UKC Forums - Dog Wormer

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Posted by Double D on 06-27-2007 06:46 PM:

Dog Wormer

Does anybody know what the best dog wormer is for just about any type of worms.

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Posted by nitechamp bud on 06-27-2007 06:53 PM:

Panacur

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Posted by chadf on 06-28-2007 03:30 AM:

there aren't any one for all wormers.

i give ivomec monthly for heartworms and I also keep zimectrin gold (ivomec+praziquantel for tapes round worms and such)and panacur (Fenbendazole for hooks whips and some tapes)on hand as well for all other worms.

Posted by ahallada on 06-28-2007 03:51 AM:

Iverhart MAX

The new Iverhart MAX will take care of most common worms in dogs. It is a combination of Ivermectin/Pyrantel/Praziquantel. Very reasonably priced also.

Another route to take would be to use Drontal Plus which has Pyrantel/Febentel/Praziquantel and then give Ivermectin separately once a month for HW prevention.

Allen

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Posted by BRYAN J on 06-28-2007 03:59 AM:

Isn't Drontal Plus given per weight too?

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Posted by ahallada on 06-28-2007 04:12 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by BRYAN J
Isn't Drontal Plus given per weight too?

Yes,
Bayer developed three different sizes of Drontal Plus for dogs, and each size has doses posted on the sides of the box. I'd recommend getting the medium size tabs if you are going to get just one size as this will treat small, medium and large breed dogs.

Personally I think Drontal Plus is expensive and you can get the same thing by buying the horse wormers Rintal (Febentel) and Strongid-T (Pyrantel) and rotating them monthly at a dose of 1cc/10# orally. Give Praziquantel (Droncit) if you are seeing tapeworms in the stool. Give Ivermectin once a month for HW prevention. This would cost less than a buck a month per dog for a great deworming program.

Allen

Posted by brindle_boone on 06-28-2007 04:55 AM:

we use Ivramectim, horse wormer.it is about $5-$6.00 a tube and one tube covers up to 8 dogs...it has worked for everything for us, thats what we use every month and it helps with fleas ticks and skeeters!
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Posted by AnnieP on 06-28-2007 06:57 AM:

My vet said Equimax - horse wormer - (ivermectin/praziquantel) would get everything, including tapes and HW. He said I could use it in place of regular ivermectin every month if I wanted to.

1cc per 60lbs. Comes in 6cc tubes. I get it for around $13 at my feed store.

You certainly would not want to use both this and plain ivermectin every month. You'd be overdosing your dogs on ivermectin. That can lead to kidney and liver problems.

Annie

Posted by ahallada on 06-28-2007 08:12 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by AnnieP
My vet said Equimax - horse wormer - (ivermectin/praziquantel) would get everything, including tapes and HW. He said I could use it in place of regular ivermectin every month if I wanted to.

1cc per 60lbs. Comes in 6cc tubes. I get it for around $13 at my feed store.

You certainly would not want to use both this and plain ivermectin every month. You'd be overdosing your dogs on ivermectin. That can lead to kidney and liver problems.

Annie

Annie,
You wouldn't get very effective round worm control with this combination so you would want to add in either febentel or pyrantel for this. If you are in an area that has whip worms or giardia issues you would also want to use febentel or fenbendazole. Ivermectin/Praziquantel would have a narrow margin on internal parasites even at higher doses. Ivermectin is not very effective against roiundworms and it is marginally effective against hookworms depending on doseages. At higher doses it can be very effective against hookworms. I still prefer to mix Ivermectin with either Pyrantel or Febentel for better spectrum and to reduce resistance issues.

