UKC Forums - UKC Top Producer List

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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- UKC Top Producer List (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=400778)

Posted by hunter105 on 01-20-2011 06:33 PM:

Dwils

I was not trying to disrespect any ones nite champ, I have also had great Nt Champs. My point was in the low population areas Nite champ degrees are very easy to come by. I read the back of CB and see alot of hunts that host only 10 dogs, a couple casts, and even many one cast hunts. I think there are alot of dogs carrying that degree that don't deserve, and I truly wish the days of the 30-40 dog club hunts would come back. The nt Ch. degree used to carry alot more respect than it does now at least where hunt numbers are low.

Posted by ov_blues on 01-20-2011 06:44 PM:

Re: Re: Just for conversation....

quote:
Originally posted by ml2543
Maybe change the HTX Degree where you have to complete 3 hunt tests to get the HTX degree.

That is what you have to do now to get the HTX degree, pass 3 hunt tests under 3 different inspectors.

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Posted by kycooner1 on 01-20-2011 06:59 PM:

I personally think the list are fine just the way they are..I would like to see one more category added for all time historical reproducers.

And in the top Perf Sire and Dams,, I would like to see the top 10 perf dogs of each breed posted.

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Posted by longshot on 01-20-2011 07:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by kycooner1
I personally think the list are fine just the way they are..I would like to see one more category added for all time historical reproducers.

And in the top Perf Sire and Dams,, I would like to see the top 10 perf dogs of each breed posted.

Yep, what he said.

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Posted by StrawberryMt on 01-20-2011 09:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
All pups should be considered for the percentages. A pup that isn't even impressive enough to get you to send in the $20 that it takes to permanently register it is a FAIL. It should be counted as a fail. If you get your pup raised up, permanently registered, and it never does tree a coon despite many nights of hunting and exposure to coon, it should be considered a FAIL and counted into the percentages as such. If you have your dog registered, trained, and enter it in hunts and it can win enough casts to earn NtCh degree then that is great, but to not count all of the dogs that were culled before they were even registered, is to be in total denial of the FAIL rate of any given breeding.
Different studs have different likelyhood of getting their pups into the "right" hands. But if you look at a stud that has reproduced over 100 pups, even if those pups didn't get to the "right" people, the "right" people would be hearing about those pups [word travels even among pleasure/hide hunters] and would be buying them, or breeding their females to that stud. So even a stud that has a hard time getting their pups out there at first, if they are any good, they will eventually get there.
With the stud that I promoted that made the list [Credit River Tucker] even though we live outside the "mainstream" of the coon hunting world, and we weren't able to break into the market selling pups into the comp world, enough of his pups still turned out, that he was able to maintain a solid percentage.

I agree %100

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Posted by Rocketman55 on 01-21-2011 12:27 AM:

Folks I'm really gonna turn some heads on this response but here goes. For me, a male dog would need to be at or very near 25% for me to give him special consideration for a mating. But there you go, I don't put much emphasis on these reproducing percentage numbers. I would want to know how they hunt, strike, trail, tree and behave at the tree before I even look at the reproducers list.

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Posted by Redwood Hounds on 01-21-2011 04:03 AM:

What I'm waiting for is for UKC to come up with a Reproducers list for dogs and bitches that have had less than 100 or 20 pups. So we can see the true Reporducres. Those country coondogs that were bred twice, and out of 17 pups, 12 that went on to get titles. I think if a breeding/sire/dam can't turn out at LEAST 60% good pups, then maybe they shouldn't be bred. You can cry numbers all you want, and how there's no way a dog with 1-5k pups can make 60%, well, maybe that dog shouldn't be bred, or maybe someone should have been more selective at what they let get backed up to that dog. I hear how a lot of pups go to people that will never nite hunt them. I say this, maybe people should be more selective of where pups go, and I bet 90% of the people buying these pups out of the flavor of the month studdog are looking for there next nite hunt prospect, but the reality is they just don't make the grade! I don't go getting pups out of hot ticket studs to make my next country coondog, I get them for my next comp dog, even then 70% are to ignorant to even be worth a bullet. Because 10% is something to be proud of!

You can sure see the difference in worlds, from the east and the west. Money in hand, verses game in tree.

I love how just because a dog has a GRNITECH title, it's worthy of being bred. I don't care WHO it's Parents were. Every dog should be bred on it own merit.

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Posted by JustinM on 01-21-2011 07:03 AM:

I laugh most of the reproducer lists. I havn't looked at the list in close to two years probably, but I have a feeling I know some who owns the top studs. Most just pump up the %.

Who are the 1 Top reproducers of Englsih, Bluetick and TW if someone doesn't mind to post real quick. Owners names please

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Posted by tylerman on 01-21-2011 02:40 PM:

I think the list is fine...it makes people or should make them more responsible to know where the pups are & what they are doing...if that pup is special then you should know about it..if it is that good you should help title it if the owner dont...but getting the good bred dogs to the right people is the key...you have to breed resposible & followup//idealy you could breed a litter..send em all out to a pro pup starter & then sell them...but that would not be fair to the rest of the breeders ##s..same as pro handlers being the only people to tiltle most every dog.

that brings up the fact...numbers dont lie..but liars make numbers...

