

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Posted by joey on 02-04-2016 02:42 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
Aint no strike points available if your shut out. None can be had. So you cant minus strike on a shut out dog.

You can for not being struck in. You are not "scoring" his points you are assigning them to him.

Posted by Allen / UKC on 02-05-2016 02:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
The fact that a dog is shut out on strike doesn't matter. Any dog still needs to be struck on or before the third bark (after the first minute). If shut out then the dog wouldn't have any strike points to minus but it changes nothing else. And it would also still be considered first offense. Does that make sense?

Hey guys, I stand corrected on the specific statement above (If shut out then the dog wouldn't have any strike points to minus but it changes nothing else.). That is not correct.

Joey is spot on in that this scenario is not a matter of scoring Dog Bs' points on a tree. Not yet. First things first. We have a dog that has opened more than three times but has not been declared struck. Section 4(d) specifically states "will result in those points being awarded and minused". This rule takes precedence over anything else, such as "treeing on a tree shut out on".

Now after taking care of the "not declared struck" issue, you deal with the next scenario, which is; scoring the tree.

How you further score Dog B is based on how the tree is scored. Now is when Dog B has no strike points to minus or circle, because he is shut out on this tree.

My bad for missing this in my first response.

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