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Originally posted by glynnsdawgs63
Trying to train a pup.If you have a well bred pup it should come naturally.All a good bred pup needs is guidance.

Showing a coon in cage after pup will bark on it
Shooting out too many coons
Not hunting pups enough or too much
Too much disipline,get a handle on your pup then hunt him.I hunt my pups 1 turn out 1 tree then put them up for a couple of days once they show me they can trail a bit and tree they are hunted by themselves

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Properly training with a shock collar is a big one. Someone touched on it earlier. My dogs go ape when they see the shock collar comming cause they know they are going hunting. Could be cause they probably wear it 50 times before they get it used for dicipline and then only sparingly. Mine wear it from their first hunt till their last and I'd bet I haven't used it six times total on both of them, yet when I leave the tree I call em and out we go. My sons walker will do the same and when he is at a hunt people marvel his dog will leave the tree without being draggged away like theirs. Hounds are a lot smarter than they get credit for.

biggest mistake,,trying to train to many at one time,,,and some use a cage coon to much...i've been guilty of having to many the same age, when one starts turning the crank the others start sitting in the kennel to much..

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quote:

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Originally posted by TQS_Kennel
Get a good bred pup in coons and watch them almost train themselfs if you will keep them in woods.

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to many trainers try to make a pup what they want them to be instead of what they were born to be.

reading a pups genetic strengths and then trying to get the most out of those strengths while steering them away from their weaknesses is the key, imho.

btt

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how

elvis how do you read a pups genetics not being smart just never heard of that

this is a great post, can some of you explain more why you think caged coon are bad and when you should stop trianing this way.

training

Guys this is a great thread.. I have coonhunted for almost 40 years and still have lots to learn. I have trained lots of pups over the years and some made good dogs and some didnt.. Anyway i agree with about everthing said here to some degree and of course we all have our own views of how we think it should be done but i am always willing to listen to new or old ideas about training a young dog.. I dont have any insight to add but i do have a question .. I have a 10 month old pup that i really have high hopes for. She has started to babble some when cut loose and i dont know whether i should bump her with the collar or just wait and see if she grows out of it .. any suggestions? thanks

quote:

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Originally posted by BFClover
this is a great post, can some of you explain more why you think caged coon are bad and when you should stop trianing this way.

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Cage coons can also lead to dogs that only want to tree by sight.

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Some dogs that have been worked too much with a caged coon , will tree on squirrels nests , vines , etc. Basically , any " bunch " they " see " sitting in a tree. I've even seen one tree on a hornets nest. LOL

Also , make sure you KNOW what you hunt your young dog with. That includes man or dog. Sometimes it only takes one time to ruin a young dog.

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I'm going to ad another mistake alot of new people make with young hounds and pups.

They read all the ads in every magazine about this 5 month old runnin and treein his own coon, or the 13 month old dual grand and lose interest/ patience with their young hound thats not turning the crank like all these pups out of everyone elses stud dog he's reading about. Then they peddle theyre pup, and on to the next one.

Re: how

quote:

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Originally posted by tsizemore
elvis how do you read a pups genetics not being smart just never heard of that

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heres one

shooting out first coon i have seen this set back some really good well started dogs the kind that have treed lots of coon the owner or some body just can't shoot they shoot and shoot and shoot some more and then it sounds like a war the dogs laying on the ground they hit the coon but it comes out alive gets ahold of dog and won't let go. we use shorts or cb's and make sure are gun is sighted in we try to bring the first one's down dead.

caged coon

quote:

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Originally posted by BFClover
this is a great post, can some of you explain more why you think caged coon are bad and when you should stop trianing this way.

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Re: Re: how

quote:

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Originally posted by elvis
Many people buy pups from a line of dogs they know nothing about, and try to make them into something they were not born to be.
If you want a dog that is always by itself, you need to start with one whos parents have stamped that indepedence trait into it.
If the pup is not natured to be that type of dog you will work twice as hard with half the success than you would achieve if the pup was born with a natural independence.
The same goes for many other natural strengths or weaknesses the pup may posess.
If you dont know anything about the pups genetic background, you have to be able to "read" the pup and not try to make it something it was not born to be.

