UKC Forums - pedigree wizards....potential cross

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Posted by ICB on 02-15-2013 08:13 PM:

pedigree wizards....potential cross

I know most of this blood....some I dont. Just wonder what most of you think of this. Think it might be worth a shot? Heavy Jet Seven/Will, Smokey River Dancer, 1/4 Shockey.

........................GRNITECH Northern Blue Jet V
................GRNITECH Meads Super Jet 6
.........................Whites Blue Sue
.....GRNITECH Iron Creek Will
.........................NITECH Warrior Creek CW
...............Yarbrough's Blue Bess
.........................NITECH Meads Blue Bess
FATHER OF CROSS
.............................GRNITECH Northern Blue Jet V
.........................GRNITECH Meads Super Jet 6
..............................Whites Blue Sue
.................GRNITECH Meads Blue Jet Seven
..............................NITECH Warrior Creek CW
.........................Yarbrough's Blue Bess
..............................NITECH Meads Blue Bess
..... NITECH Crooked Creek Jets Blue Boots
..............................NITECH Smokey River JBS Cheif
.........................CH GRNITECH Smokey River Cheifs BL Dancer
..............................Harlins OK Blu Punkin
..................Hector's Smokin Jet Blue Bess(Heyde BessII)
..............................NITECH Warrior Creek CW
.........................Heyde's Jet Blue Bess
..............................NITECH Meads Blue Bess II

PUPS
.........................GRNTCH PR Sandberg’s Joe
................GRNTCH PR Buck Creek Blue Zek
.........................NTCH CH PR Ackerman’s Treeing Blue Puff
.....GRNTCH PR Horton Creek Shockey
.........................GRNTCH PR Coz’ Spare Time Spanky
................PR Horton Creek Denna II
.........................PR Horton Creek Denna
MOTHER OF CROSS
..............................GRNITECH Northern Blue Jet V
.........................GRNITECH Meads Super Jet 6
..............................Whites Blue Sue
.................GRNITECH Meads Blue Jet Seven
..............................NITECH Warrior Creek CW
.........................Yarbrough's Blue Bess
..............................NITECH Meads Blue Bess
..... CH NITECH Wolf Creek Blue Faith
..............................NITECH Smokey River JBS Cheif
.........................CH GRNITECH Smokey River Cheifs BL Dancer
..............................Harlins OK Blu Punkin
..................Hector's Smokin Jet Blue Bess(Heyde BessII)
..............................NITECH Warrior Creek CW
.........................Heyde's Jet Blue Bess
..............................NITECH Meads Blue Bess II

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Posted by Blacklabel on 02-16-2013 01:00 AM:

Ok perfect example ......

Throw some papers away and lets talk qualities your looking for and what the dogs have or seem to be reproducing.

No trying to hijack, just think there is more then papers.

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Posted by ICB on 02-16-2013 03:19 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Blacklabel
Ok perfect example ......

Throw some papers away and lets talk qualities your looking for and what the dogs have or seem to be reproducing.

No trying to hijack, just think there is more then papers.

You might be right. ;-)

I was assuming both parents to be coondogs.

When it all comes down to it it is just a crap shoot. I've seen the best bred to the best...crosses everyone thought would work...drop out a dozen worthless pups.

I've also made crosses where I have been told not to make the cross and had it produce excellent.(true world class pups and high percentage litters)

There are a lot of guys on here that are familiar with the blood in question. Just wondered if some thought it was too tight or if similar cousin to cousin crosses like this had made some good crosses.

Personally I dont like to get too tight, and I think this might be a good line bred cross with just enough outcross.

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Posted by Wayne Valentino on 02-16-2013 12:10 PM:

looks

sweet on paper, I'd try it.. as was already discussed, papers don't tree coon they are simply a tool... If the parents have all the tools, try it.. If they don't, don't do it.. We never need more Blueticks, just better Blueticks...

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Posted by cwbluebio on 02-16-2013 02:57 PM:

Don't throw away the papers

I do not know anything about the blood in the dogs. I have however had some success with their heritage. My 1st question is - hunting style, which line do they hunt like? 2nd-Do you know a typical Jet or Smokey River Cheif type of dog when you hunt with one? 3rd-Are the two dogs you wish to cross similar in hunting style? I have hunted with several dogs listed in the 2 dogs you are considering on breeding pedigrees'. On paper the possibilities look good. The Warrior Creek CW dog is listed 5 times in the pedigrees you posted. The CW dog was Blue Bio Blue Jet until I sold him to Heyward Douglas (under current UKC policys his name could not have changed) Some of the greatest success and some outstanding hounds have come about by crosses on him to a female out of Coz Sparetime Spanky. Remember Jet 7 and Iron Will are littermates. If the 2 dogs you are planning on crossing hunt more like the Smokey River Cheif dogs then go that direction with your breeding. If you are not sure of the style or lines then make it your business to familarize yourself with them. If you are not willing to do that, then don't breed them and just go buy a pup from someone who knows their own dogs and does do their homework. Best of luck, they are your dogs and you can do as you wish.

