UKC Forums - Top Redbone Females....who has them?

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Posted by WattsFlatsRedbo on 03-18-2014 01:06 AM:

Shane, I hope my post didn't rub you the wrong way. That wasn't my intension. I was basically asking if you've seen dogs that outright dominated everything they hunted against on a consistent basis in TOP level hunts like your talking about? I think you of all people would know that just flipping open a prohound mag and seeing the same dog a bunch of times doesn't nessiceraly mean that their the dog I'm asking about. Your gonna see the same owners and handlers more then you'll see the same dogs. When looking for the dog you seek I hope you keep in mind that just because the dogs you talk about winning all over the country, are doing so because their owners have deep pockets and can give them the opportunity to do so. A lot of those dogs are in a hunt every night of the week with paid handlers/guides. I'm sure there are plenty of dogs out there that could do the same amount of winning with the same chances, but never will get the chance to. Not to take anything away from those dogs either. Their probally the best that money can buy. Also those guys spend a lot of time and money investigating any leads about tough young dogs that could be the next big winner for them. That's what you'll have to do to find the dog you seek and from this post I'd say that's exactly what you plan on doing. If you wait for them to start winning all over the country then it will probally be too late to get the dog unless your ready to spend a small fortune.
As far as me hunting with some of these big winning dogs goes, I have. I have hunted against state and breed leading silver, gold and platinum chs over the years in added purse and state hunts. I have hunted with World Chs and final 4 dogs and not ones that did it several years before. Actually some were dogs that went on to achieve that the same year I hunted against them. I've hunted against big-named payed handlers and was handled by them a few times. I'm not that good of a handler. I'd like to think I know what your talking about when you say a top 5% dog. I know how the game is played and those guys that are allways getting their pics taken at big events year after year have connections and guides all over the country. With all this said, I'll say again. I have not seen that dog that just blew my socks off yet. It sounded like you were assuming maybe I just haven't ever hunted with any of these big winners, but I promise you I have. I know what your saying about dogs going on winning streaks where they dominate for a while, but when I'm asking about a "consistent powerhouse" I mean dominating for years not just hot streaks. That's why I was asking if it even exists in any breeds? I guess I'm asking about a dog even better then your looking for. It would be a lot less then top 5%. Like top 1% or better in any breed. I personally haven't seen it yet. I thought there might have been a couple in the other breed. One comes to mind first, but then you see their handler/owner get caught buying off a cast. I know you know who I mean. Everyone probally does. I'm sure that wasn't the first time he did it and I'm sure he's not the only one to have ever have done it too. I guess what I'm saying is some of those top dogs have a little more working for them then just dog power. Granted I know they are packing coondogs still too, but some stack the odds in their favor in a number of different ways. Like I said before, I know how the game is played and in the big leagues its not played by poor boys. I take some of those winning dogs that you talk about seeing in the book all the time with a grain of salt. Ecspecially after hunting with a few over the years. Maybe I have my bar set too high???? I know I'll never reach my goals with my dogs because there is room for improvement in any dog and my goal is for the perfect dog. I know it doesn't exist, but I plan on keeping working towards that goal regaurdless. I have a looooooong ways to go.

__________________
------------------------------------------------
WATTS FLATS REDBONE KENNELS
Owner: Adam Frary
Home#(814)664-9694
Cell#(716)338-7372
Home of:
(R.I.P.) GRNITECH CH 'PR' WATTS FLATS FATTY PATTY
(2006 Overall Southern Redbone Champion)
(GrNtCh winner and High scoring dog Sat night with 1100+/75-)
(2005 Qualified for UKC World)
(2006 Qualified for UKC World)
(2006 Autumn Oaks GrNtCh cast winner)
(PKC Money Winner)

GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' WATTS FLATS JUMP'EM UP JEB HTX-3 (DNA-P)
( Out of Patty and Lash's Rowdy)
(2008 Qualified for UKC World)
(1st Place GrNt and Overall High-Scoring Dog at the 2009 PA Governers Cup)
(1st place NtCh and Overall High-Scoring Dog at the 2008 NYS Battle of the Breeds Hunt)
(1st place Reg. Ny State Spring Championship)
(3rd place Reg. 2008 National Redbone Days, Fri night)
(2nd place Reg. BBOA Zone hunt)
(PKC Money Winner)

(R.I.P.) GRNITECH 'PR' WATTS FLATS MUDDY CREEK MAGGIE HTX-2 (DNA-P)
(Out of Jeb and Hiedi)
(2013 Qualified for World Championship)
(2015 Qualified for World Championship)
(2013 Ohio Gov Cup- NiteCh winner and Overall opposite sex winner)
(2014 National Redbone Days High-scoring female and 3rd place overall Thurs night)
(PKC Money Winner)

+ Upcoming:
'PR' WATTS FLATS STATELINE SALLY
(Maggie X Moon)

Posted by josh tetting on 03-18-2014 02:41 AM:

my measuring

Stick is fanny everything she does she wants to be first and has
Been like that since she was weee. Fanny
Is a flat out machine she has this ability
To just **** a coon on ruff nights. And in a cast she usually
Gets a couple by herself and gets a piece
Or most times beets the other dogs to the tree they are setting up. Tim Fenske my partner and co owner of fanny said many
Times she is too the max with lady parts
And I know you spent time with maxx Shane
Does this kind of answer your question. Any time you want to see her go charge up your light sight in your .22 and bring your best. I promiss you this you may have better or seen better But at the end of the night you would agree she's a top hound in anyone's book.
One more thing about fan. When most guys go to a hunt they think I hope I win my cast. When I take fan to a hunt I think what kind of score do I need to win the whole thing...

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GRCH NTCH Snyder's Death-Row Flashback (Flash)
CH, FCH,GRNTCH Ice Ages' Front Seat Fanny 2011 world finalist at 2 years old
Temp home of Grch, Fch, GrNtch Wades Red Busko

Posted by josh tetting on 03-18-2014 02:58 AM:

sorry for blowing

If It seems like I'm saying fan can't be beat
Or is perfect neither is true she's not perfect at all but she sure does looks real good alot of nights

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-18-2014 03:43 AM:

I was just curious as to what you consider her strong points in competition...what do you feel gives her an edge over other dogs?

__________________
Shane Maxey
Proud lifetime member of the NRA
Banshee Wildlife Products
Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Jinx
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
"Always outnumbered...Never outgunned!"
To enjoy lots of pics and videos of out redbones, find me on Facebook
as Shenandoah Maxey

Posted by josh tetting on 03-18-2014 01:10 PM:

her

Edge is her competitive nature she has to be first and out front that's my favorite thing about her. Second would be her speed
She tracks real fast and gets treed even faster. Third advantage
I think is she makes very few mistakes and when she does she generally can recover.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 03-19-2014 04:06 PM:

Re: Re: Shane I know the type of dog you describe

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw
....but I think they would really attract a whole lot more serious competition hunters if they would have more true elimination hunts from start to finish. The kind where if you win your cast...you advance until there is only one dog left standing....the best dog through the whole hunt.
I proposed year or so ago that we start such a redbone hunt each year....a true elimination event. Two rounds Friday and two Saturday and only one dog who won every round and came out undefeated be crowned the winner....
Most people laughed at that idea and said we don't need such a hunt to identify the best redbones.....but I still think we do.
I don't have all the answers to get our breed on equal footing with the other breeds....but i do have ideas and that's what I am working on. Good luck to all those who are doing the same....shane

Aren't they having just such a hunt this week end? Nine Redbones are qualified to hunt in it. I wonder how many will be there? Maybe we will have the first Platinum Champion Redbone on Sunday morning.

