UKC Forums - Garmin in hunts ?'s

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-- Garmin in hunts ?'s (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928350477)

Posted by JiM on 12-08-2013 04:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Paint Creek English
Went way overboard on this rule.what would be wrong with everyone carrying their tracking device of any type in off mode?Only to be used in time out.

Well, that would have made their rule the same as PKCs rule and we can't have that.

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Posted by john Duemmer on 12-08-2013 04:12 PM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paint Creek English
.what would be wrong with everyone carrying their tracking device of any type in off mode?Only to be used in time out. [/QUOTE

Nothing wrong with it. Nothing wrong with carrying an empty gun either, but it makes them both useless...

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Posted by Will Walker on 12-08-2013 04:15 PM:

this will be the demise of ukc hunts.....if they think numbers are down now wait til this rule kicks in. i never wouldve imagined leaving a garmin on during a hunt.......JMO

Posted by john Duemmer on 12-08-2013 04:41 PM:

I think we coonhunters must be the slowest bunch on the planet when it comes to accepting change, The sport just isnt like it was 50 years ago, places to hunt have shrunk and at the same time the dogs we hunt go deeper and pack less. The garmin is a great tool,even the guys who critisized them up and down in the beginning now have one on their belt.
Just watch how quick the other KCs. change their policies to keep up.

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Posted by JiM on 12-08-2013 05:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
I think we coonhunters must be the slowest bunch on the planet when it comes to accepting change,

Of course we are John. Hell, we still hunt with dogs. On the other hand, houndsmanship is purty old fashioned and it seems to be on a fastrac to obsoletion.

Posted by Will Walker on 12-08-2013 05:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
I think we coonhunters must be the slowest bunch on the planet when it comes to accepting change, The sport just isnt like it was 50 years ago, places to hunt have shrunk and at the same time the dogs we hunt go deeper and pack less. The garmin is a great tool,even the guys who critisized them up and down in the beginning now have one on their belt.
Just watch how quick the other KCs. change their policies to keep up.

the other KCs keeping up????????? thats a good one. im sorry but the day im in a hunt with a garmin powered on the whole hunt is the day i go elsewhere to hunt.

Posted by seth isch on 12-08-2013 05:25 PM:

I agree

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Posts: 882

this will be the demise of ukc hunts.....if they think numbers are down now wait til this rule kicks in. i never wouldve imagined leaving a garmin on during a hunt.......JMO

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Posted by john Duemmer on 12-08-2013 05:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Of course we are John. Hell, we still hunt with dogs. On the other hand, houndsmanship is purty old fashioned and it seems to be on a fastrac to obsoletion.

obsoletion ? ........... isnt that a religious thing?

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Posted by Darrell Eads on 12-08-2013 05:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Will Walker
this will be the demise of ukc hunts.....if they think numbers are down now wait til this rule kicks in. i never wouldve imagined leaving a garmin on during a hunt.......JMO

I agree I don't hunt enough ukc hunts to matter to [ know one] , but if a guy can stand there and look at his Garmin while im in a competition hunt with him so he knows what direction his dog is and how far , than I don't want any part of that , so the first weekend of MAY black n tans days has been fun for last 30 years

dumbest rule change ever , in the off position in your pocket is all good , turned on look at it anytime you want , WOW how stupid

And I don't think no one cares about the shocking ability of the alpha or just a shocking device of any kind , as far as im concerned shocking your dog during hunt is to late to be training it anyway

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Posted by Paint Creek English on 12-08-2013 06:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paint Creek English
.what would be wrong with everyone carrying their tracking device of any type in off mode?Only to be used in time out. [/QUOTE

Nothing wrong with it. Nothing wrong with carrying an empty gun either, but it makes them both useless...

"Useless" How in the world do you come up with that?i carry mine all the time with it off after marking my truck and low and behold i find my dogs every time with it when i need it.And guess what else i do?I listen to my dog run and tree a racoon without staring at my garmin,walk to the tree with my useless empty remington 514 load it when i get to the tree and shoot the coon out.Man what a concept!!!They both work as advertised when needed.

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Posted by JiM on 12-08-2013 07:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
obsoletion ? ........... isnt that a religious thing?

I don't know much religion but obsoletion is the process of something becoming obsolete.