Allen

Posted by bob-innis on 06-28-2007 02:18 PM:

ahallada you are correct.also the paste wormers for horse Equimax i think is only 17% ivomec.you would have to give the whole tube to a 50 lb dog just to get the right amount of ivomec in him.you would have to give him 200 micograms per pound to worm him correctly.and that for round,hook,whip,threadworms.thats at a dosage of 1cc per 110 lbs.i round it off to 1cc per 100.and i have found this keeps them at bay.say in check if you will.and just for heartworms the dose is lower i think its either 6 or 7 micrograms per pound.no 1 wormer is a wonder wormer.you need to rotate.
a good worming plan of the following works for me thur the years
febendazole(safe guard, pancur)
pyrantel pamoate(nemex 2, stongid t)
piperazine(piperazine 17 or 34%, wazine 17%)
praziquantel for tapes as needed.(fish tapes forte)
ivermectin 1% every month.
i worm my dogs on the 1st of every month and ivermectin on the 15th every month

Posted by willseeyalater on 06-28-2007 03:56 PM:

Hey Innis

Are you sure a whole tube of Equimax would be right? It's enough to de-worm a 1300 lbs horse so that seems like a huge dose for a 50-70 lb dog. I have been using it but only putting about a half inch long dose onto bread and peanut butter for mine to gobble down. Am I way low or what? My hound weighs 62 lbs. Where did you get your dosing info? It's 1.87 % Ivermectin in there. I understand that 1% ivomectin is to be given at .01 cc per ten lbs of dog. Is there a concentration difference between Iver and ivo-mectin? Just wondering if I am near or way off the effective dose. I rotate the Equimax with another plain ivermectin horse wormer each month and have been dosing it about the same, about like what I would put on a toothbrush with toothpaste. Not an exact scienctific way but not overdoing it I am sure.

Posted by BLUEDUCK on 06-28-2007 04:22 PM:

I use Equimax and have had real good luck. Here is the break down figured by someone smarter than myself. I have accidently double dosed my beagles and they are doing fine. I go by the first chart.

A dog needs 2.5mg to 3mg of Droncit (Prazequantel) per pound to effectively kill tape worms.

The Equimax (plunger of paste) that I purchased contains (ivermectin 1.87% / praziquantel 14.03%) 91 mcg ivermectin per lb. (200 mcg/kg) and 0.68 mg praziquantel per lb. (1.5 mg/kg) of body weight. Its net weight is 0.225 oz (6.42g) and treats 1320 lbs of horse flesh. This plunger contains 897.6 mg of Droncit (1320 lbs X 0.68 mg/lb.). I then took 3cc syringes and removed the contents. I came up with 7cc total. Now then�897.6mg divided by 7cc equals 128.14mg/1cc of Droncit. Which would treat a dog between 43lbs. and 51lbs (128.14mg divided by 3mg equals 42.7lbs. and 128.14 divided by 2.5mg equals 51.26).

This chart maybe helpful:

1cc = 43lbs. to 51lbs.
9/10cc = 38lbs. to 46lbs.
8/10cc = 34lbs. to 41lbs.
7/10cc = 30lbs. to 36lbs.
6/10cc = 26lbs. to 31lbs.
5/10cc = 21lbs. to 26lbs.
4/10cc = 17lbs. to 21lbs.
3/10cc = 13lbs. to 15lbs.
2/10cc = 9lbs. to 10lbs.
1/10cc = 4lbs. to 5lbs.

Now about the Ivermectin�

�The dosage used to prevent heartworm disease is only 3 - 6 micrograms per pound of body weight, given orally once a month. A much higher dose of Ivermectin (50 mcg/lb) is required to kill adult hookworms and whipworms, and an even higher (100 mcg/lb) is about 90% effective against the common roundworm of dogs�� (Not recommended for Collies). Also, �To achieve the dose of 100 mcg/lb, Ivomec should be given orally at 0.1 cc for every 10 pounds of body weight. This is equivalent to 1/4 cc for a 25 pound dog and can be given once a month to prevent the diseases caused by the four parasites mentioned. All dogs should be tested for heartworm disease before the first dose.�

Based on the above information of 100mcg/lb dosage needed�I came to these conclusions. Remember the Equimax (plunger of paste) that I purchased contains (ivermectin 1.87% / praziquantel 14.03%) 91 mcg ivermectin per lb. (200 mcg/kg) of body weight. Its net weight is 0.225 oz (6.42g) and treats 1320 lbs of horse flesh. This plunger contains 120,120mcg of Ivermectin (1320 lbs X 91mcg/lb.). Remember it contains 7cc�now then�120,120mcg divided by 7cc equals 17,160mcg/1cc of Ivermectin. Which would treat a dog of 172lbs. (120,120mcg divided by 100mcg equals 171.6lbs.).

