UKC Forums - Dog Wormers "End All to Be ALL" LOL Ivermectin ect

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Posted by tylerman on 02-21-2013 06:21 PM:

Interesting but very confusing...can someone just send me what I need to do mine and a couple friends dog...20 maybe adults...havent seen any problems with em with what we are doing now but I think now they surely got something I have missed.

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Posted by Fisher13 on 02-24-2013 08:44 PM:

So what would be your recommended treatment plan Majestic?

This tablet would seem to be pretty good then, a combination of iver,pyra, and praz.

Iverhart Max

http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailyme...fo.cfm?id=14525

I currently have some sentry x, which is a combo of prya and praz, if I added some ivermectin would this be a good way of doing my monthly treatments?

Posted by Dale Young on 02-24-2013 10:06 PM:

All my dogs get 1/2 cc of ivermectin once a month every month . If I see tape worms on/in any of my dogs I worm them all for tape worms . Pups all get wormed as they should be til I get them going on Ivermectin then we're good until something shows up .
I don't take dogs to the vet to be checked for worms since I find it easier to worm them if I have any concerns at all . Same for heart worm checks , if they are on ivermectin it won't show in the common test anyway . You can buy a lot of wormer for what it costs in office visit expenses for a kennel of dogs .

Posted by Fisher13 on 02-27-2013 03:53 AM:

I did a bunch of research and consulted the help of my wife, who is a practicing Pharmacist. The units of measurements in medicine are the same, across the board people or humans.

Majestics post is spot on, even just a half cc of ivomec 1% is 33.3 times too much per #.
I know of a lot guys that give there dogs a full CC. There is 10 milligrams of ivermectin in 1 cc. Hartguard, which is a brand of heartworm medictation, that a lot of vets prescribe. For a 50lb dog the dosage is 136micrograms of ivermectin. So if you are giving a full cc of ivomec 1%, your are really giving your dog 10,000 mcgs of ivermectin. This would be 9,864 mcgs to much!!!

If you are currently giving a .5 cc, you would simply divide 10mgs in half and convert to mcgs which is 5,000 and subtract the needed 136mcgs. Which comes out to 4864 mcgs too much!!

Basically to use ivomec properly, you should be cutting a .5 cc or ml with 49.5 ml of propylene glycol. To make a 50ml total. More then likely you should make a fresh suspension every time you go to use it. Suspensions usually don't suspend for too long. Doing it this way will water it down from 10mgs of ivermectin per 1 cc to 1mg of ivermectin per cc.

Less is more when using ivomec on canines, If you guys are not cutting it, I would give your dogs the smallest amount your syringe will possibly allow you to. Even 1/10 of a cc, of 1% ivomec is way more then what is required to prevent heart worms.

In other words, Hartguard is making a killing. If a person is cutting ivomec down properly, and using it at the .0027mg per #,(this is the amount hartguard goes by) I don't care if you had a 100 dogs in your kennel, I don't see anyway possible you could use a full 50ml bottle of ivomec, before it expired, and that is at retail price. Imagine how cheap they are getting it for at manufactures prices. On the other hand, I'd rather pay the extra cash if I find all of this technical jargon a little to confusing, knowing that I may have brought some type harm to my hand.

Here is an article on the proper way to use ivomec for canines.

Just follow this guys instructions, and you will be doing it the right way. I worked all his numbers and double checked his math, its spot on.
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums...0122715675.html

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 03-03-2013 06:15 PM:

OK Update I have found Praziguantel Even Cheeper in the US ..

The Ultimate Dog Wormer !! Controls All Worm and a Heart Worm Preventive !!
#1. Pyrantel $33 .. http://www.amazon.com/Neogen-Pyrant...436&sr=1-79 ( One whole 32 oz Bottle or 946 Ml ) total Unit has 47,300 mg

#2. Praziquantel $63 .. http://www.amazon.com/Microbelift-P...wl_mb_hu_c_2_dp ( ( Add 47.3 grams to the Liquid Pyrantel ) this will give you a 50/50 Mixture of Praziquantel and Pyrantel

#3. Generic Ivermectin $29 .. http://www.amazon.com/Generic-Iverm...vermectin+50+ml ( Add 7 ml to the Mixture of Praziquante / Pyrantel ) Shake Very Well !!