Posted by joey on 12-08-2013 08:53 PM:

Come on, Really? Its going to be the end of the hunts? I think that's a bit melodramatic. There are lot of things working against them but I don't think someone being able to look at the Garmin is one of them. What does it matter to you if the guy knows where his dog is when it isn't barking? At least around here my ears have more range than the Garmin. Pkc is the only one left not doing it and you can look for that to change in the future.

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Posted by River Birch Run on 12-08-2013 11:41 PM:

$KC will never change there rule. $KC has hunters on the board set down and work on rule changes. $KC does not change rules based on what company is giving out prizes for a hand full of big hunts.

Posted by Tim MACHA on 12-09-2013 12:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
$KC will never change there rule. $KC has hunters on the board set down and work on rule changes. $KC does not change rules based on what company is giving out prizes for a hand full of big hunts.

If that was the case, I believe the Alphas would have been permitted.

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Posted by joey on 12-09-2013 03:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
$KC will never change there rule. $KC has hunters on the board set down and work on rule changes. $KC does not change rules based on what company is giving out prizes for a hand full of big hunts.

I sat in on a meeting with UKC and a Garmin rep on this issue. From what I gathered ( it was not spelled out but its the point I got from the comment) Ukc was involved or almost involved in law suits over a dog being run over in a hunt. Basically the dog owner said that he had the tool to keep his dog safe and UKC would not allow its use. I don't think this has to do with Garmin as much as it is UKC covering them self.

DISCLAIMER!!! The reps did not say that was the reason, its just how I took a comment.

And by the way the other KC changed a policy for the use of the alpha as soon as it came out. They use hunters and a membership to help make decisions but make no mistake they are a business owned by one man not the membership and at the end of the day they will do what ever they think is best for business.

Posted by bgs2009 on 12-09-2013 01:09 PM:

Id like to see all tracking/training systems allowed. Good for the sport, safety for the dogs, and ensures no time is wasted so we can all get home as soon as possible. Handling in a coonhound should be almost as important quality as tracking and treeing.

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Posted by David Webb on 12-09-2013 03:22 PM:

Safety

"joey posted"
"I sat in on a meeting with UKC and a Garmin rep on this issue. From what I gathered ( it was not spelled out but its the point I got from the comment) Ukc was involved or almost involved in law suits over a dog being run over in a hunt. Basically the dog owner said that he had the tool to keep his dog safe and UKC would not allow its use. I don't think this has to do with Garmin as much as it is UKC covering them self.

DISCLAIMER!!! The reps did not say that was the reason, its just how I took a comment.

And by the way the other KC changed a policy for the use of the alpha as soon as it came out. They use hunters and a membership to help make decisions but make no mistake they are a business owned by one man not the membership and at the end of the day they will do what ever they think is best for business."

Well, Well, Well, I thought there may be more to this Garmin rule concerning the Alpha
The Alpha has a lighted collar option in training mode, but looks like dog safety has not been thought of much on this ruling.
Lighted collars are allowed, but not Alpha lighted collars
Someone at UKC or input from others have put way too much restriction on this "tone" issue.
I would venture a guess that over 80/90% of the dogs entered in our area have NEVER had any "Tone" conditioning.
If my dog gets beat just because some other dog got "toned" looks like I need a better dog, or get whoever "toned" his dog name on the barred list.
JMO
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Posted by CROSS E KENNELS on 12-09-2013 04:50 PM:

I agree on bad decision. We just think there is a lot of problems in the hunts now, just wait till this goes into affect. There will be twice the talk of cheating as there is now. I guarante ya this just opened up the door twice as wide for the guys that want to cheat now.

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Posted by joey on 12-09-2013 09:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CROSS E KENNELS
I agree on bad decision. We just think there is a lot of problems in the hunts now, just wait till this goes into affect. There will be twice the talk of cheating as there is now. I guarante ya this just opened up the door twice as wide for the guys that want to cheat now.

I'm sure there are ways but what door would this open up? What would it do that cant be done now? Besides a cheat will cheat. They have their Garmin on now.

Posted by Donnie Frazier on 12-09-2013 10:01 PM:

Garmin used in Competition

Can someone give me some idea as to how a handler can cheat by using his Garmin?

