UKC Forums - Can you actually "train" a coon dog?

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-- Can you actually "train" a coon dog? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=291395)

Posted by coondogedog on 08-04-2009 02:14 PM:

ANY HOUND PUP CAN BE TAUGHT TO STRIKE, RUN AND TREE A COON, TO DIFFERNT DEGREES. All hounds are not equal but can be trained. Any trainer who trains drug dogs will tell you that not all dogs will be top dogs, but that all dogs can be trained.

A tree dog that mills can be stopped from milling at the tree. The problem is that most handlers don't take the time to do it, or don't know how.

ALL BEING SAID AND DONE, NATURAL ABILITY HELPS THE PROCESS.

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Posted by Randy Tallon on 08-04-2009 03:35 PM:

Not all dogs BRED for police work can make the cut to be a detection dog or a patrol dog for that matter......hence the testing procedure to wash them out. The same holds true for this sport.

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Posted by larry ross on 08-05-2009 09:12 AM:

IF WE COULD TRAIN ALLTHESE DOGS TO HUNT STRIKE AND DRIFT A TRACK WITH SPEED AND EFFICIANCY TREE WITH CLASS AND ACCURACY THEN WE WOULD NOT NEED A QUALIFIED BREEDER EVERYONE WOULD BE TURNING GR.NT.CH OUT LIKE THEY WERE MACHINES. JUST WONT HAPPEN IF IT IS NOT BRED IN THEM .THEN WE WILL POLISH THE ROUGH EDGES AND KEEP THEM IN GOOD COMPANY AND LET THERE INHERANT ABILITY COME TO THE TOP.

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Posted by bruceatempire on 08-05-2009 01:42 PM:

training?

You bred the best to the best to get the best...do you train birds to fly, fish to swim, cats to climb...instincts and natural ability. Sometimes you see something exceptional like the border collie...I have a friend that "TRAINS" his hounds with his collie...I do agree put them in the woods, we would like to take credit for training but I wonder if the dogs talk about how well they have trained us?

Good Hunting guys...take a kid hunting the rewards are forever

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Posted by Justin Smith on 08-05-2009 01:58 PM:

It takes top breeding and top training to be the best , you can tree coon with just one thing in your favor ... but you'll never have a consistant , top notch coondog if that dog is his own boss .

Posted by G L Weller on 08-05-2009 03:23 PM:

Can you train a coon dog?

If we have a good prospect with natural ability bred in it then the answer is YES we can enhance a dog’s natural ability with the proper training/handling/hunting.
I guess a lot of it depends on what we call a good prospect. I think a person could probably work with most any dog and get it to bark at a caged coon but that don’t necessarily make it a good prospect in my way of thinking. I don’t believe that the desire to hunt, push a track, tree and stay treed is something that can be trained into a dog. We can make a dog find another place to hang around but we can’t make it hunt if it don’t wanna hunt. The more a dog is hunted the better it should get at tracking but we can’t put the desire to push a track in any dog if they don’t wanna push the track. We can in some cases get a dog to bark up a tree. But we can’t put the desire to stay treed in any dog. If we have to teach a dog to bark up a tree or if we have to run to the tree before it leaves then we don’t have a good prospect for a good solid coondog. JMO

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-05-2009 03:36 PM:

Anybody who thinks they can train a coondog simply had one with what it took in the first place and simply thinks that they made the dog with their training.

You can't get out what isn't bred in, I don't care who you are. Man if you experts can market the way to train all these duds into top cooners you really outta market it, you could make a small fortune. But you won't cause you can't and you will sit here and BS on the message board about how you can.

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Posted by jculler8 on 08-05-2009 04:31 PM:

BRAINS BRAINS BRAINS BOYS! THAT'S WHAT IT TAKES!

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-05-2009 04:59 PM:

Brains, desire, and instinct.

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Posted by coondogedog on 08-05-2009 05:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Briar
Anybody who thinks they can train a coondog simply had one with what it took in the first place and simply thinks that they made the dog with their training.

You can't get out what isn't bred in, I don't care who you are. Man if you experts can market the way to train all these duds into top cooners you really outta market it, you could make a small fortune. But you won't cause you can't and you will sit here and BS on the message board about how you can.

I would say to you, just the opposite. If you're not knowledgeable enough to TRAIN a dog, then you'll have to buy just the right dog. That's why so many coonhunters go through several dogs before they get one they can hunt.

Everyday people train dogs to jump through hoops, jump over poles etc. I realize that the majority of people on this site think hounds are not very sharp in the thinking category and only do what they do because they were bred that way, but please stop and think, a hound doesn't come out of it's mother treeing coon. That pup is born a TREE DOG. You have to TRAIN it what to tree. Hounds can be trained to do what you want them to do. A hound can be taught to tree a squirrel or a grey fox or a bobcat, the list goes on.

Bird dog folks work with their pups from almost day 1. Most coonhunters that I know basically ignore their pups until at least 6 months old. Their training process involves a couple of caged coon and turning the pup loose with an old dog.

It's not that hounds can't be trained, it's that most coonhunters don't know how.

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Posted by Justin Smith on 08-05-2009 05:44 PM:

Hounds don't train themselves to load , cast off a tree , come when called , stay out hunting when they'd rather come in , keep looking for a coon when we see they got fooled , not be fussy at the tree ... and so on and so on .

Lots of dogs will naturally run and tree coon ... but a top notch dog has to be put into the hands of a top notch trainer to finish out and shine in top notch company.

That's not even an opinion , that's just a basic principle that applies to all sports , hobbies the world over .... the laws of physics actually do apply in the coonhunting world .