Posted by Brian Ratliff on 03-19-2014 11:34 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Shane I know the type of dog you describe

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Aren't they having just such a hunt this week end? Nine Redbones are qualified to hunt in it. I wonder how many will be there? Maybe we will have the first Platinum Champion Redbone on Sunday morning.

I know 1 that's there.

__________________
912-424-6651

Posted by Richard Lambert on 03-20-2014 04:04 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Shane I know the type of dog you describe

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Ratliff
I know 1 that's there.

There were three Redbones there last night; Danno, Crow and Shilo.

Posted by redbone55 on 03-21-2014 01:12 PM:

Hello Shane.

I don't no if you remember me this is Brock Krasa. I spoke to you briefly at Michigan madness this past year. I been strictly hunting pkc for quite some time now due to being a paid handler. I no the type of dog your looking for i have the pleasure of hunting a male and a female that i would consider them both in the elite bracket of pkc dogs unfortunately there both walkers. The female i handle last year i placed 2 in the pa state race she is by far the best hound i have ever cut loose having said that I'm sure you no I own hope she is a great coondog and finished to grand with ease at 2 years old placing at multiple big hunts and she has what it takes to win in pkc her best feature by far is her ability to be re casted and she gets through the country in a hurry with her head up drifting 90 percent of the coon she trees biggest downfall is she is silent locates and trees but consistently shuts dogs out. but I have never pushed her due to getting paid to do what i love just can't pass up the opportunity to handle for free.

__________________
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Brock Krasa

CH GRNITECH 'PR' Krasa's Hair Trigger Hope

Posted by Richard Lambert on 03-21-2014 02:56 PM:

Re: Hello Shane.

quote:
Originally posted by redbone55
......she has what it takes to win in pkc....... but I have never pushed her.

Maybe you should sell her to someone who would pay you to handle her.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-21-2014 06:47 PM:

Re: Hello Shane.

quote:
Originally posted by redbone55
I don't no if you remember me this is Brock Krasa. I spoke to you briefly at Michigan madness this past year. I been strictly hunting pkc for quite some time now due to being a paid handler. I no the type of dog your looking for i have the pleasure of hunting a male and a female that i would consider them both in the elite bracket of pkc dogs unfortunately there both walkers. The female i handle last year i placed 2 in the pa state race she is by far the best hound i have ever cut loose having said that I'm sure you no I own hope she is a great coondog and finished to grand with ease at 2 years old placing at multiple big hunts and she has what it takes to win in pkc her best feature by far is her ability to be re casted and she gets through the country in a hurry with her head up drifting 90 percent of the coon she trees biggest downfall is she is silent locates and trees but consistently shuts dogs out. but I have never pushed her due to getting paid to do what i love just can't pass up the opportunity to handle for free.

Yes I remember you Brock. I also remember drawing you and hope on Thursday night at national redbone days 3 years ago in holmesville. It was me with Bree, you with hope, Rex with Jim and Lucas hunting Deana....Bree's mother for Mr. Shabel. I could tell that night that Hope was tight mouthed....and that she liked to get by herself. I can see why she has won aa lot for you. Good luck in the money hunts this year....maybe I will see you at a few.....shane

Posted by WattsFlatsRedbo on 03-21-2014 08:19 PM:

(Quote) I've had the pleasure of hunting with multiple world champion dogs over my 40 plus years of coon hunting. Out of all of those world champion dogs I've hunted with, I've not seen a plug in the bunch, but I have also noticed one thing that seemed to be 'missing" in each of them.

I personally think that everyone wants to lead a world champion, but VERY FEW of us know what it takes to make a world champion. I think that world champions reproduce the type of dog that is capable of winning a world championship, but we just don't recognize it.

The big winning dogs that I have had the pleasure of hunting with were all nice dogs, but they were not the dogs that were going to score a thousand points every nights. They were the kind that had enough game drive to tree only when there is a coon in the tree, they didn't bark out of place or babble, they were not necessarily 140 bark a minute tree dogs. Nothing flashy, but they all had one thing in common....consistency. It did not matter when, or where you turned the dog loose, they hunted until they found a track they could run, they ran the track, located, treed and stayed put. Bottom line, they just did not make mistakes, and they treed coon.

