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-- Lets test your breeding skills. I am stumped. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928464386)

I'll take a stab at this...

I think all this stuff about breeding track or tree blood, up north or down south, swamps or mountains is all a bunch of bs. If you breed for BRAINS your dog should be able to adapt to any type of hunting area you throw at him, it might take a few nights but if he's smart it won't take them long to figure things out. And I also believe you can't get what you want breeding one certain dog, they must have generations of strong genetics behind them. jmo,

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Bruce

Hey Bruce you want my honest opinion on this well I'll give it to you !! Like you said pack up a dog and send it to someone you don't even know ! Yep lol when I got mongo I thought you had lost your mind sending him to me !! I knew when you told me his name I had seen where him and Corey done well at the SS and I was happy as a lark to get him !! I know he was short eared lol I didn't know his caliber of dog but I know he was a nice dog !! When I got mongo down this way I took him hunting and I was very impressed !! I hunted him hard and I put in this local even called track down for cancer and I still have people ask me about mongo and that hunt !! That final 4 play by play is still getting comments a year later lol !! Mongo was hard headed but in my opinion the good dogs are very hard headed and I would gladly turn mongo off my lead anytime !! He has drive like no other dog I have hunted and I've been doing this a long time !! That is one of the two most important traits to me on a dog and the other is heart !! You turn mongo loose and he goes just as hard on the first drop as the last !! Just all and all glad I got the opportunity to turn him out and Bruce , if any of them pups have the drive and nose that mongo had and your stuck with two of them you know my number call me and we will definitely get one of those bad boys in the timber !! Gladly take care buddy I'll see you around !! Just another thing ol Bruce Conkey is one of the most stand up guys you will ever meet and will go outta his way to help a man out thanks for that Bruce that's the kind of stuff people remember !!!!

Re: .

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Guys there is some real interesting reading here and I appreciate it and I am sure there are others that could possibly learn some things from this post. In coonhunting when I say learn things I don't mean what you read was fact and you should do it. I mean remember what you read and if you see it play out in your pen or your buddies pen then the light bulb goes off and you say. There must be something to that and you build upon that and try to do it again.

Marshall Ayres glad you posted on here. Think you know me well enough to know I tell it like I see it in a dog. Because I own the dog I don't necessarily say nice things about him. Dog in particular is MONGO. I called you when I was thinking about buying him. You gave me your honest opinion and I appreciated it. Like you mentioned in your post about geographic locations, that fit MONGO perfectly when I got him down here in all this water.
To be perfectly truthful MONGO after about a month of being here and being exposed to this water and a varmint called Armadillo was totally worthless. Probably more the Armadillo than is was the water. I expressed that to you and I understand that didn't sound like the dog your hunted with.
He would get out of the truck and actually listen for them Armadillos in the bushes and when turned loose that is all he started looking for. Marshall I think you know MONGO has a mind of his own and is extremely hard headed. I knew I could break him from them things but I might also break his spirit because it was going to take a lot discipline to make it happen. I saw a young guy on here that I didn't know say he was looking for a dog to hunt. Jeremy Vaught in TN who just won 8th in the ACHA world hunt last week. I contacted Jeremy and sent him MONGO. He got him back on coon as there is no Armadillos up there to run. After understanding what he was suppose to run again I got him back down here and he is a different dog. Most people would never pack up a dog and send them off to someone they didn't know, but that was my plan for fixing his problem because beating and shocking him every night wasn't working. My plan worked and I am Thankful to Jeremy in TN and also you Marshall for being honest with me about MONGO.
Marshall we talk about a dogs styles on there and I would like your opinion on MONGO's style. I say he has them all wrapped up in one hound. He hunts hard and does his thing to tree a coon every time he is cut loose.
Here is my question and I need a second opinion on this. I think we would agree he is hard headed because he is so determined. Here is what I am trying to figure out. Is that because he is extremely smart or extremely dumb. How would you rate him. You won't hurt my feelings as I just want the truth and spend everyday trying to figure these dogs out. I just bred him for the first time and man the pups are nice. Again Thanks Marshall for talking to me before I purchased him and listening to the complaining I did after I purchased him. We got the bugs worked out and he will probably be one that dies here. Guys MONGO is living proof that dogs operate differently in different geographic locations He was a dog that needed a bullet down here but won over $7,000 up north in several states last year and treed a truck load of coon for Jeremy in the TN mountains just for fun. Took some time but we we have it worked out so he is operating down here now as well as up North.

