Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 428

I had this happen on a RQE the other night. It was questioned and ruled on by the MOH, but I'm not for sure it was correct. I will attempt to make the situation clear.
A and B are struck with A being treed. When cast arrives both A and B are treeing. Judge tells both handlers to handle dogs with no one saying anything. Here is the Question. They are treeing on a clump of two trees about a foot apart at the base, but go in different directions. One dog was on one tree and the other was on the other. Without saying if they were split or together the cast shined the treed. Dog A tree is clearly slick and the second tree in the clump is also slick, but it has a small limb that connects to a different tree that has a coon in it. How does this situation get scored?

Last edited by Lance Laymon on 03-22-2018 at 03:32 PM

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Really a good judge will take a quick look to see if the trees were touching. Once it became obvious they didn't touch they should have both went in for 125.

Now, the problem with this is you have a dog that was handled without being declared treed in and waiting the 5. There really is no way of doing it right after the judge ordered the dog be handled.

If I was the handler I would push to have the tree deleted since the judge didn't handle it properly.

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 428

That was the issue I had with it. I didn't know how it should have been fixed.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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That is a question for the members of the cast to answer. It would be difficult to answer without being there.
With that being said, the proper way to handle a situation with 2 trees is to decide how to score them before shining. If you don't decide beforehand, then someone is not going to be happy afterwards. And there really isn't anyway to go back and redo it so you just have to live with the cast vote. But maybe everyone thought that there wasn't a question whether they were 2 or 1 tree so nothing was said. Apparantly the MOH heard everyone on the cast and gave a ruling. How could anyone who didn't hear everyone on the casts explanation give you a correct answer?

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
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Trees a foot apart at the base ? And you could tell dogs were on separate trees ?

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1874

Based on the information and if I was the MOH. I would have scored it one tree. jmo

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 428

Two of the 4 handlers were behind the other two and did not even know they were treeing on different trees until after the tree was scored. The judge was young and just assumed it was the same tree. The other handler wanted it to be split.

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As a judge on that cast they would have a hard time proving their case that dogs were split treed on trees only a foot apart. That being said dog A plused up both ways dog B minused both ways coon seen.


Tar

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Location: Deputy, Indiana
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I tend to agree with you after re reading 4J and 11B, but the MOH said a split tree is split no matter how far or close it is.

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Location: Michigan
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Lance Laymon
I had this happen on a RQE the other night. It was questioned and ruled on by the MOH, but I'm not for sure it was correct. I will attempt to make the situation clear.
A and B are struck with A being treed. When cast arrives both A and B are treeing. Judge tells both handlers to handle dogs with no one saying anything. Here is the Question. They are treeing on a clump of two trees about a foot apart at the base, but go in different directions. One dog was on one tree and the other was on the other. Without saying if they were split or together the cast shined the treed. Dog A tree is clearly slick and the second tree in the clump is also slick, but it has a small limb that connects to a different tree that has a coon in it. How does this situation get scored?

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
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I understand, It was a bad situation and left someone feeling bad no matter how it was scored.

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Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
. That being said dog A plused up both ways dog B minused both ways coon seen.


Tar

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Registered: Sep 2004
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So dog B was never treed in, but after he was handled at the tree the handler of Dog B wants a split tree. LOL When he handled his dog at Dog A's tree he lost his chance to ? if it were two trees or not. IMO

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
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Houston we have a problem lol !! If you are going to give him next available for off game or slick why not for a coon evidently he covered late or his handler would have treed him. He might have just got their barely before they did.

But you would have to be there and I wasn't.

Tar

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Registered: Jun 2003
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Dogs coming in after the judge arrives is easy; 5(b) always applies. Treeing but not declared treed, when judge arrived, requires scoring the tree first, which determines how to score the dog in question.

Circle tree = Circle strike points.
Coon seen = Minus strike points.
Slick tree = award next available tree points and minus both strike and tree points.
Off game = award next available tree points and minus both strike and tree points for Registered (=Scratched for Nites or Grands).

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Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Houston we have a problem lol !!

Tar

---

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That's always been my argument you should get minused for a coon too !! Boys playing defense if the dog got there to late to be treed in or handler decided to play defense because no confidence in his dog if coon is seen he should get minused next available.



You try to steel chicken off my plate your hand gets smacked I don't care how good of defense you play this should be no different.


I don't understand the logic of letting a dog back late on a coon without being minused that's a fault.


Tar

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Tar you're scaring me lol

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Registered: Jan 2013
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Lol not trying too. But we have had this argument about that rule a kagillion times. It just don't make sense to me. Slick or off game next available. A coon in the tree awwwwww lets just minus his strike points poor baby was just to slow maybe he will do better next time .................. Really !!!lol !!!



Tar

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
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It's a rules change year, send a proposal to your Breed Association Tar.

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You or Donnie tell them they don't pay me no mind lol. I just stir the board remember I know my roll lol.


Tar

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Not me. I'm fine with it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
Minus strike points only for dog B

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doug Robinson
Dogs coming in after the judge arrives is easy; 5(b) always applies. Treeing but not declared treed, when judge arrived, requires scoring the tree first, which determines how to score the dog in question.

Circle tree = Circle strike points.
Coon seen = Minus strike points.
Slick tree = award next available tree points and minus both strike and tree points.
Off game = award next available tree points and minus both strike and tree points for Registered (=Scratched for Nites or Grands).

---

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Tarbaby, just what is your role? Aren't you a MOH? Isn't your Role to follow UKC's rules regardless of your personal opinion? Or do you let your personal opinion of how a dog should act influence how you uphold UKC's rules. Or do you see your role as pot stirrer on the interweb completely separate from your role as a MOH? In that case you have two completely different roles.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 03-22-2018 at 05:57 PM

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