Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Lets say you have a line of hounds but you want some more tree power in it. Where would you look. I can think of serval lines to Walker Dogs and if you just wanted tree power some lines of squirrel dogs would even help.

Now you want more tracking ability. Where do you look? My be a long look.

Part two! I do not believe dogs from the Frozen North have to have a colder nose to tree coon on ice and snow. Maybe the tracks are more scarce cause the coon are sticking close to home but I just don't see the colder nose thing.

I also don't see the colder nose thing for big game hounds out west. People talk about the heat and two day old tracks.

The west and the frozen north have one thing that makes tracking easier than my swamps down here in FL. That is your humidity which is next to nothing. One thing that affects tracking ability in a hound is humidity.

This should get some people calling me names. Be gentle as I am thin skinned. lol

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Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Bearden AR
Posts: 1735

I'm not a walker guy but if I were looking for more tree power, sackett Jr blood would be what I would get. For tracking ability, that's tougher. Maybe some Hayes blood

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

myself!! I go get a female!! try to get balance in one!!regardless the line!! same as male!! those I keep!! as far as the south verses the north in winter!! all I can say !! when it snows and freezes and ground is froze!!! had rather hunt the unfrozen swamps any day. So come on up all you rebels!! lets hunt this Yankee land!!!lol

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

Well Bruce this might sting just a little but here goes, LOL.

First things first. Since you like and hunt the Walker breed you are already at a disadvantage for finding a colder nosed hound, but cold nosed is not what you want at this time. If I'm reading your question correctly, You are looking for more track dog.

Now my question to you is this; are you wanting a faster Trailing hound, or a blazing fast hot track dog.

It is very difficult to get both in one package, but if pure track speed is what you are looking for on a hot track, (since I know nothing about the walker breed) I would suggest going hunting with some local fox hunters and breed to the fastest tracking fox hound I could find. If I was looking for a faster trailing dog, I would then look for the best (fox hound what they call a ) Starting dog. Up in my parts a good starting dog is one that will trail and drift up on a fox. The old timers called coursing a track. They seemed to be able to go in the general direction the track was taking them and swinging 50 to 100 yards between the spots where they actually smelled scent.

Since I know you like walkers, and fox hounds look like walkers, I would begin my search with the toughest fox hounds I could find. You will then find a great track dog.

I remember sitting on those hills when I was a young ladd, and hearing those (not as fast) fox hounds drop out of a hot fox race that they were not able to keep up with, and sit down and start treeing. I went to them a couple of times, and they would be treeing on a tree. Isn't that where the walker hounds started from anyway?? Just kidding on that last statement, but I did go to a few fox hounds that were treeing, LOL.

Not what you wanted to hear (I'm sure) from a breeders perspective, but that is one area I would not be afraid to look at if I were hunting your breed of choice. Good Luck!!!

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

quote:

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Originally posted by Rocketman55
Well Bruce this might sting just a little but here goes, LOL.

First things first. Since you like and hunt the Walker breed you are already at a disadvantage for finding a colder nosed hound, but cold nosed is not what you want at this time. If I'm reading your question correctly, You are looking for more track dog.

Now my question to you is this; are you wanting a faster Trailing hound, or a blazing fast hot track dog.

It is very difficult to get both in one package, but if pure track speed is what you are looking for on a hot track, (since I know nothing about the walker breed) I would suggest going hunting with some local fox hunters and breed to the fastest tracking fox hound I could find. If I was looking for a faster trailing dog, I would then look for the best (fox hound what they call a ) Starting dog. Up in my parts a good starting dog is one that will trail and drift up on a fox. The old timers called coursing a track. They seemed to be able to go in the general direction the track was taking them and swinging 50 to 100 yards between the spots where they actually smelled scent.

Since I know you like walkers, and fox hounds look like walkers, I would begin my search with the toughest fox hounds I could find. You will then find a great track dog.

I remember sitting on those hills when I was a young ladd, and hearing those (not as fast) fox hounds drop out of a hot fox race that they were not able to keep up with, and sit down and start treeing. I went to them a couple of times, and they would be treeing on a tree. Isn't that where the walker hounds started from anyway?? Just kidding on that last statement, but I did go to a few fox hounds that were treeing, LOL.