In today's competition driven world, we want the fastest, loudest, flashiest dogs a the hunt....and those dogs win on a good nights...but the consistent dogs that will tree a coon or two in two hours without making mistakes are the ones that win big and consistently. (Quote)

__________________
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Home of Oak Ridge Treeing Walkers
Whitey Dogs ROCK

Oak Ridge Coon Hounds

Seen this post on the main forum. Looks like Joe has noticed the same things I have over the years. This was in the "Why don't world champs reproduce well?" thread. Anyhow after noticing the same things myself that is why I was asking if a flashy high-powered dog and a everynight consistent dog even exists all wrapped up into one package. I thought maybe that's what you were looking for. I know I'd like to have one like that!
Anyways sorry for getting your post sidetracked, Shane.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-21-2014 09:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by WattsFlatsRedbo
(Quote) I've had the pleasure of hunting with multiple world champion dogs over my 40 plus years of coon hunting. Out of all of those world champion dogs I've hunted with, I've not seen a plug in the bunch, but I have also noticed one thing that seemed to be 'missing" in each of them.

I personally think that everyone wants to lead a world champion, but VERY FEW of us know what it takes to make a world champion. I think that world champions reproduce the type of dog that is capable of winning a world championship, but we just don't recognize it.

The big winning dogs that I have had the pleasure of hunting with were all nice dogs, but they were not the dogs that were going to score a thousand points every nights. They were the kind that had enough game drive to tree only when there is a coon in the tree, they didn't bark out of place or babble, they were not necessarily 140 bark a minute tree dogs. Nothing flashy, but they all had one thing in common....consistency. It did not matter when, or where you turned the dog loose, they hunted until they found a track they could run, they ran the track, located, treed and stayed put. Bottom line, they just did not make mistakes, and they treed coon.

In today's competition driven world, we want the fastest, loudest, flashiest dogs a the hunt....and those dogs win on a good nights...but the consistent dogs that will tree a coon or two in two hours without making mistakes are the ones that win big and consistently. (Quote)

__________________
Joe Newlin
Home of Oak Ridge Treeing Walkers
Whitey Dogs ROCK

Oak Ridge Coon Hounds

Seen this post on the main forum. Looks like Joe has noticed the same things I have over the years. This was in the "Why don't world champs reproduce well?" thread. Anyhow after noticing the same things myself that is why I was asking if a flashy high-powered dog and a everynight consistent dog even exists all wrapped up into one package. I thought maybe that's what you were looking for. I know I'd like to have one like that!
Anyways sorry for getting your post sidetracked, Shane.

