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Posted by Rip on 06-01-2017 01:11 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
You are correct, it isn't going to happen every time...but the one thing that does happen every single time is that the dog gets accused of, or called a babbler anyway...that is my point.
I am just not wrapping my head around this whole "barking at nothing" "no coon there" "No track evident", but coon is sitting in the tree thing. I mean, is this a magic coon that only appears after the dog grabs a slick tree, or what???? How is there no coon, as in zero, when the dog is trailing/babbling or whatever name you want to hang on "running thru the woods and barking at the same time" but the dog trees and there is a coon.
I am dumb, been beat half to death on numerous occasions, thrown thru several plate glass windows and had TB, twice...but something is just not adding up with this one.
Just to make sure I am not missing something...dog is in the woods at night, dog starts barking and moving in a direction, dog stops moving and stands on the side of a tree and barks, a coon is seen in the tree the dog is standing/barking on...........but the dog babbled????? What?????? I'll be GD...my dogs cant even babble right!!!!!

Are you asking a real question or just arguing trying to defend a babbling dog? I can't tell LOL.

I'll try to put it a different way. You take the dog to down town Chicago and go inside a hotel. You turn the dog loose and he barks down the hall out and down the street. 2 miles later he bays a coon in a dumpster. You going to think he struck that coon in the lobby of the hotel?

The dogs we are talking about will eventually get under a coon, but they will leave barking down the yellow line of the interstate, inside a building or in the front yard you been watching all day. They bark and never shut up to the point that sometimes you can't tell when they actually do strike a coon.

Sometimes they will actually change over a little when they finally do get on a coon.

They do eventually tree a coon, but they never left on a coon, deer or anything else. They left rattling their head.

If they are accurate they are winners.

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Posted by msinc on 06-01-2017 02:02 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
Are you asking a real question or just arguing trying to defend a babbling dog? I can't tell LOL........

My dogs don't babble, I have nothing to defend. I have seen plenty that do, just as I have seen an equal number that do not, but were accused of it. I am trying to understand at least some of the reasoning behind most of these posts. Going back and reading some of them it looks like this is the first one to make any reference of distance, albeit ridiculous thru a hotel lobby and miles later. The dog you are describing is what I have always known as a "ghost trailer"...yep, he will do it every time and no, I agree, there is absolutely no coon there. But this dog, at least the ones I have seen rarely if ever gets under anything, let a lone a coon.
What I have been hearing all along is that any dog that strikes a track and trees it may or may not be a babbler and if he does it every time he is cut loose then he is for certain an "automatic strike dog"...either way, every time he's cut loose there is no coon to be run, yet by some miraculous feat of work on the dogs part he ends up treed with a coon, again...every time he is cut loose???
Usually, when people come up with these occurrences where it appears a dog could actually be doing his job and he is doing it with great consistency it's a problem because.....the accusers don't have a dog that can run with this one. What I am asking is if every time you cut a dog loose and he ends up with a coon in his tree where is the downside??? I don't care if the dog thinks he's running 8 legged mice from mars.
Back in the 80's there was a "gentlemen" with a bluetick. Walkers were doing just about all of the winning, but when they lost to this dog it was because "he ran a deer away from the cast and fell off on a coon"....now, we know this must have been "true", because he was a bluetick and he was beating too many high powered dogs.

Posted by Rip on 06-01-2017 02:13 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by msinc
My dogs don't babble, I have nothing to defend. I have seen plenty that do, just as I have seen an equal number that do not, but were accused of it. I am trying to understand at least some of the reasoning behind most of these posts. Going back and reading some of them it looks like this is the first one to make any reference of distance, albeit ridiculous thru a hotel lobby and miles later. The dog you are describing is what I have always known as a "ghost trailer"...yep, he will do it every time and no, I agree, there is absolutely no coon there. But this dog, at least the ones I have seen rarely if ever gets under anything, let a lone a coon.
What I have been hearing all along is that any dog that strikes a track and trees it may or may not be a babbler and if he does it every time he is cut loose then he is for certain an "automatic strike dog"...either way, every time he's cut loose there is no coon to be run, yet by some miraculous feat of work on the dogs part he ends up treed with a coon, again...every time he is cut loose???
Usually, when people come up with these occurrences where it appears a dog could actually be doing his job and he is doing it with great consistency it's a problem because.....the accusers don't have a dog that can run with this one. What I am asking is if every time you cut a dog loose and he ends up with a coon in his tree where is the downside??? I don't care if the dog thinks he's running 8 legged mice from mars.
Back in the 80's there was a "gentlemen" with a bluetick. Walkers were doing just about all of the winning, but when they lost to this dog it was because "he ran a deer away from the cast and fell off on a coon"....now, we know this must have been "true", because he was a bluetick and he was beating too many high powered dogs.

That first part was a joke, but no the ones I am talking about are "automatic" because they will actually open every time they are cut loose and never shut up until they are treed even in a hotel lobby.

The ones that win WILL be under a coon. They are accurate and they go however far they need to tree a coon, but that doesn't change the fact that they left babbling

I know people that look for that, babbling included, because that is a winner especially if the handler can get you leash locked in a 1 hour hunt, you don't have much of a chance. They gotta have the other part too, the two lookin down and the drive to go however far they need, but if you find one that never shuts up and babbles every time it is cut loose it will win, win, win.

But all the circle points in the world won't beat one plus point so they gotta have a coon or the rest doesn't matter.