The following chart would be:

1cc = 172lbs.
9/10cc = 154lbs.
8/10cc = 137lbs.
7/10cc = 120lbs.
6/10cc = 103lbs.
5/10cc = 86lbs.
4/10cc = 69lbs.
3/10cc = 52lbs.
2/10cc = 34lbs.
1/10cc = 17lbs.

Now then when using the Equimax�based on these to charts a 25lb. dog who received a 5/10cc dose of Droncit (praziquantel) but, would also receive enough Ivermectin for 86lbs (or nearly 3 and half dogs). A Vet told me this high dosage of Ivermectin would not hurt my dogs. In fact, he assured me that there are no studies that he is aware of showing any correlation between Ivermectin use and kidney failures.

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Posted by ahallada on 06-28-2007 04:26 PM:

Re: Hey Innis

quote:
Originally posted by willseeyalater
Are you sure a whole tube of Equimax would be right? It's enough to de-worm a 1300 lbs horse so that seems like a huge dose for a 50-70 lb dog. I have been using it but only putting about a half inch long dose onto bread and peanut butter for mine to gobble down. Am I way low or what? My hound weighs 62 lbs. Where did you get your dosing info? It's 1.87 % Ivermectin in there. I understand that 1% ivomectin is to be given at .01 cc per ten lbs of dog. Is there a concentration difference between Iver and ivo-mectin? Just wondering if I am near or way off the effective dose. I rotate the Equimax with another plain ivermectin horse wormer each month and have been dosing it about the same, about like what I would put on a toothbrush with toothpaste. Not an exact scienctific way but not overdoing it I am sure.

You have to use alot of paste for dogs which is why I recommend using the liquid for more accurate dosing. Horse doses are far lower than dogs. You can buy the liquid oral 1% Ivermectin for horses which is 10mg/ml. The dosing range for endoparasites and ectoparasites is very broad with the toxic range in the 30mg/kg range and LD50 at 50mg/kg. I use .1cc/10# of the 1% liquid Ivermectin for treating hookworms and scabies. This dose is also microfilaricidal for HW. It is not a very effective roundworm anthelmintic even at higher doses so you still want to combine it with pyrantel (Strongid -T) liquid at 1cc/10#. Fenbentel also works well like I said above and will add whipworm, hookworm, giardia, and roundworm control.

The rule of thumb on Ivermectin is to not use these higher doses in collie related breeds ie. white feet, don't treat. That includes Aussies. The are more susceptible to Ivermectin toxicity because of differences in their blood/brain barrier. Ivermectin is safe to give pregnant animals. Here is some more info:

Dogs

As a preventative for heartworm:

1. 0.006 mg/kg (6 mcg/kg) PO once monthly (Hribernik 1989)

2. 6-12 mcg/kg PO once monthly (Knight 2000)

3. Minimum dosage of 5.98 micrograms/kg (0.00598 mg/kg) PO per month (Rawlings and Calvert 1989)

4. Minimum dosage of 6 micrograms/kg (0.006 mg/kg) PO per month. Three tablet sizes are available: For dogs up to 25 lbs (68 micrograms); 26-50 lbs (136 micrograms); and 51-100 lbs (272 micrograms). Dogs weighing more than 100 lbs. should receive additional drug so that the minimum dosage is covered. (Package insert; Heartgard 30�--MSD)

As a microfilaricide:

1. 3-4 weeks after adulticide therapy, admit to hospital and administer 0.05 mg/kg (Dilute 10 mg/ml solution (Ivomec�) to a 1:10 solution with propylene glycol). Monitor for symptoms of toxicity (depression, mydriasis, ataxia, vomiting, diarrhea, and shock) throughout the day. If adverse effects are severe, (usually less than 5% of the time), treat with fluids and corticosteroids. If no adverse effects are noted, animal may be sent home to return in 3 weeks for microfilaricide concentration test. If negative at that time, begin prophylaxis therapy. If positive, recheck in one week. If 4 weeks after therapy microfilaria persist, reevaluate for adult heartworms. See the complete reference for more information. (Hribernik 1989)

2. 50-200 micrograms/kg (0.05-0.2 mg/kg) as a single dose; contraindicated in collies (Knight 1988)