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Mongo will be around here for a while. He has bonded to me even though I said bad things about him.

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breeding

I'm kinda green but I think 60% of the traits a pup gets come from the dam. Over and over you breed but it seems like the pups I keep acts like the dam and grandma more than the sires side. This is just my experience.

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breeding

I'm kinda green but I think 60% of the traits a pup gets come from the dam. Over and over you breed but it seems like the pups I keep acts like the dam and grandma more than the sires side. This is just my experience.

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I thought that it was pretty well understood in the walker dog world that if you wanted more tree you bred to Rat Attack (Sackett Jr)and if you wanted more track you bred to Wipeout (Coma)?

Re: Re: ?

quote:

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Originally posted by N Williams
I've learned in breeding hot and cold don't equal warm.

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Hey Bruce.How are the pups out of Wipeout Blaze turning out?

Re: Lets test your breeding skills. I am stumped.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Lets say you have a line of hounds but you want some more tree power in it. Where would you look. I can think of serval lines to Walker Dogs and if you just wanted tree power some lines of squirrel dogs would even help.

Now you want more tracking ability. Where do you look? My be a long look.

Part two! I do not believe dogs from the Frozen North have to have a colder nose to tree coon on ice and snow. Maybe the tracks are more scarce cause the coon are sticking close to home but I just don't see the colder nose thing.

I also don't see the colder nose thing for big game hounds out west. People talk about the heat and two day old tracks.

The west and the frozen north have one thing that makes tracking easier than my swamps down here in FL. That is your humidity which is next to nothing. One thing that affects tracking ability in a hound is humidity.

This should get some people calling me names. Be gentle as I am thin skinned. lol

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Always be yourself because the people that matter dont mind and the people that mind dont matter.Rock River Plotts

Well Bruce most people got off the question you asked and went on to something else but too just name 3 bloodlines that I know can run cold tracks and do it in style is the clover,Finley River Chief and Kansas Dancer bloodlines.

Don't take my word for it just ask Joe Newlin The clover connection John Monroe Finley River bloodlines or owners of the Kansas Dancer bloodlines like Greg Minkler, Olie Smith and others about the Dancer bloodlines.

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Critter there was an article published in the American Cooner several years ago when a group of hunters kept track of trees with coon in them and trees without coon. Same dogs used.
When the humidity was lower the % increased on the trees having coon in them. I am just reporting, please don't shoot the reporter.

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Great post Bruce!!

It’s nice to join and take part in a thread in which the participants are interested in one another’s opinion rather than fighting over it. In full disclosure, I should say that I strongly believe in genetic breeding. You can’t put brown poop in a bowl and mix it with yellow poop and expect it to be a bowl of chocolates. I don’t disagree with anything I’ve read on this post, but as I sum up what I’ve read so far I see this nose thing getting more interesting as we go along. Yes the brain has to be developed properly, but now we get more into genetics. Some dogs glide through the woods, others push their way through. They can both tree a coon but guess who usually gets there first. We’ve all seen the athletic dogs. Their gene pool allows them to often run at full speed with their head in the air. We call it drifting a track. I think this is something you can breed for. Intelligence is another trait that I think is genetic. An intelligent dog figures out where to look for the coon when turned loose. An average dog just goes hunting. They both will tree a coon, but guess who usually trees first. I think you can breed for that also to some degree. Maybe I’m barking up the wrong tree here but what do you guys think? Thanks for reading.

Vic McMillan

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Agree 100%

If I was goimg to get a dog that I thought would have the coon when I would try to get one without any or hardly any Sacket Jr. in it and had the old breed like Dancer and Table rock flying hawk Gold creek mondo and most of all Spring Creek Rock.

