Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3152

I believe a pup with great potential could be ruined by a poor handler/trainer. Most good bred pups don't make it, and I believe much of it is caused by poor training/handling.

To give some suggestions to open the door, is it:

Starting pups too early?

Expecting too much?

Hunting a pup in bad company?

Not enough patience?

Pups that just don't have what it takes?

Burning pups out?

Lack of general knowledge?

I could go on, and on, but I'm hoping this is where you will come in. The reason I am starting this thread is to help those who are having trouble training their pups. If you employ the same methods, chances are you will get the same results.

Seems to me that those who have good dogs keep good dogs, and those who don't never do. I believe it is largely because the same mistakes are made over and over. Thanks in advance for your input.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: kellogg mn
Posts: 846

Well Craig, I never and I mean never pet a dog on the tree. I pull them off, walk a ways, and when they are calm I praise them. I believe a lot of dogs are made rough on the tree by their owners. If they ain't got enough tree to stay by themselves till I get there they ain't gonna make it anyway.

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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: Southern Virginia
Posts: 374

I watched a few fella's ruin pups or young hounds by the use of the shocking coller as well. Just way to quick to correct the hound before they knew what that hound was on. I learned along time ago to keep my mouth shut unless asked for help but alot of pups are hurt to just poor training techniques.

Last edited by Adam Reynolds on 03-29-2009 at 12:54 PM

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Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 1130

I would say the number one pup destroyer is lack of hunting. If you look on the for sale boards dang near every dog on there is for sale cause they "dont have time to hunt it"


There are lots of well bred pups that could make a nice coondog if just given half a chance.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oakdale, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3753

not tying a pup at a tree

shakin coons out

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: tioga co.pa
Posts: 1728

Burn out ...Starting too young...My pups run free..nearest neighbor 3/4 mi away..Blueticks since 1954

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2410

Dogs gotta learn manners and work ethic ... the more they learn , the more the learn HOW to learn and that will translate into treeing coon.

Work ethic ... never let a dog think he's the boss , he'll never have a good work ethic if he thinks he's in charge .

That starts with barking out of place , leading in front of you , not knowing how to sit and stay .... alll kinds of stuff like that.

Hunting pups with other dogs or trying to start them the lazy man's way is just as bad ...


If you want a top dog ... you gotta do the work and so does your dog .. no shortcuts .

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Registered: May 2006
Location: northeast ohio
Posts: 1309

most people make the mistake of not doing anything with pups before they hunt them. you need to start training them at 6 weeks by getting them around noises, people, dogs, taking them walks, teaching them to look up, etc. i have my pens where they can see the squirrels running around in the back yard and climbing tree's. then most pups arent ready for real hunting until 10 to 13 mths old. ive had a few treeing their own coon at 6 or 7 mths but they also gave me alot of headaches. no pups are the same they need diff types of training.

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jake burdette
330 260 2076

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 344

There are some good points posted already on this thread, keep sharing that knowledge fellas. I'll offer my $.02 as well. I see allot of folks boxing their dogs into a certain schedule, perceived or otherwise. Each dog is an individual and should be trained as such. Too much of "If I do A then dog will do B" mentality. Thats all well and good and does make up certain parts of the dogs evolution. But just as much of that training is you learning the dog, he shows you A and then you adjust and show him B to obtain the desired response. Training a dog, at its most basic, is a give and take of response potentials. Subtle differences but the payoff is huge when a trainer can effectively use both. Learning to examine/evaluate a dog in an evolutionary concept will open up a plethora of knowledge potential for the trainer. There are more reasons a dog does what he does besides human influence. The better the trainer becomes at understanding and recognizing these things will greatly aid them in finishing that hound. The less you screw them up, the better. lol

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Registered: Dec 2007
Location: Waynesburg, KY
Posts: 295