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-05-2009 05:46 PM:

Well lloyd you keep training your hounds to jump through hoops and over poles. I will run through pups till I find one that wants it bad enough that all it needs is to be shown what to do and taken to the woods.

My time is precious. I work, I play, and I hunt. I don't have time to sweet talk a dog to doing its job with milk bones and hot dogs. I will show them a coon, turn a couple out to them and take them hunting 50 times. If they aren't showing me coon alone by this time you can have them and teach them to do tricks for the circus.

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-05-2009 05:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Justin Smith
Lots of dogs will naturally run and tree coon ... but a top notch dog has to be put into the hands of a top notch trainer to finish out and shine in top notch company.
.

agreed

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Posted by coondogedog on 08-05-2009 06:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Briar
Well lloyd you keep training your hounds to jump through hoops and over poles. I will run through pups till I find one that wants it bad enough that all it needs is to be shown what to do and taken to the woods.

My time is precious. I work, I play, and I hunt. I don't have time to sweet talk a dog to doing its job with milk bones and hot dogs. I will show them a coon, turn a couple out to them and take them hunting 50 times. If they aren't showing me coon alone by this time you can have them and teach them to do tricks for the circus.

Don't get your panties in a wad. You can do as you please. I wasn't telling you or anyone else what to do or how to do it. I simply KNOW that a hound can be trained to do what you want it to do, and that was the original question.
I don't train my hounds and Mtn. Curs to jump hoops and poles, but theu'd do it.
You can only get out of your dogs what you put in them.
Don't bother to reply, I won't be back to this post, Thanks and have a good day, Loyd McIntire.

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Posted by Travis Brown on 08-05-2009 06:58 PM:

You can't train a dog with no desire to be a good coondog but you can make a dog that likes to tree coons better with good training. I don't think a trainer can do much of anything to teach desire or tracking ability they have to be born with that. the most common training error I see is a lack of woods time.

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Posted by Huntaholic on 08-06-2009 02:17 AM:

All I know is I LIKE drawing them "man-made" coonhounds.

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Posted by WVA_bluhunter on 08-06-2009 11:54 PM:

i think its all about teaching a dog what not to do.

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Posted by PlottChaser on 08-08-2009 02:04 PM:

what got me into coonhunting in the first place was a dog that did it himself with no training.

I bought a Plott pup with the intent of turning him into a wounded deer tracking dog a couple years after Illinois legalized using a dog on a lead to track wounded deer. (I deer hunt and do a little guiding for deer hunters and thought this would be an asset.) One day I was just out milling around the woods with my 6 month old pup and he treed a coon! I loved it and have been coon hunting ever since. I have never done anything to train him to track and tree coon. Only taught him how to handle on the lead, come when called, kennel up, truck up, etc.

If dogs could be trained to coon hunt then all these threads about which breed is best need to be thrown out and never discussed again because this would mean it has nothing to do with the breeding only the training.

So here's a challenge for all of you who think you have to train a dog to track and tree. Go out and get yourself a chi hua hua and turn it into a coondog! LOL

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Posted by Wesley Sanford on 08-09-2009 05:12 PM:

Smart hounds can be trained, period. Trained to tree coon, not possums. Trained not to run deer. Trained to load, to come, to fence, to play dead, to kiss their tail, to roll over, to heel, to sit, to stay, to crawl, to run a treadmill, and on and on and on. They can be trained to track properly, tree properly, hunt the way you want, wide or close. However the time needed to produce a winner is dependent on the indivudals natural ability, much like teaching kids to play ball. Some excel early on, others need more practice and schooling. Some learn to swing the bat but can't connect with the ball on a regular basis. The sharpness in mental or physical ability is not there.

Posted by ringtail on 08-10-2009 05:41 AM:

you just.........

quote:
Originally posted by Huntaholic
All I know is I LIKE drawing them "man-made" coonhounds.

think u do.......... when ur on a cast & get ur azz handed to u by a better dog; how do u KNOW it wasn't a hound trained to beat u like a drum that did it?

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Posted by opie on 08-10-2009 06:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Wesley Sanford
Smart hounds can be trained, period. Trained to tree coon, not possums. Trained not to run deer. Trained to load, to come, to fence, to play dead, to kiss their tail, to roll over, to heel, to sit, to stay, to crawl, to run a treadmill, and on and on and on. They can be trained to track properly, tree properly, hunt the way you want, wide or close. However the time needed to produce a winner is dependent on the indivudals natural ability, much like teaching kids to play ball. Some excel early on, others need more practice and schooling. Some learn to swing the bat but can't connect with the ball on a regular basis. The sharpness in mental or physical ability is not there.

well said !!!!

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Posted by MUSKINGUM RIVER on 08-10-2009 10:57 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Justin Smith
Lots of folks can get pups started, but few can finish them ... the difference is in training.

There is no sport on this earth where you can be the best at something by sitting on the tailgate and not training for it .

Boxing , roping , coondogs , basketball ... no matter how great you are you still need training to be a pro . The difference is that most can't see the difference in a dog .

I AGREE 100%,YOU DON'T SEE A PROFFESIONAL ATHELETE NOT PRACITCING,CONDITIONING.SAME GOES FOR HUNTING DOGS.

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Posted by Rowdy on 08-10-2009 12:34 PM:

This thread right here explains why a good dog is hard to find and a good dog costs $$$$.

Turning a dog loose and sitting on a tailgate doesn't get the job done.

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Posted by chuck west on 07-04-2012 01:52 PM:

BTT

Good reading .

Posted by amazeagle on 07-04-2012 02:59 PM:

If i have to train a dog to tree or trail, I have the wrong prospect. All you should have to do is encourage or discourage desired actions.

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