It just so happens that I know Joe and his wife Tammy very well. They do alot for my club and the club at Peru. I won't disagree with Joe on anything that he stated. But I will say that top level dogs do exist that can score high if they are in alot of coon. Just look at the final cast when Mr. Clean dominated the ukc world hunt a few years back.
Of course we all want the total package in a dog....but the best and biggest winning dogs are seldom what most would consider the total package. I have seen some dogs who seldom if ever make a bark on the ground be some of the biggest winning dogs in the country. I also consider these dogs to be some of the toughest to beat in competition. When you look at their scorecards and see 100 strike and 100 or 125 tree you think they must have both ends. but upon closer inspection you see the other dogs in the cast with lines through their strike points....because this tight mouth dog is so fast and gets so deep...he shuts them out many times without ever making a track bark. I would rather have a good strike dog...but hate to draw these types in competition.
Each top level dog out there has specific talents and skills and the combination of a few of those in a very smart dog who has the drive and the will to get to that tree with a live raccoon in it before the other dogs is what it really boils down to.
I want a big loud mouth on a dog so I can hear it a long way. I want a dog to open the second it smells a coon....but this is not really all that high on my list. I want a dog that is a quicker locator than most other dogs...this is a priority.
I want a dog that is very accurate...another priority.
I want a dog that is independent....either totally or enough that it gets at least a couple of split trees in most casts....high priority.
I want a dog that has more drive than most dogs I will draw. A need for speed that will allow them to get on the coon track first and a desire to get to the tree first....also a pretty high priority.
I can tolerate an average tree dog if it has several of the above skills. I can also tolerate an average volume mouth if it carries well and is something I can pick out of a crowd. I can tolerate a dog that trashes some...(I know how to break them)
I can tolerate an ugly dog that couldn't win a bench show if it were the only dog there...lol
I can tolerate a wild and crazy jacked up hard to handle dog as long as it will let me get a hand full of collar when I get to the tree its on.
But I can't tolerate a mean dog, or a lazy dog, or a me too dog.
I hunt alone 90% of the time, late at night (work 2nd shift) and I hunt each dog alone unless I am starting a pup or something. If a dog can't tree coons consistently by itself after it has had what I feel is enough time to bring out a sufficient level of its natural ability....it gets culled or moves to someone who wants to give it a little more time to devolop.
Consistency, as Joe talks about in my opinion is the most common factor in dogs that get on big win streaks. But it is also something that comes and goes several times in a dogs life and many things cause this. This is where a good trainer and dog handler really shines because they know what to do with a dog to maximize that dogs ability and keep it consistent so it can win.
One of the things that myself and many other top handlers do to keep a dog at its optimum performance in competition on the weekends is to hunt that dog 3-4 nights during the week completely alone. We do this because most dogs will pick up bad habits from other dogs in nite hunts...hunting them alone and often helps keep that dog on track and builds its confidence. That dog needs to know that it does not need another dogs help to tree a coon. Now most serious competition hunters already know this...they figured it out along the way.
But there are still people in this breed and others who start pups in packs and even claim to train dogs in packs. They post lots of pics of dogs treeing in packs with a cage coon above them ....many times in the daylight. I can't stress enough to people out there who want to train or own a top level competition dog someday....DO NOT FALL INTO THIS TRAP!
Sure working pups on a cage coon is exciting and often very helpful to a point. doing it more than a half dozen times...especially in daylight....will more than likely reinforce bad habits in that pup that will be hard to, or impossible to break later.
Most top level competition dogs are bred with the instinct to tree. a few cage coons and maybe a drag or two and they should be treeing....and as soon as they are....you should stop with anything that reinforces treeing by sight...or treeing because other dogs are treeing (as in pack training).
If you let this go on for very long you will get dogs that are loose on the tree when they can't see the coon above and who will me too and cover any other dog that trees because when they were pups they just were basically trained to follow the leader of the pack till it treed and it gets the same reward as the leader.
I can't believe there are people out there that are still willing to send their well bred pup to guys who are training them to tree by sight and me too anything else that trees ahead of them...bad, bad, bad, practice!
Very few of these dogs who spend a month or more at these type of places will ever be a top level dog in competition. If a few do make it, it will be in spite of their early months at such a place...not because of it.
Just think about it, if we know that everything a dog will ever be is in its dna when its born....why not let it come out and develope naturally the way it is suppose to? The best dogs are bred and born to tree...they don't need to be subjected to endless cyles of day after day exposure to a drag or cage coon in order to start them.
If people remember one thing in all of this....remember that dogs learn from repetition. They learn good things that way...and they learn bad things that way. If you can set up the situation so that your dog is doing exactly what you want...over and over again....that is the best way for your dog to form a habit of doing that.
But when I see these so called "trainers" posting hundreds of pics of packs of young dogs on trees in daylight with a coon a few feet above...I just cringe. Because I know that those dogs are learning all the bad things from that ill concieved but well meaning method of training.
Like, sight treeing
pack hunting
learning to just follow the leader instead of bieng a leader
it causes dogs to hunt close looking for that coon they know is in a cage not far away.
causes them to be loose on trees they can't see the coon in above them.
causes them to tree squirrel nests on moonlight nights because it looks like a coon to them and the list goes on an on.
Most of these dogs after spending a month or two or three in the hands of such a so called "trainer" will go on to be dogs that will run and tree with other dogs and some might even me too their way to a few low titles....but the odds are overwhelming that they will never be top contenders in competition because even though they may have been born with the right traits to be that, at a very young age they were molded into something else entirely by a "trainer" who taught them to be pack animals who follow the good coondog and pile on when it trees a coon. Treeing is just one small part of a dogs training and should be one of the strongest instincts that are bred into a dog...so when it is ready...it doesn't take much to get a dog treeing. Why pay someone hundreds of dollars a month to train your pup to pack hunt and sight tree before it is really ready? Doing so also trains your dog to engage in bad habits that you never want a competition dog to have....and you just trained your pup to do those very things by paying someone to repeat them over and over again with your pup until it has become a bad habit....Rookie mistake!!!
I think as a breed we all know how hard we struggle to find dogs who are naturally independent and have extra drive and the ability to tree coon alone.
But these "puppy training mills" are not the way to get the traits that our dogs are born with....to come to the surface.
Yes, seeing a puppy tree at an early age is exciting....but it only means something if it used its nose to find a track and follow it to a tree that has a coon in it. Someday, if you ever hope to have a top level competition dog who can win anywhere....it will have to be able to do that alone, and do it better than the other dogs in the cast.
i know alot of people are trying to better the breed and most think that better breeding is the way, but I think getting the pups from those better bred litters into the hands of the best pup starters and trainers in just as important to get the end result you seek. Good luck to everyone this year and remember....proper training and correction is a high priority in producing dogs that can compete at the highest levels....shane

