UKC Forums - Before choosing the 2014 site, UKC should do this.

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-- Before choosing the 2014 site, UKC should do this. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928339563)

Posted by Lone Pine JB on 09-23-2013 07:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
The logistics of putting on the big hunts has to be an ever increaseing nightmare for the guys at UKC.
Finding a host club that can provide the facilities required along with good safe hunting and enough qualified people to put alot of dogs in the woods has to be a challenge, Add to that an area that can provide lodgeing for a bunch of stinky hunters and their dogs and the list of places probably gets pretty short.
The southern guys seem to think thin coon is a better test and those of us from the north think a good coon population reduces the luck factor.
Im sure that Jim is right when he says the 105 will be there no matter where they have to drive but The zones is probably where the $ is for UKC. and lots of hunters wont attend the zones if they are looking at a couple thousand mile trip to the finals. I would think UKC. could stick a pin in the map that would be within 5 or 6 hundred miles of the vast majority of its members that are active hunters. From a business perspective thats gotta be the smart move.

John, that's good thinking. And that may be what they did this year. Can't get much closer to the geographical center of the eastern US than E-town.
But why not bump it just a bit further north and get into a better coon population, maybe around Cincinnati?
I'd like to see it in an area with a medium coon population and an abundance of quality guides. I like the idea of a dog having to work, but they need the opportunity to do it.
I think having it in the same place each year would greatly simplify the logistics of such an event. Same host club, same lodging hotels,
Zones and finals can be a significant cost. If I'm spending the cash to go to the Zones and then to the finals, I'd really want to have a good chance to tree a few coon. In Round 1, 15% (4 of 26) of casts were dead cast or didn't make deadline because of travel distance. Round 3 had 40% (2 of 5) dead casts. And the final cast barely scored a coon.

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Posted by prostockpat on 09-23-2013 07:45 PM:

Anywhere...

As long as theres NO leaves on!!
Wayyy to many "circle" last cpl. of years.
More coon,more split trees instead of alot of "me too'n".

Time to weed out the tree dogs and enter the "coondog"!!
After all,isn't that what the competition is all about....to see who has the best coondog?

Oct 30-Nov. 1st,very southern,mi.
bow season been in a month,gun season don't come in for 2 more weeks.
The deer "nuts" shouldn't have a problem.

Posted by prostockpat on 09-23-2013 07:53 PM:

btw;

Beyond belief,we don't tree coon every 100 yards either!!!

Dogs will still have to hunt and above all....have coon in the tree!!

Posted by jdc on 09-23-2013 09:10 PM:

I think the UKC world should be held where there is a good chance of all casts scoring on a coon or 2 or 3. I wasn't there is year because I didn't get through the zones so I have no opinion on what the hunting there was like. In general I think if you are going to require plus points to advance then have the hunt in good coon populations. I enjoy treeing coons more than just waiting for dogs anyway.

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 09-23-2013 09:29 PM:

Get real guys. NFL, MLB, and so on doesn't allow the teams from this year to pick the spots for next year. They decide where the grand events will be held. Yes, i know baseball is in the two clubs cities, but the Super Bowl location is not picked by any team. The NFL picks it after investigating the locations some. Why would UKC want to let someone else pick their Super Bowl spot? Never Happen. Committee of one picks the location, and it should stay that way. If you want to be a champion in a certain year, you have a choice. Simple too. Go and be seen, or stay home and complain as most will do anyway. jmo

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Posted by Scary Creek on 09-23-2013 09:38 PM:

why not pick a general centralized place a leave it there ? to me personally have it where the coon are ! ohio , Indiana , Illinois . corn field country ! stop coming to swamps , thin coon country , and rugged straight up and down terrain . that has a lot to do with people hunting rqes and zones on were they have the world at and if its worth attending .

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Posted by perry co cooner on 09-23-2013 09:47 PM:

Re: Anywhere...

quote:
Originally posted by prostockpat
As long as theres NO leaves on!!
Wayyy to many "circle" last cpl. of years.
More coon,more split trees instead of alot of "me too'n".

Time to weed out the tree dogs and enter the "coondog"!!
After all,isn't that what the competition is all about....to see who has the best coondog?

Oct 30-Nov. 1st,very southern,mi.
bow season been in a month,gun season don't come in for 2 more weeks.
The deer "nuts" shouldn't have a problem.

I don't think we have to worry about a me too dog winning any world hunt in any kennel club. They're weeded out way before the final cast. These are among the best comp hunters in the country that make it to the final cast plus 2 non hunting judges. I'm confident all involved in the final cast know the rules and enforce them.