You are right. Each pup in some way has to be handled in different ways a lot of times to make it click for them. Most pups that are going to be sure enough coondogs that are loaded with natural coon treeing ability pretty much just need exposure to good hot coon tracks to start. Some however will have to be handled a little different in other parts of the country where coon are thinner & you can't always get them on good hot tracks. Treedogs aren't hard to start, but a sure enough strong track dog can be where coon are thin & can take longer. This is where some, myself included patience wears a little thin. I personally like a treedog, but would rather have a more track minded dog that tries to do it on its' own & have learned over the years & have been guilty as charged of not having enough patience. If cherries & roasting ears are in I absolutley have no problem starting a pup in my country & have learned to pick a pup that will be prime to start during this period. I also look for natural indepence when I raise a pup here as I'm lucky enough to be able to let them run free & pick by this & am never without a pup that wont hunt by itsself & doesn't care to do its ownthing luckily. Patience, tri-tronics & lack of hunting hurt most pups though.

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Registered: Dec 2007
Location: Waynesburg, KY
Posts: 295

Someone that is a top pup trainer knows how to make a certian individual pup click. Some are very good at it I might add also. Personally I can start pups, but would rather put the finishing touches on them. I do however start my own from Nut as I've raised enough & know what traits are bred in from him & have figured out what it takes to do it, but wouldn't be against paying a very good proven pup starter to do it either if I know that they're the cream of the crop so to speak at starting pups. Some are just better at this then they are finishing them & some just like starting pups more & are done with them after they're treeing their own. I'd without a doubt pay someone that was infact top notch at starting pups in thick coon that knows when it's time for the pup to comeback to southern Ky. for me to let it get a handle on its' home turf as they've definitley got to hunt hard here most times & get deep to do it& put the finishing touches on it here myself. I've never tried it on a Nut pup though as they're trackdogs, but wouldn't care to give it a try in thick coon until they're treeing good & don't want it overdone as some folks will make a treedog out of a top prospect.

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: indiana
Posts: 580

yep no two pups are the same and if you only have one trick in your bag you need to be the one who go's to school not the pup. but the bottom line is some of them fine breed pup you noted about will not make a coon dog even if they had a head start program for dogs.there is a fine line between a good trainer and a dum a$$. what makes witch side of the line your on is a gray area at times,

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: Athens, Tn.
Posts: 864

Here's one that you left out. Alot of people are to heavy handed with a pup/dog. They'll beat a dog for breathing to heavy. I know
a guy that could take a 'World Champion' and turn him into a piece of junk in less than a week. I remember once he gave $5,000.00 for a dog that was a top hound within a couple of weeks this dog was completely ruined. Everytime you'd approach
the dog he would lay down and start urinating everywhere. This guy doesn't coon hunt anymore. Another thing I see a lot of is people hunting young dogs with junk runners it'll ruin one everytime. Once I see a young dog will tree his own coon I'll single him out and hunt him by himself and never hunt a young
dog with a mean dog from growling in the dog box to fighting on the tree.
Jeff

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Minerva, Ohio
Posts: 1103

Hunt time! I am guilty of this with both of my dogs, you gotta put them in the woods and be commited to them.

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Registered: May 2006
Location: northeast ohio
Posts: 1309

ANOTHER BIG MISTAKE IS THAT PEOPLE COLLECT DOGS. THEN THEY END UP WITH WAY TOO MANY TO HUNT. YOU NEED TO WORK WITH ONE DOG AT A TIME UNTIL ITS A SOLID COONER.

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jake burdette
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

TriTronics and other e-collars are simply a tool. Unfortunately, like most tools they are often misused.

Used correctly, TriTronics can be a valuable tool. Coon hunters are lucky in that one of our own is well versed in this proper use.

If you have old issues of Bloodlines and Cooners check out Vicki Lamb's old articles.

Three most common misuses of e-collars are: #1 not conducting the proper conditioning of e-collars.

#2 mistake is the stop, drop, and shock method of trashreaking.

