Registered: Apr 2009
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4 dog cast; Dogs A,B,C are struck, dogs A,B treed. Going into the tree handler of dog C trees his dog split. Score dogs A,B (with a coon) going to dog C. Now for the question: Do you release dogs A,B into dog D (who has not been struck) or are dogs A,B leash locked? Rule 11 b. states handler has the option to turn dogs loose back into "OPENING' dogs if 1 dog is declared treed. But it say's nothing about turning dog(s) loose if the dog is just competing for a strike position.

To me this is giving dog D an unfair advantage. Score dog C turn these 3 loose and dog D opens right after (first 3 or 4 seconds) he goes in for 100 not 25 or what ever. I know if I'm dog A or B I want mine off the leash competing. Cant score points on the leash.

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You have the choice to cast or lead those dogs, they are not leash locked. This question came up right after this rule was put in place and we were told the wording of 11(b) would be corrected but it never was.

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No A and B are leash locked because dog C is treed and dog D has not opened. But as soon as dog D opens and is struck in you're free to turn loose.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Night Shift
No A and B are leash locked because dog C is treed and dog D has not opened. But as soon as dog D opens and is struck in you're free to turn loose.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Well I may he wrong but I'm prolly not.

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It was discussed on here shortly after the rule was passed. The treed dog breaks the 8 so dogs A&B have their option to cast or lead. I think your non-hunting judge at the 16 was wrong. I'll see if I can find the thread where it was discussed.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Frank M
4 dog cast; Dogs A,B,C are struck, dogs A,B treed. Going into the tree handler of dog C trees his dog split. Score dogs A,B (with a coon) going to dog C. Now for the question: Do you release dogs A,B into dog D (who has not been struck) or are dogs A,B leash locked? Rule 11 b. states handler has the option to turn dogs loose back into "OPENING' dogs if 1 dog is declared treed. But it say's nothing about turning dog(s) loose if the dog is just competing for a strike position.

To me this is giving dog D an unfair advantage. Score dog C turn these 3 loose and dog D opens right after (first 3 or 4 seconds) he goes in for 100 not 25 or what ever. I know if I'm dog A or B I want mine off the leash competing. Cant score points on the leash.

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Jim,
I seem to remember the same as you do about the wording being changed. But I wasn't 100% certain so I had to go by the back of the card.

Hoosier Man 1,
I'm sorry but I disagree with "a dog competing for a position be considered to be trailing". If that was true we wouldn't need the 8 min. rule.

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Registered: Sep 2010
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Here is Paul Frederichs answer from back when he was writing the Advisor.
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quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
They have the option


Patches is correct. The handlers have the option to cut as long as one dog is still at-large.
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Note he said "still at large", no mention of having to be struck in.


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What if the fourth dog is standing at your feet and has the time started for not hunting. It's not at large

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My guess is that if he is not treed or leashed, he is at large.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
My guess is that if he is not treed or leashed, he is at large.

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This is good to know but what do you do if the judge insists you keep your dog on a leash? Say the judge doesnt know this and I recast and he throws a fit? What do you do then? Is this cleared up in the advisor if so what page?

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If it's not written. You'll lose a question on it. Flat out. I knew in pkc you could cut loose like that but didn't really know you could in ukc.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tim MACHA
I agree with Jim on this one. As long as there is a dog out competing, whether opened or not.

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quote:

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Originally posted by jimbob_walker
this question came up in a hunt I was on one night. I had minuses out and stayed out with the cast. 3 dogs left a and b were treed and scored and dog c was out. Judge said no one could cut loose til dog c had opened. The judge was a friend , but I questioned him on it. I told him that didn't seem fair to the dogs on a lead. The next day we both called ukc and we're told you could not cut loose until dog c opened. I believe it was Allen who we had both talked to.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
It was discussed on here shortly after the rule was passed. The treed dog breaks the 8 so dogs A&B have their option to cast or lead. I think your non-hunting judge at the 16 was wrong. I'll see if I can find the thread where it was discussed.

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There is no requirement for a dog to be struck before you can exercise your option to cast, a dog just has to be loose.
If a dog is treed and a dog is loose, you can cast or lead, that is your option. And a treed dog treeing breaks the 8 just like a trailing dog that opens.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
There is no requirement for a dog to be struck before you can exercise your option to cast, a dog just has to be loose.
If a dog is treed and a dog is loose, you can cast or lead, that is your option. And a treed dog treeing breaks the 8 just like a trailing dog that opens.

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Maybe the difference in this particular situation was the dog out was already struck in.

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quote:

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Originally posted by jimbob_walker
I agree with your opinion, bit Allen told me opposite. You have to walk back to where you last heard the dog open, start the 8 with the other dogs on the leash. Said you can't release those dogs til the dog who is out opens or the 8 gets the dog.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Greg Burks
The dog was never struck in so there is no 8....

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quote:

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Originally posted by Greg Burks
The dog was never struck in so there is no 8....

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quote:

---

Originally posted by jimbob_walker
I agree with your opinion, bit Allen told me opposite. You have to walk back to where you last heard the dog open, start the 8 with the other dogs on the leash. Said you can't release those dogs til the dog who is out opens or the 8 gets the dog.

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Because I distinctly remember this conversation.

The rule does read "opening" but I was told officially here on the board that was an oversight and that really they meant competing for strike.

I didn't agree with it because that's not what the words on the card say and we are still dealing with the english language but I abide by it because it was the official interpretation of the rule.

I am not sure but I think it was Allan that gave us that one during that particular discussion. I was arguing that a dog had to be opening/struck in and I was told I was wrong. I hate being wrong so I remember it LOL.

The wording was supposed to get changed but I see it hasn't.

So basically the rule is if a dog is competing for strike you have the option to turn loose.

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