Not what you wanted to hear (I'm sure) from a breeders perspective, but that is one area I would not be afraid to look at if I were hunting your breed of choice. Good Luck!!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1610

I guess if a hound is panting, that does effect their trailing but temp and barometer seems to be the two tuff things for my hounds to handle. Roy Blakesley said that a track at 32 degrees is very tuff on a hound and I know that if the smoke is rising out of the chimney or if it's rolling back down the roof if we are going to run the heck out of the coyotes or if it's going to be slow tracking. This is with the same hounds, hunting 3 to 4 times a week. Smoke rising and 10 below, I've seen them run heads up and be 20 or so yards off the track (tracks in snow don't lie) and 35 above and a falling barometer, I wonder why I even feed those biscuit eaters.

BUT if I'm coonhunting and one of them doesn't know there's a track while the others are going a nice job of trailing??? Don't need to feed that kind.

Also age can effect the smelling ability of your hound so if I have a 2 or 3 year old that is out performing a 9 year old on the track, and the old guy was good in his day, I just live with it and enjoy the memories.

I would say that most today don't really like a true cold nose hound like the houndsmen did 30 to 50 years ago. With a lot hunting feeders and most wanting points over hides, why would you,UNLESS you still enjoy sitting on a log, and listening to Old Spot, Red and Blue work an old track to the tree.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1630

Bruce, You already know what I will say, but I will say it anyway
For my track I like Lipper and Coma, plus there good to listen too also.
Then for tree certain lines of the Yadkin River stuff.

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location: sand hills
Posts: 356

mr , bruce you stumped me out of the gate on this one when you said adding squirrel dog to add tree , we have squirrel dogs here up to a 4 way cross but hound was added to them for more tree and go power.

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Moonshine man thanks for teaching me something.

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Central Pa
Posts: 1114

quote:

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Originally posted by moonshine man
mr , bruce you stumped me out of the gate on this one when you said adding squirrel dog to add tree , we have squirrel dogs here up to a 4 way cross but hound was added to them for more tree and go power.

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Bois d'Arc, MO.
Posts: 1823

Well Bruce I think a guy has to breed for what works for him. Nobody in this world is looking out for my best interests or what I like in a hound. I wouldn't expect a man to breed for a trailing type dog if he doesn't need it, or breed for a quick tree dog if he doesn't need it. If i see a dog locally that has traits I like then it's smart to go after those traits! But if I draw a dog and I walk to six circle trees in two hrs. I'm probably not goin after that!lol no matter how loud or how good a tree dog! I would have assumed that there were guys in the state's that you mentioned that are serious about having a top hound why wouldn't you just go to them or breed to the ones you like from your area?

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Registered: Mar 2013
Location: Rover,Arkansas
Posts: 1133

quote:

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Originally posted by rob thompson
Well Bruce I think a guy has to breed for what works for him. Nobody in this world is looking out for my best interests or what I like in a hound. I wouldn't expect a man to breed for a trailing type dog if he doesn't need it, or breed for a quick tree dog if he doesn't need it. If i see a dog locally that has traits I like then it's smart to go after those traits! But if I draw a dog and I walk to six circle trees in two hrs. I'm probably not goin after that!lol no matter how loud or how good a tree dog! I would have assumed that there were guys in the state's that you mentioned that are serious about having a top hound why wouldn't you just go to them or breed to the ones you like from your area?

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Registered: Mar 2011
Location: candler nc
Posts: 1404

Bruce,

For my two cents. , you seem like the man who is willing to listen and consider things very well. Instead of looking for something in the blood try looking at this geographically. Compare the dogs location to your specific need. If you need a hound that will be a great track dog then look to a hound that comes from tall, steep mountain or deep swamp land. If that specific hound can excel in conditions where it is truly difficult to tree a Coon then it might have the traits to pass on to a litter of pups that you would like to see. I live in the mountains of western nc, here we have walkers from all over the board when it comes to blood lines. There isn't a specific bloodline that runs a track better in the mountains, rather it's a specific dog that runs a track in the mountains. I had 2 littermates, both looked, sounded, acted very similar but one couldn't tree a Coon here to save his life. We moved him off the mountain and he's missed 2 times in 35 nights of hunting since. what I'm saying is all hounds have a nose, but it takes the right hound to back its nose up with heart.

If it were me I'd be looking for a hound that comes from a land of few Coons that is very accurate. Then you should have a better chance of getting what your looking for.