#3 mistake is the use of high levels to satisfy the trainer wanting to get even.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 259

After many years of starting many pups and watching others start pups I really believe the number one thing that will ruin a good pup is a handler that plays with a caged coon or lead coon. The second thing I see is most people hunt a pup with an old dog before they’ll hunt the pup alone. All my pups are taken to the woods alone or with a pup the same age both day and night and must show me they are tree minded, trying to track and wonder off to investigate things on their own before they are ever hunted with another dog. If that pup trees anything alone by scent (House cat, squirrel, possum or what ever) it’s gonna do more for the pup than shooting 20 coon out that the old dog treed. The third thing I see as a mistake is trying to break a pup off trash before the pup is capable of treeing coon alone and with other dogs on a regular basis for a reasonable period of time. Pups with drive and tree power will most likely run off game and tree off game from time to time but it’s not the end of the world and beating or shocking the crap out of them only sets them back. Everybody does things different and sees things different; this is how I see it.

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: n/e wi
Posts: 556

I haven't trained but a few and yes every one needs something a little diferent. but I have found that you have to do the same thing with every one and thats yard training. I see these pups come to the woods and don't even no there name. and these guys have had hounds way longer than I have. I wont let mine out huntng until they come,sit,stay and hill.thats wat I meen by yard work. I also want them to be started before I let them hunt out. so drags not to many but so they are running that sent trail to the tree.caged coon a cupple of them not to many again. then when I take them to the woods its with a strait dog no trash....there again only tell the pups treeing with the finished dog then off by him self. or your going to end up with a (metoo) from there on It's coons coons coons. put that pup on them. now maybe I'mjust geting lucky but I have put out a few strait ones. and i'm not interested in a dog that some one else has worked with I have gone through my share of them. I fill the most important thing is to make sure you put the pup in good situations. and i'm dun babbling jmo

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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 3377

Dogs don't learn anything sitting there on the chain or in the box.

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Registered: Dec 2008
Location: King,NC
Posts: 58

1 dog year is about 7 human years therefore........
I think of a pup as a child if the pup is 6 mos old then I think of a 2 and a half to 3 year old child. Would I expect a 3 yr old child to understand what I am tryin to tell this puppy?

I belive a lot of people think this dog is bred good it should know to jump in the dog box.....

I've seen it. and a should know from the day it's born that a racoon will climb a tree. HA HA !!!!!

You have to lots of time with a puppy and lots and lots of patience

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Mt.Airy, N.C.
Posts: 3152

Mercy! There is enough information here to write a book.

Too many caged coon.

Too heavy handed. I've seen handlers whip pups for treeing a possum that are just starting to tree.

Shock collars. Lots of dogs have been ruined because of electricity.

Too many dogs....not hunting enough....Plus all of the other tips. None of us know so much that we can't learn something else. There's always room for improvment, no matter how long you've been hunting.

Hope others will " Chime In" and help us out.

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: n/e wi
Posts: 556

some peaple have the ability to train pups some shouldn't even try.

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ch nite ch pr nates hardwood kelly
pr nates hardwood hammerin hank

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Fort Valley, GA
Posts: 1194

Trying to train a pup.If you have a well bred pup it should come naturally.All a good bred pup needs is guidance.

Showing a coon in cage after pup will bark on it
Shooting out too many coons
Not hunting pups enough or too much
Too much disipline,get a handle on your pup then hunt him.I hunt my pups 1 turn out 1 tree then put them up for a couple of days once they show me they can trail a bit and tree they are hunted by themselves

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: wakarusa, indiana
Posts: 3304

quote:

---

Originally posted by Larry Atherton
TriTronics and other e-collars are simply a tool. Unfortunately, like most tools they are often misused.

Used correctly, TriTronics can be a valuable tool. Coon hunters are lucky in that one of our own is well versed in this proper use.

If you have old issues of Bloodlines and Cooners check out Vicki Lamb's old articles.

Three most common misuses of e-collars are: #1 not conducting the proper conditioning of e-collars.

#2 mistake is the stop, drop, and shock method of trashreaking.

#3 mistake is the use of high levels to satisfy the trainer wanting to get even.

---

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: munfordville ky.
Posts: 1166

hang ups & caged coons. every thing else is a drop in the bucket.

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