Dosage is 1 Ml or CC For each 10 pounds of Dog weight .. Cost per Ml is around $0.13 and to Treat a 50# Dog is around $0.35 ..

Treat Monthly ..

The Finished Product will Be about 1000 ml + or - so you will need a larger bottle than the Pyrantel came in ..

Thats about 166 monthly dosages for a 60# dog .. for around $100.00 to make

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...amp;cagpspn=pla

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Posted by Fisher13 on 03-03-2013 08:32 PM:

Majestic, I'm not sure that I follow you on this one, first you use 3 differrent measurements, oz, grams then ml.
Second the 32 oz bottle alone is more then 700ml, it is 943 with out adding anything.
That's being said, to cut an entire bottle of 1% ivomec, you would need to cut with a 1000ml. So the ratio is there, however I'm not sure how much adding the 32 grams of pryantel would throw it off.

Finally and most importantly, I'm not sure how long this suspension would last? When stored. Generally suspensions don't last long. I think it would make more sense to mix a small amount fresh each month, and end up throwing a little bit out then, possibly end up using a suspension that is no longer effective.

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 03-03-2013 09:53 PM:

Ok the Bottle of Pyrantel which is 32 oz. and that is Equal to 946 Ml. Each Ml of Pyrantel contains 50 mg of Pyrantel .

Grams The Praziquantel "Powder" pure !! 50 grams = 50,000 Mg. you only need 47,000 mg or 47.3 Grams..

If you would want to make a smaller Batch then 3-5 Mg of Pyrantel per Pound of Dog Weight .

Praziquantel is the exact same dosage for Dogs 3-5 Mg per pound of Dog weight .

So you want to combine equal Mg of both compounds .

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 03-03-2013 10:08 PM:

Iverhart Max was Recalled for Not having enough Ivermectin to Prevent Heart Worms ..

I went up to the next higher dosage ..

Iverhart Max Lot Recalled on Efficacy Concern

Virbac Animal Health voluntarily recalled one lot of its canine heartworm and internal parasite preventive Iverhart Max Chewable Tablets (ivermectin, pyrantel pamoate, praziquantel) because the ivermectin failed to meet the company’s stability specifications.

Some dogs dosed with tablets from the affected lot (#110482 for large dogs, 50.1 to 100 lbs.) may not be protected against heartworm disease, the company said.

Virbac is recalling one lot of its canine heartworm preventative Iverhart Max Chewable Tablets.

The lot number is stamped on the side lid or flap of the product’s box in a white text field and on the blister foil of the individual doses.

Virbac, of Fort Worth, Texas, sent letters to veterinary distributors instructing them to cease distribution of the affected lot and to advise veterinary clinics in receipt of the recalled product to cease dispensing it.

The other active ingredients in Iverhart were not affected, the company said, meaning the tablets should provide protection against other internal parasites. Virbac tested other lots of Iverhart and confirmed only one lot was affected.

No heartworm-related adverse events or illnesses had been reported to Virbac as of late March. If veterinarians see a potentially affected dog, they should contact Virbac Technical Services at 1-800-338-3659 x3052) to discuss testing procedures. If a dog taking the product is infected with heartworms, its treatment will be covered under the Iverhart product satisfaction guarantee, the company said.

Freedom of Information Act for Iverheart Max

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scrip....cfm?dn=141-257

Posted by Fisher13 on 03-03-2013 10:10 PM:

There are 29.5 ml in an ounce

32 ounces x 29.5 = 944

That being said that is the perfect ratio to cut down a bottle of 50ml of 1% inomec.

This would be a much better alternative then giving it straight out of the ivomec bottle.

I'm just not sure how it would store? Have you found anything on this?

Posted by Fisher13 on 03-03-2013 10:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Majestic Tree H
Iverhart Max was Recalled for Not having enough Ivermectin to Prevent Heart Worms ..

I went up to the next higher dosage ..

Iverhart Max Lot Recalled on Efficacy Concern

Virbac Animal Health voluntarily recalled one lot of its canine heartworm and internal parasite preventive Iverhart Max Chewable Tablets (ivermectin, pyrantel pamoate, praziquantel) because the ivermectin failed to meet the company’s stability specifications.

Some dogs dosed with tablets from the affected lot (#110482 for large dogs, 50.1 to 100 lbs.) may not be protected against heartworm disease, the company said.