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Posted by jculler8 on 09-23-2013 09:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
The logistics of putting on the big hunts has to be an ever increaseing nightmare for the guys at UKC.
Finding a host club that can provide the facilities required along with good safe hunting and enough qualified people to put alot of dogs in the woods has to be a challenge, Add to that an area that can provide lodgeing for a bunch of stinky hunters and their dogs and the list of places probably gets pretty short.
The southern guys seem to think thin coon is a better test and those of us from the north think a good coon population reduces the luck factor.
Im sure that Jim is right when he says the 105 will be there no matter where they have to drive but The zones is probably where the $ is for UKC. and lots of hunters wont attend the zones if they are looking at a couple thousand mile trip to the finals. I would think UKC. could stick a pin in the map that would be within 5 or 6 hundred miles of the vast majority of its members that are active hunters. From a business perspective thats gotta be the smart move.

Not really true. They didn't even have 50 of the top 100 confirm in 2012. That says enough from the hunters of where to have it and where not to have it!

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Posted by JeepsandGsds on 09-23-2013 09:55 PM:

Don't be so quick to judge

I think most of you guys are forgetting that weather moon and other uncontrolable circumstances come in to play. You still got to see eyes but if you hunting a little patch woods or fence row like in Indiana it makes it a lot Easy to find the coon. Coon in ky the last few weeks been living in thes big oaks they won't loose all there leafs till late dec. there were people that went to ft. Knox. Some of those places you can go ten miles and never get out of big timber

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Posted by Mark V. on 09-23-2013 10:09 PM:

Where ever it is next year I hope I get a chance to go. It realy makes no differance to me. The dog that wins the cast goes on and thats the way it should be. Thick coon or thin coon you win or you don't. UKC has the best & fairest world hunt ( for the working man ) imo!

Posted by JiM on 09-23-2013 10:14 PM:

I wasn't intending for this to be about thick coon verses thin coon or North verses South. I just figured getting input from those who made the trip might be relevant. As for comparing the world Hunt to choosing a Super Bowl site, well.... I better just let that pass so I don't offend the genius that thought that up.

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Posted by Scary Creek on 09-23-2013 10:37 PM:

not a bad idea at all to have a top 100 vote , id say it would be interesting to see where it landed . I guess a true world ch should be able to tree coon in any state in any conditions thick or thin coon , etc.

Posted by jdc on 09-23-2013 10:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jculler8
Not really true. They didn't even have 50 of the top 100 confirm in 2012. That says enough from the hunters of where to have it and where not to have it!

I am not sure that is an accurate statistic, seemed like there were more than 50 there to me.

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Posted by dperry on 09-24-2013 12:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jculler8
Not really true. They didn't even have 50 of the top 100 confirm in 2012. That says enough from the hunters of where to have it and where not to have it!

They had twice that many, sir. Your statement is false.

Posted by dperry on 09-24-2013 12:12 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mark V.
Where ever it is next year I hope I get a chance to go. It realy makes no differance to me. The dog that wins the cast goes on and thats the way it should be. Thick coon or thin coon you win or you don't. UKC has the best & fairest world hunt ( for the working man ) imo!

Are the other world hunts for the unemployed? LOL! Where you headed to next Mark V?

Posted by GA DAWG on 09-24-2013 12:22 AM:

Here's what I think and have thought for yrs. Starting now. Throughout the whole yr. The state that has the most dogs entered in RQE hunts. Wins the world hunt. You'd still know a yr ahead of time cause Ukc would have to pick it next yr. It would work and if its in the same state yrs in a row. So be it. Might even help draw dogs if folks thought their state might get the world hunt.

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Posted by truly on 09-24-2013 02:40 AM:

I agree with Grant. Leave it the way it is. I think UKC has done a fine job moving it around so that fresh new guides and judges get used. None of this year after year buddy buddy system going on that happens when a hunt stays in the same place for years on end.
Keep it moving around, let different areas get showcased year to year. After this years hunt in Etown we all have a better idea of what hunting is like there. For me having the finals move around has gotten me to hunt in places that I have never hunted before- making for a very enjoyable experience.

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Posted by prostockpat on 09-24-2013 04:59 AM:

Re: Re: Anywhere...

quote:
Originally posted by perry co cooner
I don't think we have to worry about a me too dog winning any world hunt in any kennel club. They're weeded out way before the final cast. These are among the best comp hunters in the country that make it to the final cast plus 2 non hunting judges. I'm confident all involved in the final cast know the rules and enforce them.

lol,go back and re-read play by play.there was plenty of me too'n going on!

Posted by brushrunretiree on 09-24-2013 05:40 AM:

I Think You Guys Are Missing ONE BIG Thing. 1. There Has To Be A Club Willing To Host It. 2. There Needs To Be An Abundance Of "QUALIFIED GUIDES AND JUDGES. 3.There Needs To Be A Building Big Enough For A Good Kitchen. 4, There Needs To Be Adequate Motel And Hotels In The Area. 5. There Needs To Have COONS To Tree. How Far The Digs Have To Go Is Not A Problem.6.There Needs To Be Adequate Area For Supply People. 7.There Needs To Be A Building Big Enough For The BENCH SHOW.8. . And There Needs To Have A Big Area For Vehicle Parking. Find It And Submit It To Todd Kellum !!

