UKC Forums - Cast question

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-- Cast question (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928502034)

Posted by joey on 03-23-2018 02:24 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar

I always on trees that are very close together say all together boys or split before we shine then if they don't touch your still ok you can score them split.

Tar

Ukc policy on it works well. The judge shine and decides if it's one or two first before shine time starts. Unless it's questioned it's how he calls it.

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Posted by yadkintar on 03-23-2018 02:34 AM:

And then the voting starts and they can out vote the judge I would rather get it out of the way first judge nowadays means you get to keep score and listen to them gripe majority rules Joey.

Tar

Posted by joey on 03-23-2018 06:24 AM:

I've done it 100 times and never had a problem. When you start taking votes on stuff before there is even a question is when you start having problems. I never ask for a vote on anything but scoring a tree and calling time. I'm not being a jerk it's just the best way to keep control of the cast with put it getting out of hand and every call you make being questioned.

Posted by yadkintar on 03-23-2018 10:21 AM:

Well Joey call ukc tomorrow and ask them if I have ever had a problem the way I judge or moh in all these years. And I promise I have set behind that table as much as anybody. I take care of my own business if more people set behind that table they would get a good education jest of it is now unless I have to I am just like you and Richard I just go where I want to when I want to and and let the big doggies handle it ................. I am retired !!!!

You don't have worry about being told you done it wrong if you never do it.

Tar

Posted by Lance Laymon on 03-23-2018 12:10 PM:

My intentions were not to place blame on anyone or make someone look bad. I know the judge messed up by not declaring it one or two trees to begin with. I was curious how the right way to have handled the situation was. Thanks for all the opinions as you can tell it was a bad break for one guy. I guess it was handled about as well as it could have been with the way things went down.

Posted by yadkintar on 03-23-2018 01:55 PM:

Hey don't pay us no mind we don't ever agree on nothing lol. But what you did get was different ways to look at it and that's always good don't think that any of these guys that commented on this when you draw them don't have a good battle plan in place and that they ain't competitive it's a game you either play to win or loose they ain't nobody likes to loose very often.

Tar

Posted by Allen / UKC on 03-23-2018 02:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
I've done it 100 times and never had a problem. When you start taking votes on stuff before there is even a question is when you start having problems. I never ask for a vote on anything but scoring a tree and calling time. I'm not being a jerk it's just the best way to keep control of the cast with put it getting out of hand and every call you make being questioned.

And that's how it should be done. UKC's rules are such that the judge is in charge and responsible for making all calls, except for the well-documented "big three" that automatically go to a cast vote. 1) Scoring a tree plus, circle, or minus, 2) calling time out, and 3) whether or not it's a previously scored tree.

It's always been said that a strong judge stands up and makes the calls they are responsible to make. A weak judge turns to the cast for a vote on all situations. If we had everything to go to an automatic cast vote, there wouldn't be a need to assign a judge to any cast. Worse yet, we'd open ourselves up for a potential pile of problems. BTW- this was said long before my time and was proven to carry a lot of merit then and still does.

Posted by yadkintar on 03-23-2018 02:47 PM:

Ok Allen 3 to 1 vote against the judge what happens ?

Then you go back to the hunt director format and I don't know and I don't know x 3 it's a mess ! Every major hunt now days is having a mess agreed ? Because of the loopholes in these rules and that's because of the old farts that refuse to change them.

I love you man

Tar

Posted by Richard Lambert on 03-23-2018 03:07 PM:

Are the problems because of the so called loopholes in the rules or because of the handlers that try to twist the rules around and confuse everyone to give themselves an advantage? Maybe we should change the handlers and not the rules. Most of the so called loopholes or grey areas are there to let the handlers use common sense and experience in each situation. I guess that nowadays both of those are in short supply. Either that or some handlers just want to "use" those grey areas. And actually, it is not something new. It has been going on for a very long time. Just ask Mr Tarbaby. Y'all cry about changing the rules now but everyone just sucked it up and went on to the next weekend in the past.

Posted by Allen / UKC on 03-23-2018 03:15 PM:

Tar, you sure have a way to make things more complicated than they should be. lol.

Relax a little my friend. This system worked well for many years and no reason it shouldn't still work, if we take the time to assign the right judges. Regardless of a majority vote that over turn the judges decision, a solid hunting judge sure eliminates a lot of potential problems. That my friend, is a proven fact.

Posted by yadkintar on 03-23-2018 03:17 PM:

Richard whether the change rules or not it ain't going to effect me. But like I said the other day I know at least 10 guys down here that don't breed dogs they just hunt in the $$$ hunts and they don't register their dogs in ukc does that effect me nope but it's getting way more common every day. No interest in ukc' s programs !!! What to do I don't know but I would like to be at that rules committee table and set right across the table from Allen and Rick and give them the stink eye lol.

Tar

Posted by yadkintar on 03-23-2018 03:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Tar, you sure have a way to make things more complicated than they should be. lol.

