Registered: Jan 2006
Location: GA-CA
Posts: 43

Can you train a coon dog like they train tracking dogs? Of course the dog has to have natural talent, but can you make him better with actual training? I'm not talking about pairing him up with Old Rufus and hitting the timber, but actually getting out there and laying drags and teaching him how to tree like you teach a dog to do anything else. And without a professionally made coon pen too.

The reason that I am asking is because it seems like we can train the heck out of all kinds of dogs to do some rediculously complex stuff for a dog, but we just seem to show our hound pups a coon a couple times and then just hope they train themselves.

Curious minds await,
Jake

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Registered: Jun 2009
Location:
Posts: 269

I guess it depends on how much time and work your willing to put in and how much knowledge you have of hounds to begin with. I know all dogs need some fine tuneing but i prefer one with lots of natural ability.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Mercer PA
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quote:

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Originally posted by jake lunsford


The reason that I am asking is because it seems like we can train the heck out of all kinds of dogs to do some rediculously complex stuff for a dog, but we just seem to show our hound pups a coon a couple times and then just hope they train themselves.

Curious minds await,
Jake

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location: indiana
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amen briar

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

No you cant train a COONDOG. you can expose them to good hunting conditions, you can give possitive reinforcment for good behavior and disipline for bad. You can teach them to handle (lead, load , come when called) thats about it. Its pretty much accepted in the dog world that the border collie is the smartest of the recognized breeds. If you could train a COONDOG we would all be hunting border collies.

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 3377

I think "training" is all about "cleaning up the rough edges" of a hound that has natural born ability to track and tree a raccoon by itself.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
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quote:

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Originally posted by jake lunsford
...

The reason that I am asking is because it seems like we can train the heck out of all kinds of dogs to do some rediculously complex stuff for a dog, but we just seem to show our hound pups a coon a couple times and then just hope they train themselves.

Curious minds await,
Jake

---

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Registered: Jun 2009
Location:
Posts: 269

i would never name names but i know a very successfull competition hunter that will shock his dog to make it start treeing again if it stops. He's the only person i ever saw do that. Yall ever seen that?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: N.E. Arkansas
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Yes!!! and Yessssss. Hounds can be trained, IF YOU'RE SMARTER THAN HE IS!

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: hodgenville, ky
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I didn't create the masterpiece before you, I only removed the rough edges to expose it. "Coon Dogs" aren't really made by training and reinforcement, we're only removing the rough edges, they either have it or they don't. jmo

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

Lots of folks can get pups started, but few can finish them ... the difference is in training.

There is no sport on this earth where you can be the best at something by sitting on the tailgate and not training for it .

Boxing , roping , coondogs , basketball ... no matter how great you are you still need training to be a pro . The difference is that most can't see the difference in a dog .

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
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quote:

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Originally posted by Justin Smith

Boxing , roping , coondogs , basketball ... no matter how great you are you still need training to be a pro . The difference is that most can't see the difference in a dog .

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

quote:

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Originally posted by jackbob42
Name me a top boxer , roper , or basketball player that was trained to be there , but didn't want to be.
How do you put it in there , if it ain't in there in the first place?
We can put the finishing touches on , but we can't train them to do if they don't want to do it. If we could , we'd all have world champion dogs and Michael Jordan kids !

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Registered: Oct 2003
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I guess it all depends on a person definition of " training " then.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

The three most important things a coondog does is (1) strike a track (2) run the track (3) locate. tree and stay. I would like to hear from you expert trainers how you have ever taught a dog any one of the three essential things a coondog must do.

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
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quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
The three most important things a coondog does is (1) strike a track (2) run the track (3) locate. tree and stay. I would like to hear from you expert trainers how you have ever taught a dog any one of the three essential things a coondog must do.

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i had a dog once that never stayed treed. she would locate and re run the track from where she struck it to tree... over and over and over again.... there were a handful of nights i left her in the woods because i could not catch her from re running a track.


she is a grnite now and a stay put, pressure type treedog.


i trained her that way. 1 night i got her to flip the light switch on and have never seen her look back since.

maybe it was age. maybe it was instinct. maybe it was training. maybe it was luck but shes aight now.