*****.if we go off avg..then the avg guy should be able to afford to buy...start..train & compete with it and win...****

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Posted by joseph mcdonald on 01-21-2011 03:16 PM:

Rocketman 55, I will have to agree with you. Those lists are just a tool, not the be-all, end-all.

If your using these to not get out and do the leg work, you probably wont be satisfied with the results. jmo.

Posted by JB PITCREW on 01-21-2011 04:11 PM:

UKC's Hunt Test Policies and Procedures

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Of course not. The HTX is not a title. Even UKC will tell you HTX is not a title.

This was taken right off UKC's Hunt Test Policies on the front page.

TITLES
12. Upon the completion of three (3) successful hunt test passes by the three different inspectors, a dog will be issued the TITLE of HTX as a suffix to the dog's UKC registered name. The owner of record will be sent a degree and new Easy Entry card for each additional TITLE.

13. Multiple TITLES may be earned for each additional three (3) successful hunt test passes. Multiple TITLES will be indicated by a numerical addition to the HTX TITLE such as HTX2,HTX3 ect. The owner of record will be sent a degree and new Easy Entry card for each additional TITLE.

JIM, You need to check your facts.

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Posted by tylerman on 01-21-2011 04:34 PM:

Lets get serious here...you can kid your friends & Ill kid mine but lets not kid each other...Would you breed to a" htx titled "only dog? Or does the list & nt ch or grand nt ch come more in to play?

An old man told me yrs ago & dog that cant conform as in hocked flat footed.short eared,too tall,ect should never make grand nite & a dog that cant hunt should never make grand show...that would be a better htx...conform & perform..we should not expect less..

Posted by JB PITCREW on 01-21-2011 04:38 PM:

TITLES DONT MEAN S#!+

I'd Breed to a dog if it didnt have a title at ALL.....I Look for COONHOUNDS not TITLES!!!!!!

Posted by JiM on 01-21-2011 04:39 PM:

todd kellam
UKC Moderator

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 4233

As long as we keep the HTX certification meaningful, it will have a value in today's world of coonhounds. A pass rate of 33% tells me it's being done honestly. I would not be embarrassed to fail one as some factors are beyond you or your dog's control. It doesn't necessarily mean the dog is faulty, just that it didn't pass that night. Who hasn't had a bad night hunting?

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Posted by JB PITCREW on 01-21-2011 04:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
todd kellam
UKC Moderator

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 4233

As long as we keep the HTX certification meaningful, it will have a value in today's world of coonhounds. A pass rate of 33% tells me it's being done honestly. I would not be embarrassed to fail one as some factors are beyond you or your dog's control. It doesn't necessarily mean the dog is faulty, just that it didn't pass that night. Who hasn't had a bad night hunting?

WHERE DOES THIS SAY THE HTX IS NOT A TITLE?

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Todd Kellam invented these hunt tests and even he refers to it as a certificate.

Posted by Steve Raleigh on 01-21-2011 04:52 PM:

Ohhh Lordy here we go....Mr. Todd kellam, is the HTX a title or not??

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Posted by JiM on 01-21-2011 04:59 PM:

It is what it is. I wasn't looking to get all hung up on terminology.
The toughest thing about making an HTX dog is finding an HTX hunt to go to. I can find more AKC hunts than HTX tests.

Posted by tylerman on 01-21-2011 05:08 PM:

JB Pitcrew...please post your dogs listed 3 gen ped?

I may be wrong here in this case...but usually the guy that makes that claim has a different set of papers than his talk reflects...not trying to demean you personally but it is almost always the case that men breed to titles more than they claim...& those that dont are getting alot of dogs on the repo list...I have not seen a pr or htx on the repo list? Correct me if I am wrong..

Posted by Maniac on 01-21-2011 05:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
It is what it is. I wasn't looking to get all hung up on terminology.
The toughest thing about making an HTX dog is finding an HTX hunt to go to. I can find more AKC hunts than HTX tests.

WHEN DO U WANT TO GO TO ONE. I CAN FIX U UP

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Posted by Wmagicwebb on 01-21-2011 06:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
It is what it is. I wasn't looking to get all hung up on terminology.
The toughest thing about making an HTX dog is finding an HTX hunt to go to. I can find more AKC hunts than HTX tests.

jim we are having 4 this year come on down

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Posted by nkisamo1 on 01-21-2011 07:22 PM:

I wish that UKC would include all dogs with in the Historical List. Not just dogs that are under 25 years old. The reason being to compare if you are planning on AI seman or direct descandants.

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Posted by Ben Crocker on 01-21-2011 08:40 PM:

Why is the reasoning for 25 years or less for historical. Lipper is one of the top walker names of past and present and his name can't appear because of age. Don't care to me but sure don't make any sense.

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Posted by Travis Eastman on 01-21-2011 10:13 PM:

Sackett Jr. was born in 1990 so in a few years he will be removed as well. Historical is historical does not make sense to me.

Posted by OH English on 01-21-2011 10:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ben Crocker
Why is the reasoning for 25 years or less for historical. Lipper is one of the top walker names of past and present and his name can't appear because of age. Don't care to me but sure don't make any sense.

I agree. The name, HISTORICAL, should be open to all dogs, no matter the age.

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Posted by Ben Crocker on 01-21-2011 10:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Travis Eastman
Sackett Jr. was born in 1990 so in a few years he will be removed as well. Historical is historical does not make sense to me.

Your right Travis, time sure does fly by.

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