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Posted by joey on 06-01-2017 04:44 PM:

Msinc, I'll give you an example. 4 years ago I pleasure hunted with a dog that had just won the national male leader. I had drew him several times and already knew what he was. The owner's garmin collar had malfunctioned so we used mine. The dog went 50 yards and "struck" like he always does, then proceeded to open up and went .9 on the garmin. He never went left or right on this "track" until about 100 yards before he treed. He would open every 50 to 100 yards the whole way in there. He had a kitten in a bush when we got to him. When a dog runs a track there is some left and right motion on the garmin track. You seem to call this gohst trailing? It's babbling and a dog that does it every single drop every night is an auto strike dog. There are dogs that just open faster and are much better track dogs as you described but I have been doing this for 30 years and there is not a track every place you cut loose. Not even a trash track.

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Posted by msinc on 06-02-2017 02:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Msinc, I'll give you an example. 4 years ago I pleasure hunted with a dog that had just won the national male leader. I had drew him several times and already knew what he was. The owner's garmin collar had malfunctioned so we used mine. The dog went 50 yards and "struck" like he always does, then proceeded to open up and went .9 on the garmin. He never went left or right on this "track" until about 100 yards before he treed. He would open every 50 to 100 yards the whole way in there. He had a kitten in a bush when we got to him. When a dog runs a track there is some left and right motion on the garmin track. You seem to call this ghost trailing? It's babbling and a dog that does it every single drop every night is an auto strike dog. There are dogs that just open faster and are much better track dogs as you described but I have been doing this for 30 years and there is not a track every place you cut loose. Not even a trash track.

I understand...it's a matter of terminology....to me, when a dog is very excitable to go hunting and you first turn him loose he barks at nothing other than being happy he is free to go. This is what I call babbling and this dog typically does it at first and then shuts up eventually, but fairly quickly.
When a dog "babbles" for 9 tenths of a mile, that is what I {and the rest of the world as I know it} calls ghost trailing. He acts like and it sounds like he is running a track and I agree, the ones I have seen almost always just went in a straight line to nowhere. If they don't find something to tree they just keep right on going.
You can call it anything you want, but I very seriously doubt that dogs scratched for "babbling" in a UKC hunt did it continuously for 9/10ths of a mile, they did it for just long enough to get the pencil in most cases. This is why it has always been referred to as ghost trailing, the dog is not doing it because he is excited or happy to go during the first few minutes...typically the ghost trailer makes a night out of it, he's too big of an idiot to do anything else. What I have seen of these dogs is that at least less than half ever actually tree anything.
I have been doing this for 41 years and I agree, there is definitely not a track everywhere you cut loose and even in a very high coon population there is still no way a dog can start a track every time in the exact same short amount of time to hunt and find it. Which is another dead giveaway...no other dog joins in on this "track". Ghost trailers might fool me the first night out, but after that I have his name and number!!!!

Edit: I also think I might get what you are calling an automatic strike dog, but he is a little different that the ghost trailer. This dog, as I know it, starts out barking but actually does go hunting for a real track to run, he just barks the whole time he is looking. He does not just go aimlessly in a straight line and he is typically a "me too" dog, so he will pack and end up on the same tree as the other dogs. Take him by himself and you rarely see a coon. If you pay attention and listen you can usually hear when this dog actually strikes a real track.

Posted by joey on 06-02-2017 04:44 AM:

Now we are getting on the same page, but a lot of big winners do it. Some of the top money winning hounds are absolute coondogs except they have what I consider a fault but some consider it an advantage. We have had a Ukc world ch or two that were really good at it too.

Posted by Rip on 06-02-2017 09:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Now we are getting on the same page, but a lot of big winners do it. Some of the top money winning hounds are absolute coondogs except they have what I consider a fault but some consider it an advantage. We have had a Ukc world ch or two that were really good at it too.

ABSOLUTELY wish you had a "like" button LOL.

I know people that just love it because of the advantage it gives. I consider it a fault, they consider it an advantage because it's a game they play to win regardless.

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Posted by Charles Pullen on 06-02-2017 10:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
The ones you seen could be minused by a 6 year old. Have you ever seen a MOH overturn a babbling call?

Yeah I did once and it was a purina hunt with a non hunting judge as well .

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Posted by Mike Van Dusen on 06-03-2017 03:28 AM:

Automatic:

I have owned 2 like this, didn't put either in hunts, for that reason, shows how smart I am ....The 1 was out of Cowee Creek Clint, and her mama won the SS in 2000, she was a coondog, with company, hunted half a$$ by herself,but she was accurate, and 120 + a minute treeedog. she should of been hauled to town!
The other was out of Triple Threat, she was WILD, and quick,but I couldn't stand her!

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Posted by thomasg on 06-03-2017 05:19 AM:

they been around along time. first one i saw was a walker pup called rowdy in the early 80s .was dads pride and joy 4 awhile lol. had a monster mouth , first night we took him he was raising cain in the box i asked dad whats wrong with that dog . dad said oh he will shut up soon he is excited .a couple miles down the the road dad had enough excitement and pulled over to give him a whipping . took 3 whippings in a short distance to get him educated . got to the woods and ole rowdy wouldnt come out of the box and dad said just leave the door open and he will come along sooner or latter . sure enough we heard that big mouth pup coming behind us . dad said ole rowdy sure is smart hes tracking us down .when he caught us he was opening every breath full speed and knocked dad to his knees .lol rowdy never shut up and kept on moving out . dad said that pups got a screw lose and needs killing .a hour latter rowdy parked under a coon and dad said well maybe we can make something out of him . the next three outings were the same except 4 the barking in the box and getting knocked down cause we got out of the way .lol 5th trip to the woods ole rowdy ran down the center line of the highway barking every breath where he was run over by a dump truck and killed. thats a automatic strike dog .lol

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