UKC Forums - Countdown Rule

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-- Countdown Rule (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=288691)

Posted by john Duemmer on 07-24-2009 06:25 PM:

If you read the breed associations thread you know im in favor of the countdown and why. I would like to hear from the guys who are against the countdown and why? The other Kcs. give a little more option to the judge to minus a dog that quits a track and travels a distance to get a piece of someone elses tree, but in ukc unless they come in to the cast they get a pass.

Posted by coonernc on 07-24-2009 06:46 PM:

please explain the countdown rule to me ,,,,,,,im stupid.....

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Posted by ohiothunder on 07-24-2009 07:04 PM:

RE: Rule

Say you tree youre dog and the 5 minute countdown starts. After 30 seconds any other dog that trees with youre dog will get 50 points and anything after 1 min 30 sec can only recieve 25 points. Its to keep mee too dogs from winning bud. That way when youre dog gets a title it will be honestly won well chances are anyway.

Its obvious how much confidence people that oppose the countdown rule have in their dogs.

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Posted by coonernc on 07-24-2009 07:20 PM:

i would vote yes to that & i hunt B&T dogs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by LostHeritageKennel on 07-24-2009 10:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by PLOTT46
well if ya dont like the rules for ukc than just hunt pkc

That is what I have been doing. I refuse to hunt for just a trophy while it has been this hot. If I am going to hunt in a hunt this time of year, I am going to have to put some money back in my pocket. Haven't found a performance pup I liked yet. So I guess until then I will just stick with UKC during the winter.

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Posted by larry ross on 07-28-2009 06:21 AM:

I THINK THE COUNT DOWN RULE SHOULD BE ADOPTED THAT WAY THE DOG THAT GETS A FIRST STRIKE ALWAYS AND TREES SECOND WITH YOUR OR THE OTHER DOGS AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN TREED FOR SEVERAL MINUTES WOULD NOT GET AS MANY CAST WINS.

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Posted by HalfmoonHounds on 07-28-2009 07:41 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by larry ross
I THINK THE COUNT DOWN RULE SHOULD BE ADOPTED THAT WAY THE DOG THAT GETS A FIRST STRIKE ALWAYS AND TREES SECOND WITH YOUR OR THE OTHER DOGS AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN TREED FOR SEVERAL MINUTES WOULD NOT GET AS MANY CAST WINS.

Well, Lets look at the other side of the coin. Why should a hot nosed dog win the cast if he can't never find the track first. I pleasure hunted with a dog like that, he didn't do anything until my dog worked out a track and then he would blow past him and tree first. So then I put my dog up in the box and we hunted the other dog, no coons. I dropped my dog same area, 5 minutes later he is striking and then later he trees, so there was coons in there, just colder tracks.
Just a thought, my dog is slow to tree once in awhile but he is also very accurate, so I don't go to very many slick trees which to me is worth the sacrafice of not getting first tree everytime.

Posted by ohiothunder on 07-28-2009 12:52 PM:

So sounds like youre dog could track a bad track but his dog would blow in there and lsick tree ?? and youre dog would cover ?? Sounds like you need to get him to ignore the slick treeing dog and get youre dog to go on and finish the track. Not rilly relivent to the countdown rule

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Posted by larry ross on 07-28-2009 06:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HalfmoonHounds
Well, Lets look at the other side of the coin. Why should a hot nosed dog win the cast if he can't never find the track first. I pleasure hunted with a dog like that, he didn't do anything until my dog worked out a track and then he would blow past him and tree first. So then I put my dog up in the box and we hunted the other dog, no coons. I dropped my dog same area, 5 minutes later he is striking and then later he trees, so there was coons in there, just colder tracks.
Just a thought, my dog is slow to tree once in awhile but he is also very accurate, so I don't go to very many slick trees which to me is worth the sacrafice of not getting first tree everytime.

I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT A HOT NOSED DOG THATBLOWS BY THE COLD NOSED DOG TO GRAB A TREE .IN THE HUNTS A LOT OF DOGS STRIKE FIRST ON A CHIPMUNK -DEER -FOX OR JUST BARK TO HEAR THERE BRAINS RATTLE THEN WHEN A GOOD DOG GETS 3RD OR4TH STRIKE THEN TREES THE COON THE OTHER DOG COMES IN AND COVERS AND GETS PART OF YOUR TREE AND PART OF SOMEONE ELSES TREE THEY END UP WINNING A LOT OF CAST THIS IS IN MY OPINION WERE THE COUNTDOWN RULE WOULD HURT THIS TYPE OF DOG.