Maybe Iam way off track with this but IMO there is a lot more cheating going on now without the use of Garmins than there ever would be if they were allowed to be used in competition.

How many times have you seen someone call their dog treed and another handler would argue that it was his dog and not theres.
How many times have you seen guys pitiching there dog on strikes only to hear them in the other direction just a minute later. This is just two small examples of what could happen on any cast. If Garmin's were allowed everyone could plainly see who's dog was where when struck and who's dog was treeing. If a handler is brave enough to tree his dog just because the Garmin says he is treed more power to him. Only problem is the Garmin will also be the first to say he is moving

Cheating is breaking the rules. If Garmins are allowed it is not cheating to use them. Again my question is if the whole cast sat around and called their dogs and watched the Garmin screen how is that cheating? If someone says well Ole Joe called his dog treed and he was out of hearing and had a coon so he beat me. That isn't cheating. Ole Joe's hound deserved those points and won fair and square. IMO

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Posted by travis gideon on 12-09-2013 10:13 PM:

Re: Garmin used in Competition

quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Frazier
Can someone give me some idea as to how a handler can cheat by using his Garmin?

Maybe Iam way off track with this but IMO there is a lot more cheating going on now without the use of Garmins than there ever would be if they were allowed to be used in competition.

How many times have you seen someone call their dog treed and another handler would argue that it was his dog and not theres.
How many times have you seen guys pitiching there dog on strikes only to hear them in the other direction just a minute later. This is just two small examples of what could happen on any cast. If Garmin's were allowed everyone could plainly see who's dog was where when struck and who's dog was treeing. If a handler is brave enough to tree his dog just because the Garmin says he is treed more power to him. Only problem is the Garmin will also be the first to say he is moving

Cheating is breaking the rules. If Garmins are allowed it is not cheating to use them. Again my question is if the whole cast sat around and called their dogs and watched the Garmin screen how is that cheating? If someone says well Ole Joe called his dog treed and he was out of hearing and had a coon so he beat me. That isn't cheating. Ole Joe's hound deserved those points and won fair and square. IMO

Psycho Powered!
Donnie Frazier

Not sure the consern is that people will be calling their dog based on the Garmin (although it'll happen and we'll have to deal with it) it's the fact you'll have 4 people with electronic's going off and telling each other what's going on with their dog, blah, blah, blah and the poor judge will have to direct all the traffic....not all casts will be this way but there will be more to juggle is all.

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Posted by hardtymes on 12-09-2013 10:34 PM:

Travis give them the speech before you turn them loose !!

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Posted by jculler8 on 12-09-2013 10:42 PM:

Re: Garmin used in Competition

quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Frazier
Can someone give me some idea as to how a handler can cheat by using his Garmin?

Maybe Iam way off track with this but IMO there is a lot more cheating going on now without the use of Garmins than there ever would be if they were allowed to be used in competition.

How many times have you seen someone call their dog treed and another handler would argue that it was his dog and not theres.
How many times have you seen guys pitiching there dog on strikes only to hear them in the other direction just a minute later. This is just two small examples of what could happen on any cast. If Garmin's were allowed everyone could plainly see who's dog was where when struck and who's dog was treeing. If a handler is brave enough to tree his dog just because the Garmin says he is treed more power to him. Only problem is the Garmin will also be the first to say he is moving

Cheating is breaking the rules. If Garmins are allowed it is not cheating to use them. Again my question is if the whole cast sat around and called their dogs and watched the Garmin screen how is that cheating? If someone says well Ole Joe called his dog treed and he was out of hearing and had a coon so he beat me. That isn't cheating. Ole Joe's hound deserved those points and won fair and square. IMO

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By watching how my dog works on my Garmin screen, I can usually tell when they are going to strike within about 30 seconds before it happens. FACT

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 12-09-2013 11:07 PM:

Wow........
Video competition coonhunting huhh. I AM getting old!

Posted by Bob Hennessey on 12-09-2013 11:18 PM:

"Lol, Funny I look on UKC board today and they are now allowing garmin usage during the hunts. Think PKC should have been quicker on the draw or at least follow suit. Roads are a problem and I think if we now have the technology then use it!"

Look at what I found on PKC board. They are now argueing about Garmin use just like on here.

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