Relax a little my friend. This system worked well for many years and no reason it shouldn't still work, if we take the time to assign the right judges. Regardless of a majority vote that over turn the judges decision, a solid hunting judge sure eliminates a lot of potential problems. That my friend, is a proven fact.

That's what me is trying to tell you without some added attractions I ain't got nobody to pick from either way hunt director or moh I am stuck at the clubhouse I can't even go teach these kids nothing.

Tar

Posted by Billy George on 03-23-2018 07:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
And that's how it should be done. UKC's rules are such that the judge is in charge and responsible for making all calls, except for the well-documented "big three" that automatically go to a cast vote. 1) Scoring a tree plus, circle, or minus, 2) calling time out, and 3) whether or not it's a previously scored tree.

It's always been said that a strong judge stands up and makes the calls they are responsible to make. A weak judge turns to the cast for a vote on all situations. If we had everything to go to an automatic cast vote, there wouldn't be a need to assign a judge to any cast. Worse yet, we'd open ourselves up for a potential pile of problems. BTW- this was said long before my time and was proven to carry a lot of merit then and still does.

Well I guess I'm a weak judge,.. but you left out "scratched for fighting" or is that up to a vote now....

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Posted by Donnie Stevens on 03-23-2018 07:54 PM:

Any call a hunting judge makes can be voted on AFTER he makes it. Allen listed the only situations that are open for a cast vote without a call the judge already made being questioned if anybody thinks it was scored wrong.

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Posted by yadkintar on 03-23-2018 08:21 PM:

Donnie 4 dog cast I am the judge I minuse a dog for moving 3 other guys said he didn't and vote same thing three guys see a coon I am the judge I don't they vote moh is going to go with the majority because he can't see it only thing that moh is good for is rule infractions and don't even get me started on the hunt director format.

Non hunting judge is different he doesn't have a dog in the fight.

I know how it's supposed to work buuuuuuuuut lol.

Tar

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 03-23-2018 08:41 PM:

Yes but if you start asking the cast how they want to score situations before you make a decision you might as well pass the card to whoever is talking the loudest because they are gonna control the cast.

Not too often you're gonna get a 3-1 vote against the judge unless the judge is wrong.

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Posted by Allen / UKC on 03-23-2018 08:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
Yes but if you start asking the cast how they want to score situations before you make a decision you might as well pass the card to whoever is talking the loudest because they are gonna control the cast.

Not too often you're gonna get a 3-1 vote against the judge unless the judge is wrong.

Well stated!

Posted by yadkintar on 03-23-2018 09:00 PM:

I just bark at them , slobber , talk to myself and beat my head on trees and eat dirt freaks them out they think I am crazy I have no problems.

Tar

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 03-23-2018 09:05 PM:

No wonder you get outvoted lol. I think you've hit your head one too many times maybe.

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Posted by yadkintar on 03-23-2018 09:17 PM:

Might be why I win a lot they can't concentrate with all that going on lol. No really all this might have happened a lot of years ago we just don't have problems what little dab of guys show up to hunt just have fun they win ok they don't ok. I don't ever even hear anything till I get on here but now when these guys go to a big hunt they are serious lol. I think most problems start when paid handlers are involved and being a butt Is a part of the strategy they aint there to make friends they are there for a paycheck a part of my life I don't miss.

Tar

Posted by joey on 03-23-2018 11:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Might be why I win a lot they can't concentrate with all that going on lol. No really all this might have happened a lot of years ago we just don't have problems what little dab of guys show up to hunt just have fun they win ok they don't ok. I don't ever even hear anything till I get on here but now when these guys go to a big hunt they are serious lol. I think most problems start when paid handlers are involved and being a butt Is a part of the strategy they aint there to make friends they are there for a paycheck a part of my life I don't miss.

Tar

Your right paid handlers tend to be a problem but not all of them. The ones that are normally the biggest problem are the guys that got a little to much pride in their dog. You have hunted with them before. the dogs are not treed until theirs is, he has never left tree, he has never run a deer on and on and on.

Posted by yadkintar on 03-23-2018 11:38 PM:

I might be wrong Joey I play the dummy but I know exactly how to twist that rule book that being said not something I am proud of. With Corey I could go out and teach him those things but I decided to let him learn on his own because it's all new and exciting to him he don't know about that other side of things what am saying maybe he would be better of not knowing. Now when I get on the soap box about things it ain't about me it's about the Corey's out there that we need to make sure this is going to be there for them and if I have to hurt feelings and challenge people to do their best and shame them to make it happen so be it it ain't about us old guys anymore. Hope you understand it ain't personal sometimes you have to challenge people to get their full potential. I have had several people in my life challenge me because of my lack of education. Three years ago I couldn't type my wife challenged me now I can type and have my GED. I couldn't text mike and Carson kept pestering me till I got it. That's just making me a better Robert hitt

Tar

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