Virbac is recalling one lot of its canine heartworm preventative Iverhart Max Chewable Tablets.

The lot number is stamped on the side lid or flap of the product’s box in a white text field and on the blister foil of the individual doses.

Virbac, of Fort Worth, Texas, sent letters to veterinary distributors instructing them to cease distribution of the affected lot and to advise veterinary clinics in receipt of the recalled product to cease dispensing it.

The other active ingredients in Iverhart were not affected, the company said, meaning the tablets should provide protection against other internal parasites. Virbac tested other lots of Iverhart and confirmed only one lot was affected.

No heartworm-related adverse events or illnesses had been reported to Virbac as of late March. If veterinarians see a potentially affected dog, they should contact Virbac Technical Services at 1-800-338-3659 x3052) to discuss testing procedures. If a dog taking the product is infected with heartworms, its treatment will be covered under the Iverhart product satisfaction guarantee, the company said.

Ya apparently you need a script to get it anyways, which is obv a bunch of crap.

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 03-03-2013 10:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Fisher13
There are 29.5 ml in an ounce

32 ounces x 29.5 = 944

That being said that is the perfect ratio to cut down a bottle of 50ml of 1% inomec.

This would be a much better alternative then giving it straight out of the ivomec bottle.

I'm just not sure how it would store? Have you found anything on this?

Your Total Correct on the Oz. to ML !!!! Very Sorry and I will correct the Amounts Above !!!

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 03-03-2013 10:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Fisher13
Ya apparently you need a script to get it anyways, which is obv a bunch of crap.

Yea I don't understand The Rx eather when you can easly Buy everything you need on line ..

Maybe its cuz. its a Compound ... I'm guessing

Posted by Fisher13 on 03-03-2013 10:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Majestic Tree H
Yea I don't understand The Rx eather when you can easly Buy everything you need on line ..

Maybe its cuz. its a Compound ... I'm guessing

I think its because you can mark up the product more, and people will buy it if it is vet recommended. What I don't understand is you can buy flea treatment OTC yet imo this has a lot more health risk.
The FDA and EPA are underfunded and I think often have there hands tied on these things.

Posted by kardinalkennels on 03-05-2013 02:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Majestic Tree H
OK after all the Research Exp. About that Raccoon Roundworm " I GOT ALL FREAKED OUT " I'm 5' 11-1/2" Tall and Only Weigh 165#s for the Past 5 years I have weighed the Exact same weight No Matter what I eat !!

Well I had bought some 500mg Mebendazole for the Dogs !! But its made for Humans !! Lemon Flavour !! Well I gave myself a Dose and I'l let you know the Out come !!

LOL, did you find any worms or are you picking up weight? If you are I may be in need of a good dose myself, I have the same problem as you, eat, eat, eat, and eat, never gain much or any weight.

quote:
Originally posted by Majestic Tree H
Best Buy in The World !!! I have ordered 3 times fro this Co. in China and have recieved my orders within 12 days !! and they always throw in something else for Free !!

Praziquantel- 50 tablets 200mg Dog Cat Fish Horse tape wormer (Praziquantel)

This is The Real Thing

$16.86 with Free Shipping !!!

This stuff works, I use Safegaurd Goat wormer, and Ivermectin, had a dog that still had worms in stool, the little rice grain critters. Well after one of these pills, that was the end of that. I have pretty much wormed all my dogs with it now, just because.

Didn’t know what you were talking about on the free gift, may have over looked it, and it got tossed, was mainly looking for the wormer. What kind of free bee did ya get? I have ordered another bottle just to have.

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Posted by Jay Bird 76 on 03-05-2013 04:30 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dale Young
All my dogs get 1/2 cc of ivermectin once a month every month . If I see tape worms on/in any of my dogs I worm them all for tape worms . Pups all get wormed as they should be til I get them going on Ivermectin then we're good until something shows up .
I don't take dogs to the vet to be checked for worms since I find it easier to worm them if I have any concerns at all . Same for heart worm checks , if they are on ivermectin it won't show in the common test anyway . You can buy a lot of wormer for what it costs in office visit expenses for a kennel of dogs .

Ive been doing this also for 20 years...went to a very good vet and he said to do this and only deal with tapes if ya see them...otherwise, just ivomec. Ive had several dogs live over 15 years old, so im sticking with what works.

