UKC Forums - Babbler vs Junk runners

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-- Babbler vs Junk runners (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928529308)

Posted by Reuben on 04-25-2020 02:29 AM:

I can’t stand a babbling dog and a grown dog needs to be straight...a trashy 6 month old pup excites me...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Posted by benderb4 on 04-27-2020 06:00 PM:

To accept either one ...IS UNACEPTABLE

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Posted by Reuben on 04-28-2020 01:17 AM:

Trash running hasn’t been a problem for me...I do not see it as a problem... the first thing I do is show them the game I want and have them bay it and want it...the second thing I do is break my pups from trash running on deer and livestock before I take them to the woods...

I want the woods to be a pleasant experience for the pups...

I let a straight dog strike and then I turn the pup in knowing it will run the right game...

If I see fresh sign I will cast the pup and chances are he will strike the right game...once he knows the woods is a fun place I will shock him off other trash...

If a certain type of trash is a problem I will break them off of it in my back yard...

Years ago I had some sure enough gamey mtn curs that were extremely trashy...it was a nightmare trying to get a handle and breaking them off of unwanted game...these pups turned out to be the best I ever hunted and every generation were basically the same...but I thought out a strategy and perfected it and problem solved with little fine tuning here and there...

A pup that doesn’t trash at all might never hunt at all...

A super trashy pup has the potential to make a super hunting dog...

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Posted by novicane65 on 04-28-2020 02:09 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Reuben
Trash running hasn’t been a problem for me...I do not see it as a problem... the first thing I do is show them the game I want and have them bay it and want it...the second thing I do is break my pups from trash running on deer and livestock before I take them to the woods...

I want the woods to be a pleasant experience for the pups...

I let a straight dog strike and then I turn the pup in knowing it will run the right game...

If I see fresh sign I will cast the pup and chances are he will strike the right game...once he knows the woods is a fun place I will shock him off other trash...

If a certain type of trash is a problem I will break them off of it in my back yard...

Years ago I had some sure enough gamey mtn curs that were extremely trashy...it was a nightmare trying to get a handle and breaking them off of unwanted game...these pups turned out to be the best I ever hunted and every generation were basically the same...but I thought out a strategy and perfected it and problem solved with little fine tuning here and there...

A pup that doesn’t trash at all might never hunt at all...

A super trashy pup has the potential to make a super hunting dog...

Reuben,

I know what I prefer in a young dog. I don't fool with pups too much. But in young dogs I don't mind 1 that will run junk. I sure don't like 1 barking at the air just to hear itself bark. In a perfect world a pup or young dog only runs the wanted game and never trashes. But I've never seen 1 that I like that's been naturally straight. They don't have the "IT" factor for me. A gamey pup or young dogs need drive and heart. I think a bunch of them get broke off trash too young and it breaks their spirit. We've let the last bunch run whatever their noses find exciting. And we slowly break them off the trash. And so far its been completely different worlds in actions of them at 15-18 months old vs what we had before.

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
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And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

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Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

Posted by walkerfan on 04-28-2020 01:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
Reuben,

I know what I prefer in a young dog. I don't fool with pups too much. But in young dogs I don't mind 1 that will run junk. I sure don't like 1 barking at the air just to hear itself bark. In a perfect world a pup or young dog only runs the wanted game and never trashes. But I've never seen 1 that I like that's been naturally straight. They don't have the "IT" factor for me. A gamey pup or young dogs need drive and heart. I think a bunch of them get broke off trash too young and it breaks their spirit. We've let the last bunch run whatever their noses find exciting. And we slowly break them off the trash. And so far its been completely different worlds in actions of them at 15-18 months old vs what we had before.

X2!!

Posted by pamjohnson on 04-28-2020 02:17 PM:

Eric I think you have a great plan and it sounds like it's working for you. I don't like mine trashing but I agree with ya in that I like them gamey.
Although I have seen some dogs that didn't care for particular off game and still had a strong desire and drive. It's hard to get everything under 1 collar.

Posted by novicane65 on 04-28-2020 02:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
Eric I think you have a great plan and it sounds like it's working for you. I don't like mine trashing but I agree with ya in that I like them gamey.
Although I have seen some dogs that didn't care for particular off game and still had a strong desire and drive. It's hard to get everything under 1 collar.

You're definitely not wrong with everything under 1 collar. But here's what got us to change a little bit of our thinking on the trash part. Most of time back in the 80's and before that dogs in general had more track speed because the dogs learned how to track by running anything that laid a track when they were young. Guys had to run the dogs down to correct them vs just pressing a button. But the dogs had more speed in comparison to today because they learned how to "run" a track. And we know there's some that can do it more naturally than others. But what we found was even the "natural" track drivers got even better in our opinion. Now by the time the young dog is 15-18 months they're mostly broke from the trash running. Occasionally we'll have a trash race happen but for the most part we don't have much issue with it.

Posted by pamjohnson on 04-29-2020 02:37 PM:

Eric

I never did believe that line about dogs becoming better, faster track dogs from running offgame. Still to this day I don't buy it. I sure don't see dogs broke of offgame by 2 years old much. Matter of fact I don't see many honest broke old dogs unfortunately.
What I have seen is there either track dogs born in um or not. Not much in between experience teaches them some but for the most part there born with ability and speed or there not.
But i certainly agree that the shocking collar can take the desire out of a dog young or old real fast if used to hard and to often which may be very little usage on some dogs.

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