Don't worry so much about the blood. Harry and rebel were night and day. Their pups are respectfully night and day. You hear people refer to it as Harry blood or rebel blood but aren't they really just Hayes blood????

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1566

After thinking this over I'd say it's easier to tree a wet swamp Coon every day of the week than on hard frozen ground. The frozen ground won't hold scent very long. But add in some snow and you got better odds of the scent holding longer.

Im not an expert on the any breed or lines. But I'd try to find a dog that fit the bill. Just like Marshall suggested.

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Registered: May 2010
Location:
Posts: 1795

Bruce I'm a B&T man but I'm not color blind by no means . A hound has to have " Desire & Brains " . If they have both and if hunted HARD in all types of conditions especially in the winter their tracking ability will be better than most . Most people have to many dogs in their kennel to hunt one hard . I use to hunt walkers way back but I've always like the Flag bred hounds . As far as treeing goes just take your pick . Lol

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Registered: Jun 2015
Location: South Georgia
Posts: 76

How would it work to cross the best fox hound around with a good cold nosed blood hound and take them pups and breed to a strong line of tree dog crossed with a good track running fox hound? In my thinking with a blessing from the good Lord that would produce a cold nosed, track driving machine that would tree.

Last edited by SwampCreekHound on 10-13-2016 at 01:46 AM

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Registered: Dec 2010
Location:
Posts: 1201

quote:

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Originally posted by SwampCreekHound
How would it work to cross the best fox hound around with a good cold nosed blood hound and take them pups and breed to a strong line of tree dog crossed with a good track running fox hound? In my thinking with a blessing from the good Lord that would produce a cold nosed, track driving machine that would tree.

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Registered: Mar 2011
Location: candler nc
Posts: 1404

quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
After thinking this over I'd say it's easier to tree a wet swamp Coon every day of the week than on hard frozen ground. The frozen ground won't hold scent very long. But add in some snow and you got better odds of the scent holding longer.

Im not an expert on the any breed or lines. But I'd try to find a dog that fit the bill. Just like Marshall suggested.

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Registered: Mar 2011
Location: candler nc
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quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
After thinking this over I'd say it's easier to tree a wet swamp Coon every day of the week than on hard frozen ground. The frozen ground won't hold scent very long. But add in some snow and you got better odds of the scent holding longer.

Im not an expert on the any breed or lines. But I'd try to find a dog that fit the bill. Just like Marshall suggested.

---

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

quote:

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Originally posted by SwampCreekHound
How would it work to cross the best fox hound around with a good cold nosed blood hound and take them pups and breed to a strong line of tree dog crossed with a good track running fox hound? In my thinking with a blessing from the good Lord that would produce a cold nosed, track driving machine that would tree.

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location: sand hills
Posts: 356

quote:

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Originally posted by SwampCreekHound
How would it work to cross the best fox hound around with a good cold nosed blood hound and take them pups and breed to a strong line of tree dog crossed with a good track running fox hound? In my thinking with a blessing from the good Lord that would produce a cold nosed, track driving machine that would tree.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: AR
Posts: 295

I don't think the answer to adding more tree is necessarily breeding to a dog that comes from a tree happy line. I look for a stud that has the traits that I want my dogs to have. When it comes to track running a want a dog to be able to move whatever they strike. I don't mind one taking a little bit to get it lined out but I don't want it cold trailing for an hour either and I sure don't want one that stands on its head. The dog has to have enough brains to know if it can work the track or needs to pass it up to keep looking for something it can work. The walker lines that has several that run track like I like is wipeout, skuna river, clover and coma. I've seen some wipeout and coma dogs that just wasn't tree minded enough for me. I think adding the skuna river blood helps to balance out the tracking and treeing while maintaining the tracking ability.

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Registered: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1650

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Lets say you have a line of hounds but you want some more tree power in it. Where would you look. I can think of serval lines to Walker Dogs and if you just wanted tree power some lines of squirrel dogs would even help.

Now you want more tracking ability. Where do you look? My be a long look.

Part two! I do not believe dogs from the Frozen North have to have a colder nose to tree coon on ice and snow. Maybe the tracks are more scarce cause the coon are sticking close to home but I just don't see the colder nose thing.