Posted by ICB on 02-18-2013 01:05 AM:

Re: Don't throw away the papers

quote:
Originally posted by cwbluebio
I do not know anything about the blood in the dogs. I have however had some success with their heritage. My 1st question is - hunting style, which line do they hunt like? 2nd-Do you know a typical Jet or Smokey River Cheif type of dog when you hunt with one? 3rd-Are the two dogs you wish to cross similar in hunting style? I have hunted with several dogs listed in the 2 dogs you are considering on breeding pedigrees'. On paper the possibilities look good. The Warrior Creek CW dog is listed 5 times in the pedigrees you posted. The CW dog was Blue Bio Blue Jet until I sold him to Heyward Douglas (under current UKC policys his name could not have changed) Some of the greatest success and some outstanding hounds have come about by crosses on him to a female out of Coz Sparetime Spanky. Remember Jet 7 and Iron Will are littermates. If the 2 dogs you are planning on crossing hunt more like the Smokey River Cheif dogs then go that direction with your breeding. If you are not sure of the style or lines then make it your business to familarize yourself with them. If you are not willing to do that, then don't breed them and just go buy a pup from someone who knows their own dogs and does do their homework. Best of luck, they are your dogs and you can do as you wish.

CW,

I owned the Bess female out of Blue Bio Blue Jet. (Heyde's Jet Blue Bess) As Jet Seven and Iron Will were Littermates so were the Boots female and the Faith female, and Heyde Bess and Yarbroughs Bess listed in the pedigree. I am the one that welped the litter out of Jet Seven and my Bess II female. I sold my Bess II female to a close by friend and he changed her name to Hector's Bess. This was before the new rule changes on names being changable.

I knew a lot about CW(Jet) from Ed and Rick. I booked my old Bess female(out of Ed's Bess II) about 2 or 3 weeks after the mating happened. If you look back through the 95 - 2000 or so blue books you will see a pic of Bess in the 95 yearbook(or real close to 95), and a lot of the off spring out of Bess and Indigo (my double chief bred female that was 3rd on the reproducers list for several years).

I don't own either of the "potential" parents in the "potential" cross listed above. If this cross ever happens it is gonna take a lot of work to get it done. I have never hunted with the potential father or mother but am relying on info from many of the guys on this board who have also bred this line and hunted with the parents themselves. Trying to do as much homework as possible before I waste any gas or money to inspect possible dogs myself.

The Shockey portion is what I know the least about. I hunted with Seven a lot at Ed's. The first time I hunted with him I felt like I could have done a decent job handling him because my old Bess and Seven were about as identical on mouth, track, and tree as any two Jet dogs I had ever hunted with. The smokey river chief in this pedigree is my doing so I know the entire crosses pretty well.

Thanks, Kevin Heyde
PS The old Bess blood is what I am most interested in in these papers.

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Posted by no mo blue on 02-18-2013 03:22 PM:

Shockey

Hello Kevin, One thing for sure about this pedigree Shockey Dang sure won't be the WEAK link. Give Mitch Mueller a call and he will fill you in on Shockey and his pup's. Ole Mitch is a straight shooter. Best female I've owned came from Mitch's place. Thank's, Jim

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Posted by ICB on 02-19-2013 03:21 PM:

Jim,

Good to hear from ya. I had been up to Mitch's a long time ago and I knew he always had top hounds. Hope I didn't make it sound like I thought Shockey would be a weak link. That part of the pedigree was what I had the least personal on the ground, in the woods experience with. I have had a lot of guys contact me on how much they liked their Shockey pups. This is why I started this thread was to maybe gain some insight as to whether or not there had been any crosses made out there that would have been real similar to this or not.

Kevin

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Posted by ICB on 02-20-2013 02:22 PM:

Blue Bio Blue Jet

CW,

I was looking back through the 96 BBOA bluebook and noticed that I was even promoting Blue Bio Blue Jet as a stud dog. ;-)

Kevin

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Posted by ICB on 03-14-2013 08:00 PM:

another Boots cross

Here is another cross that has been made.(not by me)

Just wondering if anyone knows about any of the pups out of this cross and how the are doing where they are at etc.