Posted by HalfmoonHounds on 07-29-2009 04:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ohiothunder
So sounds like youre dog could track a bad track but his dog would blow in there and lsick tree ?? and youre dog would cover ?? Sounds like you need to get him to ignore the slick treeing dog and get youre dog to go on and finish the track. Not rilly relivent to the countdown rule

I must not have written it clearly, I apologize for that. I am saying my dog worked a colder track from start to finish and would have with or without the help of another dog. Then basically dog 2 was tagging along for the ride until the track was hot enough for dog 2 to figure it out, or maybe dog 2 blazed across the woods as a me too dog, ( who knows for sure it was dark).
Now rereading the post maybe it isn't revelant to the countdown rule.

Posted by Huntaholic on 07-29-2009 04:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by blueticker
I feel they should start the countdown rule as soon as they do away with circled slick trees. Either plus or minus unless it's a den tree. Those quick slick treeing idiots would gradually be gone.

Circle trees have NEVER won a hunt in UKC. All it takes is ANY plus to beat 2000 circle. Seems to me that the folks who scream about this the most are the ones who are packing a "1 coon per 2 hour" dog. If another dog in the cast trees 1 and makes 2 circle trees yet gets a piece of your coon as well, then you are beat. If thats the case then maybe a faster dog is in order!

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Posted by ohiothunder on 07-29-2009 04:33 PM:

All you people who disagree with the countdown rule can i ask you whats not to agree with??????? doesnt it just make sense that a dog shouldnt be able to tree in with 1 second left on a tree and get 75??????? Is that fair to the dog thats been treed for over 4 minutes????????

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Posted by Virgil on 07-29-2009 04:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Huntaholic
Circle trees have NEVER won a hunt in UKC. All it takes is ANY plus to beat 2000 circle. Seems to me that the folks who scream about this the most are the ones who are packing a "1 coon per 2 hour" dog. If another dog in the cast trees 1 and makes 2 circle trees yet gets a piece of your coon as well, then you are beat. If thats the case then maybe a faster dog is in order!

I think what he is trying to say is that the dog with a bunch of cirlce should most likely have a bunch of minus and not be in the running to win.

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Posted by Huntaholic on 07-29-2009 04:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ohiothunder
All you people who disagree with the countdown rule can i ask you whats not to agree with??????? doesnt it just make sense that a dog shouldnt be able to tree in with 1 second left on a tree and get 75??????? Is that fair to the dog thats been treed for over 4 minutes????????

I never said I was against a countdown rule. I will hunt em however the rules say to. I would however, love to go to the woods with some of these folks who say "plus or minus, if its there I will find it or it will look". I got a feeling a LOT of circle trees end up PLUSSED with these guys.

Unless its a fence post or a true sapling, I dont care who you are or how good you THINK you are, you are gonna miss finding some coons! I shined a 12" tree once in the dead of winter for at least 15 minutes once and had already leashed my dog and was leading her away before I looked back one more time and found the coon plain as day. That taught me a lot about just how easy it is to overlook a coon and I think Im pretty good at finding them. If this had been in a hunt the whole cast myself included, would have minused that tree and been gone 10 minutes before i found the coon.

Posted by ohiothunder on 07-29-2009 04:55 PM:

This thread was not started to debate slick or plus or circled trees. It was started to ask why on earth are most of you not in favor of a countdown rule??? I mean doesnt it just make sense..... course it does but its obvious what kind of dog you have if youre not in favor of it

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Posted by roughcreek on 07-29-2009 07:29 PM:

why not have a count down rule on strike ? like i said before i could care less one way or the other. its just another stratagy on how to play the game.

no count down) lets say cast has got a dog treed & he just aint right & you know he probly aint going to stay. (dog has pulled already in hunt) he's treed in for 125. your dog is treed, other dogs are running close by. you going to tree your dog or wait as long as possible to see if other dog pulls before you tree your dog & try to get 125 on tree or are you going to tree for 75 ?

dog is treed you know your dog is split but you cant proove it, if you get a little closer you can proove to cast your dog is split. are you going to tree for 75 right then & other dog pull to your dog & score stay the same or wait & hopefully tree your dog for 125 & hopefully other dog pulls after cast is close enough to tell, dog pulled & he draws minus & has to tree back in at 75 ?

its just a different way to play the game.

count down) you got a lead in points, you dont want to tree in for 75 so you wait till it drops down to 25 before you tree.

your winning registered cast. your dog is going to get 2nd tree. you know your dog, he did not locate when treed. you know if your dog dont locate its probly a possum. you going to tree for 75 or wait till 25 so you dont get as much minus.

i could go on & on with what if's on both sides of this question. it all comes down to different stratagies for playing the game. both have good points & bad. i like it the way it is but i could care less.

the one rule i dont like about a true me two dog is. if dog comes in to a minus tree after judge arrives, that dog diserves to get minus stike & next avalable tree points the same as dogs that got minused on that tree !! it ended up in the same place & gets a pass !! to me that is not fair !!

Posted by Travis Brown on 07-29-2009 07:32 PM:

If you're going to countdown the tree the track points need to be lowered also or you will have more points awarded for track barking on who knows what than treepoints.

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