3. 4 weeks after adulticide therapy, give 50 micrograms/kg PO (dilute as in "a" above) in the morning. Monitor for adverse effects throughout the day; if no serious effects, may discharge in late afternoon. Do not use in Collies or Collie-Mix breeds. (Rawlings and Calvert 1989)

As an ectoparasiticide (miticide):

1. For treatment of Sarcoptes scabiei or Otodectes cynotis infestations: 300 micrograms/kg (0.3 mg/kg) SC or PO; repeat in 14 days (Paradis 1989)

2. For demodicosis: 400-600 mcg/kg PO daily. Consider using the test dose method: Start at 100 mcg/kg PO and increase by 100 mcg/day until target dose is reached. Treatent typically required for 2-4 months. If toxicity is noted, discontinue. Do not use in collies, Shelties, Old English Sheepdogs and other herding dogs. (DeManuelle 2000)

3. As scabicide: 300-400 mcg/kg PO or SC once weekly for weeks. If using the 1% injection, 1 ml = 10,000 mcg. Beware in sensitive breeds (e.g. Collies, etc.; "white feet, don't treat"). Check heartworm status prior to treatment. Adverse effects are rare outside of sensitive breeds. (Foil 2003c)

As an endoparasiticide:

1. For treatment of parasitic lung disease (Capillaria spp.): 0.2 mg/kg PO once (Bauer 1988)

2. For Oslerus osleri: 0.4 mg/kg SC once (Reinemeyer 1995)

3. For Eucoleus boehmi: 0.2 mg/kg PO once (Reinemeyer 1995)

4. For Pneumonyssoides caninum: 0.2 mg/kg SC once (Reinemeyer 1995)

Allen

Posted by Bolt Action on 06-28-2007 06:09 PM:

We use a combination of wormers to treat all worms.

Tapeworms: Droncit (praziquantal) or Cestex
Heartworms: Ivermectin Injectable by mouth
Hook, Whips, and roundworms: Pyrantal Pamoate (nemex, strongid-T) or Safe-Guard Liquid (Panacur) I switch them out.

So many people think ivermectin kills every worm and it doesn't. It only works on heartworms and mites.

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Posted by AnnieP on 06-29-2007 01:25 AM:

My vet hasn't steered me wrong yet. I think I'll continue to follow his advice.

Annie

ps...I have them checked fairly regularly for both HW and intestinal worms. Not a single one since I've been using just the Equimax about every three months or so. I use regular ivermectin in the other months. Something must be working.

Posted by longshot on 06-29-2007 01:45 AM:

I had it all figured out but after reading all this im completely confused. Guess my canines will be packin around a few worms probably.. Just kiddin.. Good info guys......

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Posted by david hall on 06-29-2007 05:54 AM:

i am like mark i am totally confused, if you would answer me in Country Boy terms lol, say i have a 55-60pd dog that i am wanting to worm a dog on a monthly basis for Every Worm Possible heart round penn tape hook and soforth what would you all Recommend, as of right now i use Pure IVOMEC LIQUID 1/2 CC for HW and SafeGuard horse wormer paste for the Others has worked so far but need some advice , i have thought about converting over to Interceptor Tabs 1 a month but a little high for the number of dogs (thanks)

Posted by ahallada on 06-29-2007 06:57 AM:

If you want to save money then stick with separate wormers:

1. Ivomec 1% Oral Liquid for Horses: .1cc/10# every month for HW, ear mites, sarcoptic mites, hookworms (don't use in collie related breeds)

2. Pyrantel Pamoate: Strongid-T oral liquid for horses: 1cc/10# every month for roundworms/hookworms

Rotate every other month with:

Panacur (Fenbendazole) or Safegard (Fenbendazole) see packet

or

Rintal (Febentel) oral liquid for horses: 1cc/10# every month for whipworms, roundworms, hookworms, giardia ( giardia only if used 3 days in a row)

3. Praziquantel tablets: Use as needed when tapeworms are seen in feces

The other options that may be a little more expensive but easier are:

1. Drontal Plus (fenbentel/pryantel/praziquantel) and Ivermectin (see above)

2. Iverhart Max- (Ivermectin/Pyrantel/Praziquantel)

3. Heartgard Plus (Ivermectin/Pyrantel) and Praziquantel tabs as needed for tapeworms.

4. Interceptor (Milbemycin)

Allen

Posted by Double D on 06-29-2007 08:46 AM:

Is ivomec safe for dogs.