.....................................Nitech GRCH Northern Blue Hammer XVII
................................GRNITECH GRCH Northern Blue Hammer XVIII
.....................................CH Northern Blue Missy Anne
.........................NGRNC GRNITECH Treeslammin Blue Hillbilly
......................................NITECH CC Hossier Stone
...................................NITECH Treeslammin Blue Queen
.......................................Meads Blue Betty
.....GRNITECH JET V AGAIN
..........................................GRNITECH Northern Blue Jet IV
.....................................GRNITECH Northern Blue Jet V
...........................................NITECH Hoosier C.C. Lady II
.............................NITECH Treeslammin Blue Lady
...........................................NITECH Badlands Blue Boomer
.......................................NITECH Badlands Blue Lady II
............................................Battle Creek Lady

PUPS

............................................GRNITECH Northern Blue Jet V
.......................................GRNITECH Meads Super Jet 6
............................................Whites Blue Sue
...............................GRNITECH Meads Blue Jet Seven
.............................................NITECH Warrior Creek CW
.........................................Yarbrough's Blue Bess
.............................................NITECH Meads Blue Bess
..... NITECH Crooked Creek Jets Blue Boots
..............................................NITECH Smokey River JBS Cheif
..................................CH GRNITECH Smokey River Cheifs BL Dancer
.............................................Harlins OK Blu Punkin
................................Hector's Smokin Jet Blue Bess
...............................................NITECH Warrior Creek CW
...........................................Heyde's Jet Blue Bess
................................................NITECH Meads Blue Bess II

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Posted by Fred Harroun on 03-15-2013 12:08 AM:

hey kevin if you go to the shockey thread there is a pic in there od my diamond female who is out of shockey and faith

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Posted by C.C. Blues on 03-15-2013 04:38 AM:

Kevin I only know of one out of the five again x boots cross which I think I told you about. A buddy of mine has him that lives an hr north of me. Nice hound he is a 3yr old and may be able to be bought but not real sure bout that

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Posted by cwbluebio on 03-15-2013 02:18 PM:

Hey Kevin

After Jet 6 died (would have bred to him if it had been possible) I bred Flower, 6 Again's mother, to V Again. My May Flower female is from that cross. She is currently bred to Gr Ch Nt Ch Mead's Blue Rejet. May Flower has two wins towards grand night and is a grand show champion. You had some real good results from the crosses you made with these Jet bred dogs. Regardless of what anyone says-a cross has to be made to find out if it worked. No one set rule of thumb when it comes to crosses will work. I also bred Becky (Hillbilly X Treeslammin Lady) to 6 Again-which on the pedigree reverses the ancestors. We also took a littermate to Jet 8 and bred her to 6 Again. Treeslammin Lady's last litter was from 6 Again and I have a female here from that cross. If you get the cross you are talking about made let me know. When I can help give me a shout and good luck.

Posted by scott shaw on 03-16-2013 04:19 PM:

If Boots was anything like her sister Faith and knowing quite a bit about Iron Will and Shockey I think this could be a super cross that I would definetly get a
pup out of if I could still hunt. In thirty years of coonhunting I've
been lucky to be able to hunt a few "special" dogs and Faith was
one of them!

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Posted by ICB on 03-19-2013 04:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by scott shaw
If Boots was anything like her sister Faith and knowing quite a bit about Iron Will and Shockey I think this could be a super cross that I would definetly get a
pup out of if I could still hunt. In thirty years of coonhunting I've
been lucky to be able to hunt a few "special" dogs and Faith was
one of them!

Scott,

Not sure the cross at the top of the page will ever happen, but Faith has a pup out of Shockey named Diamond. She is owned by Fred Harroun. He is planning on breeding her to Perry's Tuff dog. I am hoping to get a nice female out of this cross. If I do then I may cross her back on Tharp's luther(Will x Boots) or Brett Winn's dog(Jet 5 again x Boots). Time will tell.....long ways down the road. I have heard a lot of good about Boots and several of her pups.

Fred even mentioned going back on Gauge with one of these. That would be bringing To Tuff Betty back in again. Lots of options out there.

If you go to the last page(page 7) of the thread below you can see Diamond on the wood. Page 4 also has the same pics and a couple more of her on the bench.

http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...mp;pagenumber=7

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Posted by scott shaw on 03-19-2013 05:48 PM:

I talked to Fred a couple years ago about Diamond. Faith looks like Diamond but a little darker and bigger by the way the picture looks. She is a nice made 70lb. female. The first hunt I took her
to at a year old she won best of show and first in the hunt in a terrible thunderstorm. She got another first in a Feb. hunt on 8 inches of frozen snow. She then won third in a R.Q.E. hunting
against 2 GR.NT. and a NT.CH. to finish her. Put one of her NT.CH.
wins on her at Blue Nationals and she won her cast at Autumn Oaks that year with Insane Jane in the cast who won the World
Hunt 2 weeks later. Also the second night of the Blue Nationals
had the cast won but with two minutes left she treed close to us by herself
and we heard her fall out of the tree. She was hurt and the two minutes got her and lost the cast by 25 points and Queen of hunt .

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