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Registered: Apr 2006
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i have never scen 1 get better in the pen

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Registered: May 2008
Location: Montana
Posts: 34

First of all....Sky Blue....why haven't you jumped in on this????

Here's a story...maybe too long for some of you...if so, you probably don't train very long either....

It's by Bob Vest, a now deceased herding clinician and was recently posted on a SAR forum where they're having a heated discussion about whether rescue dogs, or purebred dogs, etc. are best for SAR......it's so, so true, no matter what breed you attempt to train, or what you attempt to train them for.

<<There were three dogs and three handlers. One dog was very talented -
strong instincts and was owned by a man who had little time and or patience
for this dog's overenthusiastic approach to work. The second dog was
mediocre but mildly talented and shared his herding career with a handler
who was indifferent about goals, wasn't driven to win but was content with
doing an average job with this dog. The third dog lacked natural talent and
had little ability on its own but the owner of the dog admired the dog
greatly in spite of what others called a lack of talent. Dog number three
and his handler, went to clinics, practiced religiously, and no matter what
dog number three did, owner three praised the dog for his efforts.



At the end of the one year, dog number one was in a pound waiting to die
because he was unmanageable, too much for owner one and in spite of his
wonderful ability, was never well understood. Dog and owner number two were
still putting along, doing an average job and really hadn't changed much
over time. Dog number three progressed and excelled at everything he did
while his owner stood by him, gave him confidence and believed in him.>>



The moral of Bob's story was that some of the best teams out there are
people who develop a relationship and build a dog up with a strong
foundation. There is room in this story for the person who starts with an
amazing dog - what I have seen is that they "never get another dog as good"
and blame every other dog that comes along for faults, when it could be
their own weakness as a trainer that is now exposed.

Story by Bob Vest, a herding clinician


This story totally stikes home with me. I've seen it many times, and so have you all.....if you look with an open mind and heart.

Cliff Williams

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Carrabelle,Florida
Posts: 152

put them hounds in the woods thats the best training you can get if its in them it will come out of them without a drag and cage coon well they have to have since to but thats another thing to....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

Athletes that compete in sports need more than talent to beat the other pro's in their league .. they can't do it alone.

This is logic , fact and real .... there is no reason that the coondog world would adhere to laws of physics from a parallel universe where logic doesn't exist.

There are plenty of talented , well bred coondogs ... when they meet ... it's the training and preperation of the handlers that seperates them.

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: michigan
Posts: 61

coonhounds where put on the face of the earth for onething....it is born into them....its there ingrained in it's DNA.....you just expose them to it to bring it out

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2162

What is your profession? Trucker? Teacher? Lawyer? Doctor? Farmer? Welder? Police Officer?

Were you naturally born for these jobs? Or, were you trained for them?

Not all dogs have the talent and natural abilities to become coon dogs, but the ones that do require training to develop those abilities.

Not all people have the talent and natural abilities to become doctors, but the ones that do require training to develop those abilities.

How many would go to a natural born doctor. No training required. Just expose him to sicknesses and diseases, and let his natural talent come out!!! NOT ME!!! I want my doctor to be well trained.

Dogs are not superior to people. They also require training to do their jobs well!!! Talent is only part of the equation!!!

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 463

quote:

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Dogs are not superior to people. They also require training to do their jobs well!!! Talent is only part of the equation!!! [/B]

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2760

oops, wrong thread.....

i meant to say "yes u can"..... if a dog has natural ability, training will be easier.. just expose him and give plenty of praise 4 good and spank 4 bad......

if ur dog is lacking natural ability but has a strong prey drive u can still train him... it'll just take a LOT more time & patience (which is something we coonhunter don't have).....

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
...... you can expose them to good hunting conditions, you can give possitive reinforcment for good behavior and disipline for bad.....

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 2106

Cliff put it the best. The leash is an umbellical cord. As a team you "feed" each other. You let the dog know when you are happy that he did what he is supposed to and you let him know when he did something that you're not happy with. Can you "will" a dog to do something....??? In this sport the dog has to have the inherent traits. Some have them......some don't. If this wasn't the case we wouldn't have them word "cull." We can hone and sharpen certain drives and traits,mostly with time in the woods and a little guidance., but, if they're not there.....

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