I also don't see the colder nose thing for big game hounds out west. People talk about the heat and two day old tracks.

The west and the frozen north have one thing that makes tracking easier than my swamps down here in FL. That is your humidity which is next to nothing. One thing that affects tracking ability in a hound is humidity.

This should get some people calling me names. Be gentle as I am thin skinned. lol

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Kell, Il
Posts: 169

OK.....

I am going to crawl out on a limb here......

As , I can see that not all dogs are created equal!!!
Just as humans aren't!!! sad as it is!!!!

So .....

One would need to breed from what they see!!!!

But, YES , there is always a BUT!!!!

Might just want to look at BREEDING, or training , the ones training the dogs?

I can not even guess how many dogs have been ruined by the trainer????? I say that as I even see it posted by many that.....


I had a GOOD ONE!!!! but I made this that or the other mistake!!!!


AKA.... A hunter, goes on a hunt with a GREAT TREE DOG!!!
Sees what he just loves!!! So he breeds to said dog, or buys a pup form said dog.... (be it from a Stud , or Female?) Boy , ole so an so is a REAL TREE DOG!!!!

So , They expect that pup to TREE the same!!!!!

So that hunter sure trains , expects that PUP to TREE that way!!!! They put it into that PUP!!!! So it TREES!!!! every TREE in the woods!!! maybe even fence posts , electric lines , ect......


Point being.... It is not all or even close to how one is crossed on this or that!!!!

It takes the dog having BRAINS!!!! And the one TRAINING it to have more under there LIGHT!!!!! Than just some hair, or their lack of it!!!

LMFAO!!!


THERE!!!! I said it....


What SAY y'all?????

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Guys there is some real interesting reading here and I appreciate it and I am sure there are others that could possibly learn some things from this post. In coonhunting when I say learn things I don't mean what you read was fact and you should do it. I mean remember what you read and if you see it play out in your pen or your buddies pen then the light bulb goes off and you say. There must be something to that and you build upon that and try to do it again.

Marshall Ayres glad you posted on here. Think you know me well enough to know I tell it like I see it in a dog. Because I own the dog I don't necessarily say nice things about him. Dog in particular is MONGO. I called you when I was thinking about buying him. You gave me your honest opinion and I appreciated it. Like you mentioned in your post about geographic locations, that fit MONGO perfectly when I got him down here in all this water.
To be perfectly truthful MONGO after about a month of being here and being exposed to this water and a varmint called Armadillo was totally worthless. Probably more the Armadillo than is was the water. I expressed that to you and I understand that didn't sound like the dog your hunted with.
He would get out of the truck and actually listen for them Armadillos in the bushes and when turned loose that is all he started looking for. Marshall I think you know MONGO has a mind of his own and is extremely hard headed. I knew I could break him from them things but I might also break his spirit because it was going to take a lot discipline to make it happen. I saw a young guy on here that I didn't know say he was looking for a dog to hunt. Jeremy Vaught in TN who just won 8th in the ACHA world hunt last week. I contacted Jeremy and sent him MONGO. He got him back on coon as there is no Armadillos up there to run. After understanding what he was suppose to run again I got him back down here and he is a different dog. Most people would never pack up a dog and send them off to someone they didn't know, but that was my plan for fixing his problem because beating and shocking him every night wasn't working. My plan worked and I am Thankful to Jeremy in TN and also you Marshall for being honest with me about MONGO.
Marshall we talk about a dogs styles on there and I would like your opinion on MONGO's style. I say he has them all wrapped up in one hound. He hunts hard and does his thing to tree a coon every time he is cut loose.
Here is my question and I need a second opinion on this. I think we would agree he is hard headed because he is so determined. Here is what I am trying to figure out. Is that because he is extremely smart or extremely dumb. How would you rate him. You won't hurt my feelings as I just want the truth and spend everyday trying to figure these dogs out. I just bred him for the first time and man the pups are nice. Again Thanks Marshall for talking to me before I purchased him and listening to the complaining I did after I purchased him. We got the bugs worked out and he will probably be one that dies here. Guys MONGO is living proof that dogs operate differently in different geographic locations He was a dog that needed a bullet down here but won over $7,000 up north in several states last year and treed a truck load of coon for Jeremy in the TN mountains just for fun. Took some time but we we have it worked out so he is operating down here now as well as up North.

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