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Re: I'll take a stab at this...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by duvall
I think all this stuff about breeding track or tree blood, up north or down south, swamps or mountains is all a bunch of bs. If you breed for BRAINS your dog should be able to adapt to any type of hunting area you throw at him, it might take a few nights but if he's smart it won't take them long to figure things out. And I also believe you can't get what you want breeding one certain dog, they must have generations of strong genetics behind them. jmo, [/QUOTE

I agree with this statement if you are discussing dogs with a very high level of ability. There are very few dogs at the top level and they also have a very high intelligence. One of the distinguishing characteristics of outstanding dogs is that they aren't affected by where you hunt them or what the weather conditions are. BRAINS are genetic. Winning a lot of hunts can be more the result of a dog who performs to optimize the hunt rules instead of a dog that has a high level of ability.
Winning a lot of hunts may be the results of a dog that performs to optimize the HUNT RULES instead of a dog that has a high level of ability.
This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Hello Bruce,

Humidity makes scenting easier. Just consider the dog's collar that was sprayed by a skunk several weeks ago and what happens when it gets wet. Extremely dry and hot usually means low humidity. That is why people out west like a lot of nose. The other reason is the expanse of the area. The longer it takes to cross a track, the track is likely older. Actually, it is quite simple.

The same can be said up north in the extreme cold = low humidity. If the coons move at all it is usually early in the night. I am a family man and seldom get out right after dark hence what little tracks there might be are going to be older. There is also the whole crystal clear night atmosphere. Temperatures can plunge here in the north. All heat is rapidly lost to the upper atmosphere. This affects the coons ability to maintain its temperature and it also affect scent.

As far as wet conditions, I always hunt my young dogs in the nastiest, swampiest mess I can find in the spring and summer. I find that if you hunt a fast improving young dog in the nastiest hole you can find and they can tree a coon there they should be able to tree a coon anywhere. Oh, Bruce don't doubt just how nasty Michigan swamps can be. Anyway, my experience is running in water is easily learned by a smart dog.

As far as the breeding questions, if you want more of something go to someone who is breeding a line of dogs known for producing what you want. I would suggest that due to where you live you might want to go ask those same questions of Mr. Winston Aaron. Just from what I have been told 2nd hand, I suspect it would be a conversation right up your alley.

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Re: I'll take a stab at this...

quote:

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Originally posted by duvall
I think all this stuff about breeding track or tree blood, up north or down south, swamps or mountains is all a bunch of bs. If you breed for BRAINS your dog should be able to adapt to any type of hunting area you throw at him, it might take a few nights but if he's smart it won't take them long to figure things out. And I also believe you can't get what you want breeding one certain dog, they must have generations of strong genetics behind them. jmo,

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Re: .mongo

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Mongo will be around here for a while. He has bonded to me even though I said bad things about him.

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tracking

Hi,

That is a simple fix. Try Mr Quick, he came from good fox hounds. Finley River Dan linebred hounds. Rambler hounds. Either way you go, will vastly improve tracking ability. And, these strains were balanced.
Good Hunting,
Robert Starke

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"Fast is Good. Accuracy is Everything." Wyatt Earp

Bruce I am not sure about the hole cold and hot nosed thing. They have service dogs that can smell changes in peoples blood. If they can do that then every hound can smell a stinking coon track that the other dog is running. Its desire that decides if they run it or not.


As far as treeing is concerned we have plenty of that what we lost was locating ability. Im hunting a dog that 9 out of 10 den trees he makes have coon on the outside. You tell me why that is? During this season when I was hunting him by himself I started noticing that he would be looking at where the coon was in the tree. If we could breed for that I think we would all have a lot more fun. He runs every track head up and catches a lot of coon on the ground, I think it all comes from how he has learned to use his nose not how much of it he has.

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its genetics and it comes from selective breeding we bred two hounds that were brothers average nose on both to two gyps one had a cold nose track ability that we coon hunted in the daytime but the other hot nosed the gyps had the same amount of pups at the same time both had 9 so 18 pups total the cold nosed gyp out the nine we had two with her nose one male and one female the others had same nose as the dad the other nine all turned out with hot noses so we raised all these pups to see what worked out and what didnt our experience is the better the gyp the better the odds

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Intelligence and prey drive, and in that order. JMO

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Bruce

You just got what your looking for in that bone pup