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Hang ups

They do nothing but make tree jacking idiots

I disagree about the caged coons, i believe if it is overdone it can be bad but to say not use it at all i disagree. I like to show a pup a coon in a cage to get it fired up about what i want it to be hunting, with a young pup i will pull it up in a tree to get it to tree maybe once or twice and pet it up real good, then turn one out in front of them and let them tree it. then turn one out without them seeing it and letting them tree it. to overdo it i agree is bad but to say no completely i disagree i think it helps them know what it is i want them to be chasing and that i am pleased with that.

1. Never start out with a defective product always start with a pup from well bred proven stock, i know they all wont make it but it will better your odds a whole lot.

2. Let them learn at there own pace because they will anyhow, when they are ready they will go, you just have to wait till they are ready. (Somes got it some dont period)

3. The most important tool in training is not the e-collar it is THE LEASH, always always always leash them at the tree.

4. HUNT< HUNT< HUNT< HUNT

5. An old hunter once said if a man had more then one dog he would never have a coon dog, lot of truth to that, point is find one with the qualities you want in a dog and pour it to him, the best dog i have ever been in the woods with was owned by a man that hunted 6 nights a week and Jack was his only dog.

6. Most important of all and this is what a majority of hunters dont have and should not even try to train a pup and that is PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE

Well for what its worth thats my two cents

Good luck with the training no matter how you do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lots of great input on this thread.

As previously mentioned, cage coon can be a bad thing.We enjoy starting young dogs although I feel a man is better off buying a well started young hound that gets it done by themselves rather than trying to raise a puppy to do it if the individual is inexperienced with pups.

The most inexpensive way to obtain the knowlege needed is hunt with friends who start young dogs....you'll develope first hand knowlege good and bad and be out nothing but time.I would also recommend reading Vickie Lambs books/training articles.

If a pup has the right stuff between the ears..there will be very little training envolved other than obedience.Most pups will start the first night or two in the woods and continue to improve until a finished product.

It's very important for us as to provide the very best health/food/shelter for our dogs...it makes things much easier when trying to get the next keeper.

I feel alot of dogs are ruined by asking for too much too soon.IMO puppies need to be socialized,taught obedience,lead/load...then at 6 months old shown a cage coon...most will show interest...at that very moment put the pup in box so he/she cannot see, turn loose the coon and see if the young prospect can tree it.Most will if the proper things have been done from birth til present.Least it works for us.I feel there is no need to shoot coon after coon to dogs to keep them being coondogs...if I had a hound I had to feed fur on a consistant basis I'd shoot the dog instead.

As someone previously stated..cage coon,cage coon,tree,tree,tree,is one of the most problem makers in the young dog world today......show them one at the right time.....after that go hunting for the real thing and be patient and THINK before praising or disciplining......you'll be happy you did.

quote:

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Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
I'm going to ad another mistake alot of new people make with young hounds and pups.

They read all the ads in every magazine about this 5 month old runnin and treein his own coon, or the 13 month old dual grand and lose interest/ patience with their young hound thats not turning the crank like all these pups out of everyone elses stud dog he's reading about. Then they peddle theyre pup, and on to the next one.

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caged coons

Great Post. G L Weller.

Some very good post. My grandmother always said, " An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of Cure."

Proper training is necessary; however, training cannot take the place of good genes. This is done in the breeding pen. If it's not born to be a coon dog it won't ever be a coon dog, but bad training can create bad habits in a pup with good genes.

I've heard people ask questions like:

How can I teach my dog to split tree?
How can I teach my dog to cold trail?
How can I teach my dog to drift a track?
How can I teach my dog to go hunting?
How can I teach my dog to stay at the tree?

The answers to these questions is, You Can't.
These are traits that must be bred into a dog. I know someone is thinking, " I can make a dog hunt." You may make him leave you, but you can't make him hunt.

I believe a good pup, with all these traits, can be ruined by a poor trainer.

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if your willing to put the time in you can teach your dog to stay at the tree. I know theres lots of things that come with age but if your persistent. I believe most trainers don't put there time in and these excuses are just that.

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