Posted by WattsFlatsRedbo on 03-22-2014 12:28 AM:

Thank's for the reply, Shane. I'd say we expect about the same things out of our dogs and do the same things when training. Also I am the same way when running dogs during the week. They are hunted over 90% of the time by themselves. I feel it promotes independence and confidence in a dog too. Around here most woods that I hunt are very large pieces where a dog can be well over a mile in and theres no driving around and getting closer. Anyhow I have to have dogs that will go as deep as needed, get split when they can and rack up a good score still when the coon are bunched up on feed sources. A well rounded dog is a must to even win at a local level. A guys not gonna finish dogs by entering 1 cast night hunts around here either like other parts of the country. I know you have PLENTY of comp even at a local level in your area, but it allways gets me when someone starts bragging about their dog finishing to NtCh with 3-1sts and to GrNt really quick too. Ecspecially when you know the area they finished the dog and it was mostly hunting 1 cast night hunts. I've kind of learned to take what everyone says with a grain of salt anymore. I've seen way too many dogs that get blown up on these message boards that I wouldn't even feed. Maybe their just not my type of dog though. From what you just said your prioritys are they wouldn't be your type either. Lol. Maybe I'm just a little bitter anymore too. I know what I have in Jeb, yet he doesn't get bred to. At 8 and out of shape I'd still gladly put him up against half the so called red stud dogs out there. Lol. I know most people that see me post think I'm just blowing smoke, heck maybe I am a little. Lol. However the proof should be in the pudding. I've made and owned 3 GrNt's and had a hand in training and making 2 other GrNts and a couple of NtCh's. The couple of GrNts that where owned by my buddies and neighbors were sold when I told them I didn't want them. It was funny I'd hear about those dogs after they were sold like they were the next world chs. Well I knew exactly what they were. I helped make them. Lol. Anyhow I would think people might think something when I say Jeb was the best out of what I've handled over the years and bring more females to him. Well Jeb will be up to 3 years since he's been bred to this year.
The reason why I'm rambling about this now to you, Shane. Is because I know you want to see our breed succeed like the walker an English breeds have. Well sometimes I don't think we will until folks are willing to breed outside their "CLICKS" like the other breeds do. I know your not guilty of this, but way too many people in our breed are. IMO. This maybe one of our breeds biggest hurdles to overcome.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-22-2014 01:10 AM:

Yes, its a fact that certain clicks exist, and they mainly keep to their own line of dogs when they make crosses. This is good in a way because each of those groups are concentrating that lines traits and it gives those looking to outcross several options. For some it works....for others they are just line blind and breeding paper tigers. I feel like my program is producing some nice results and will really get an up or down vote over the next two years when a lot of the pups from our crosses should be tested in competition.
Send Jeb over here to me for a few months. Let me get him collected a few times and get some good video to document his mouth, how he sounds on track, how he locates and how he trees. Then let me breed one of the best competition bred redbone females to him and place those pups carefully into the hands of the best pup starters, trainers, and handlers in the county.....and watch as Jeb appears on the breeds radar like a 777 out of the clear blue sky.
You know what you have in Jeb, and I know what I think Jeb has in his DNA...we just have to prove to others what we both see. I have helped others with dogs that I think have the potential to transform this breed....and I would be glad to help you with Jeb also. He may be gone by the time that others see what is right in front of them....so that's why it is super important to get semen collected and stored on him before he is unable to reproduce. I am willing to help you do that any way I can brother....here if I can help....shane

Posted by WattsFlatsRedbo on 03-22-2014 05:14 AM:

Thank you very much, Shane. I am gonna have to take you up on your offer. Maybe we can work out a deal where if you like what you see in him while you have him that we can make sure you have however many breedings stored from him that you would like for yourself as well. Where those breedings would be yours to do with however you please. We'll have to talk about what kind of funds I'll need to give you too for getting him collected. Times are tight for me so I'll have to plan ahead a little to make sure I have the $ needed. He's not what he was in his youth, but I think you'll still like him and his style. Kicks dirt when you unsnap him, runs head up covering ground fast, opens on first scent, moves a track fast and is a quick, decisive, one bark, stay put tree dog. Big bawls on track, dying bawl locates when he hits tree and switches to a steady chop.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-22-2014 05:28 AM:

Adam, Dean recently had a price increase after several years at $200 per collection it went up to $225. You usually get between 4 and 6 breedings per collection and there is a 1 time fee of $25 to set up your account and that covers storage fees for first year as well. I would love to have a few breedings in storage on Jeb. Not sure how many you want to get collected on him but I will pay for two collections myself and split however many breedings he gets with you so you would have 4-6 in your account that would not cost you a thing. This is a deal I have made with a few others and it works for me and the stud owner. If we can get some semen stored on him I can promise that he will have at least two top females bred in the next year. Me keeping Jeb here won't cost you a thing either...be happy to have him here and help both you and the breed. Don't let the cost stop you or hold things up. Lets get some semen on him and we can work out the rest. I am going to try to make it up to the zone 3 hunt at oak harbor in about a month....maybe you can make arrangements to have him there and I could pick him up. if not we can work something out and get him here. Take care brother.

Posted by WattsFlatsRedbo on 03-22-2014 05:24 PM:

That sounds great! I'll plan on bringing Jeb to the Oak Harbor hunt then. I'll plan on bringing Maggie along to enter in the hunt. Hopefully someday I'll be able to return the favor your willing to do for me somehow.

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 03-22-2014 09:36 PM:

Sounds good Adam, look forward to seeing you at Oak Harbor!

Posted by Hoosier Outlaw on 10-10-2017 08:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bobby Stevens
they are extinct shane the breed is full of good males and no females just look how many people have asked about them and then put stipulations on them like they are trying to build a race car and not a well balanced consistent coon tree'r// ?

Seems that times have changed in the 3 years since this thread started....

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