Posted by DylanHovey on 09-24-2013 07:51 AM:

Finals should go to Aurora, Ky. Most diverse hunting in the country. Plenty of guides too. Pretty centralized too. Have the final cast in LBL and then you'll see who has the real coondog.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 09-24-2013 08:45 AM:

As the former president of a club that hosted a week long elimination type "world hunt" let me share some observations with you all, and you can sort it out from there.

#1 Facilities are NOT cheap! The kennel club is either asking for "bids" or is footing the bill for the facility. Because of size, a fairgrounds seems to be the most common choice of location. I know in this part of the country, you are looking at a pretty good chunk of change to just rent the buildings!
#2 "Qualified" guides. Most of these hunts take place IN PART during the work week. Having good guides who are willing to leave their dogs in the kennel and take a bunch of whiny handlers to the woods on Tuesday night...and when the sorry dogs cant find a coon to tree...it's the guides fault. Isn't easy to get them to come back on Wednesday, Thursday, and by Friday they have all but abandoned the idea. Most handlers appreciate the guides, but it only takes one bad apple to spoil the whole bunch!
#3 At this level, everybody is an expert on the rules, or at least they think they are. And let's face it, even the most fair judge in the world is going to get hated on if he hands your dog minus points even when your dog deserves it.

I could go on and on, but the real fact is that on night one there are approximately 105 dogs. By the end of that night you are down to 20 dogs, or five casts.... Any sanctioned UKC club in the country should be able to pull that off without having to have the casts drive for an hour or more to hunt in a cut-over! It happened this year, and it will continue to happen every year up to and until we can figure a way to factor LUCK of the draw out of the equation. The only way to level that playing field in my humble opinion is to hold the event in a geographical location that lends itself to a dog being able to go somewhere within reason and within hearing to tree a coon! Over the next mountain, or through the cut-over to the next block of timber is NOT a good scenario and does nothing to prove which hound is the better hound.

Hey look, we actually still believe that the World Hunt is a measurement of "the best of the best"....and it is not even close. Heck, we can pick any 10 of the "frequent fliers" on this message board, and we can ask them independently how they would go about defining a "coondog"....and each and every answer will be different. We don't have a good yard stick to determine what dog is better than the other. Some love independance, some hate it....some love a track dog, others love tree dogs....I hate slicks, others don't mind them.... You get the picture, but the winner of the World Hunt means that they simply won 5 casts in a row. That is ALL......It does not make any one dog "better" than any of the other thousands of dogs entered from the RQE to the Final Four!

So yes, I have my own opinion about where and when a world hunt is best suited, but I am not delusional about what it means to win the world. I've hunted with at least a dozen or more World Champion hounds and handlers. Some were really nice hounds, others were far less than "impressive"...but they all won those casts. One I know of won the final cast while hiding in the dog box since it started raining!

UKC does an outstanding job with their world hunt, and they have made some recent improvements with the play-by-play, and timely (almost up to the minute) coverage. I for one really appreciate being able to keep up with the goings-on. Jim's idea has some merit...but if it ain't broke........

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 09-24-2013 10:28 AM:

I would also like to throw some gasoline on the "north vs. south" banter here.....

I do not in any way believe that we should be crowing a world championship on IF a dog can find a coon to tree and then get it treed, but rather how MANY coon can a dog tree in 120 minutes......

For what it's worth!

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Posted by perry co cooner on 09-24-2013 10:51 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Anywhere...

quote:
Originally posted by prostockpat
lol,go back and re-read play by play.there was plenty of me too'n going on!

Oh come on man are you saying the new world champion is a me too dog or that the other two dogs in the cast are me too dogs? I can't believe a dog can make it to the final cast being a me too slick treeing idiot. I just don't believe that. Occasionally dogs will run the same track even though most want a totally independent dog. It's better to just congratulate the handlers and their fine hounds that made it and won. Next year you should make a run at the world if you have that caliber of hound you should have no problem thrashing a me too slick treeing dog.

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Posted by josh on 09-24-2013 12:59 PM:

First of all, if you think just because a dog makes it to the finals it is some kind of special. Coon treeing machine that Never makes mistakes .......you have another thing coming.

While I agree the world hund shouldn't be about what dog can get lucky and tree a coon in 2. Hrs. I think having it in the same place is setting it up for a few to stack the deck every year.

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Posted by Ray&Luie on 09-24-2013 01:45 PM:

Choosing

I Kinda have to laugh at all this because i see a lot of Selfishness being displayed

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