Posted by K. Singletary on 03-05-2013 04:39 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jay Bird 76
Ive been doing this also for 20 years...went to a very good vet and he said to do this and only deal with tapes if ya see them...otherwise, just ivomec. Ive had several dogs live over 15 years old, so im sticking with what works.

Me too, I have two 12 year olds and a 11 year old here right now. Over the years, I've had a few females vet checked for worms while getting their brucellosis test and have yet one come back positive for worms. But to each his own, I'll keep doing what works for me.

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Posted by Fisher13 on 03-05-2013 05:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jay Bird 76
Ive been doing this also for 20 years...went to a very good vet and he said to do this and only deal with tapes if ya see them...otherwise, just ivomec. Ive had several dogs live over 15 years old, so im sticking with what works.

Ivomec does work no one is saying it doesn't, Majestic is just saying it doesn't treat tapes. I recently purchased a male, that was treated just on ivomec. I'm positive he had tapes, His ribs were visible and his coat was dull. After a single dose of praz, he is thickening out, and his coat looks much better.

No one also said that given your dog, 33 times more per #, would kill your dog, just that your giving the dog 9,000 mcgs more then what is required.

I would consider this to be much like if you are taking Vitamin C. One pill will give you your daily allowance. Will taking 33 more hurt you probably not, but it doesn't mean I would do it.

Just because a half cc looks like a small amount, doesn't mean it is. Less is more in when talking about treating canines with 1% Ivomec.

Its all in the math.

I know some very good doctors, just because they recommend a medicine, doesn't mean I will blindly take it. Ultimately its my decision, and my responsibility to understand, what I am being prescribed, and what the risks are. This is a major problem in today's medical world. A doctor can recommend and prescribe a treatment, that doesn't mean it is the best option. Most people generally don't look into what they are taking, in theory, it is there responsibility to calculate the risks, and make sure that this is the option of treatment they wish to pursue.

Posted by K. Singletary on 03-05-2013 05:48 PM:

Fisher13, the ivomec dosage you guys are talking about is heartworm dosage. That dosage will not kill hook, whip, and roundworms. So no,we are not giving them 33 times more than is required.

http://www.petplace.com/drug-librar...gard/page1.aspx

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Posted by Fisher13 on 03-05-2013 10:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
Fisher13, the ivomec dosage you guys are talking about is heartworm dosage. That dosage will not kill hook, whip, and roundworms. So no,we are not giving them 33 times more than is required.

http://www.petplace.com/drug-librar...gard/page1.aspx

Ivermectin does not treat most species of round worms or tape worms effectively. That was the whole point of Majestics post.

Look at the chart he posted

Ivermectin is most effective and most commonly used for heartworm prevention.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone, but facts are facts, and it is our responsibility as dog owners, if we do decide to treat our dogs on our own, to conserve money to understand, proper dosages, and treatments. Thats all i'm saying.

Posted by Fisher13 on 03-05-2013 10:19 PM:

I do see where what I think you are referencing.

The area where it says "0.1 mg per pound (0.2 mg/kg) once for gastrointestinal parasites."

What all falls under that?

I know most of the prescribed drugs include pryantel so I would only assume, that as a dog owner you would also want to include another dewormer in your medical treatment plan.

Posted by Fisher13 on 03-05-2013 10:22 PM:

This website claims 1mg per lb.

http://www.vetinfo.com/ivomec-for-dogs.html#b

I think its a typo

Posted by K. Singletary on 03-06-2013 04:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Fisher13
I do see where what I think you are referencing.

The area where it says "0.1 mg per pound (0.2 mg/kg) once for gastrointestinal parasites."

Yes, this has been the dosage for worms other than heartworms since I started using ivomec over 20 years ago. I have personally seen Ivomec kill many, many round worms so I know better. However, it will not kill tape worms.

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Posted by Craig Edwards on 03-06-2013 05:57 AM:

What about Strongoid? It contains the same major ingredients as Nymex. Is it ok for dogs, and if so how much would you give?

Can anyone give a link on a good tape wormer?
Thanks for any help you may offer.

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Posted by M MUELLER on 03-09-2013 04:11 AM:

wormer

Just wonder if anyone has tried that Mearicle brand wormer?

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Posted by JOE TANKERSLEY on 03-09-2013 06:13 AM:

Anybody use the cattle drench?

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