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Posted by ahallada on 06-29-2007 03:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Double D
Is ivomec safe for dogs.

Depends on how much you give. The LD 50 for Ivermectin is 80mg/kg which is about 800x the dose you would use for hookworm or scabies treatment above. Don't use in puppies less than 6 weeks of age. There have been toxicities in collie related breeds however at lower doses because of differences in their central nervous system and blood/brain barrier. So to answer your question above, in coonhounds it is fairly safe and can be used in pregnant females. If you stick with the the Ivomec 1% liquid and stay with the .1cc/10# (1cc/100#) dose orally you shouldn't experience any problems. I've used this dose in puppies to treat demodex mange every day for 2-3 months without a problem. Signs of toxicity are usually neurologic. Signs such as depression, vomiting (from central trigger zone effects), weakness, seizure activity, or any other neurlogic signs would be indications for stopping.

This is from Plumbs Current Veterinary Pharmacy:

In dogs, symptoms of acute toxicity rarely occur at single dosages of 2 mg/kg (2000 micrograms/kg) or less. At 2.5 mg/kg, mydriasis occurs, and at 5 mg/kg, tremors occur. At doses of 10 mg/kg, severe tremors and ataxia are seen. Deaths occurred when dosages exceeded 40 mg/kg, but the LD50 is 80 mg/kg. Dogs (Beagles) receiving 0.5 mg/kg PO for 14 weeks developed no signs of toxicity, but at 1-2 mg/kg for the same time period, developed mydriasis and had some weight decreases. Half of the dogs receiving 2 mg/kg/day for 14 weeks developed symptoms of depression, tremors, ataxia, anorexia, and dehydration.

The Collie breed appears to be more sensitive to the toxic effects of ivermectin than other canine breeds. This may be due to a more permeable blood-brain barrier to the drug or drug accumulation in the CNS of this breed. At the dosage recommended for heartworm prophylaxis, it is generally believed that the drug is safe to use in Collies.

Dogs who receive an overdosage of ivermectin or develop signs of acute toxicity (CNS effects, GI, cardiovascular) should receive supportive and symptomatic therapy. Emptying the gut should be considered for recent massive oral ingestions in dogs or cats. For more information on ivermectin toxicity in dogs, refer to the following reference: Paul, A., and W. Tranquilli. 1989. Ivermectin. In Current Veterinary Therapy X: Small Animal Practice. Edited by R. W. Kirk. 140-142. Philadelphia: WB Saunders.

Allen

Posted by bob-innis on 06-29-2007 06:27 PM:

ahallada is very knowegable and gave very good advice
1 thing i would like to add if you dont have your hounds on a heartworms meds you should get them checked for h/m before you start.thats jmo.if your dog does have h/w.belive me you want to know before you treat them.because thats something me myself never want to go threw again.

Posted by bob-innis on 06-29-2007 07:01 PM:

willseeyalater

yes your not killing worms your treating for heartworms and tapes and dogs dont need to be treated for tape worms every
month add some of the other wormers to your monthly worming to be more effective for your hounds.

BLUEDUCK

what other wormers are you using besides Equimax ??

david hall
im with ya on all the confusion just follow ahallada advice
and you should be good to go

Posted by Double D on 06-29-2007 09:24 PM:

Thanks everyone i appreiacate your info.

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Posted by FLINT on 06-30-2007 04:55 AM:

what about ivormec for pigs.
that you give under the skin.I was told this will kill all the worms
plus the tic/s and fleas.i WAS ALSO TOLD THIS IS THE ..MOST POTENT..WORMER ..THERE IS..ON ..THE ..MARKET..

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Posted by thunderwood on 06-30-2007 09:43 AM:

i guess its been said a couple dozen times,,so heres one more,,ivermectin horse wormer always worked best for me,,just a dab as big as a capsule on the roof of their mouth once a week for a month ,you'll see a big difference. then once a month for precautionary measures

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