Registered: Aug 2008
Location: ohio
Posts: 330

I would like to see UKC list on the pedigree how many dogs where beat to make a dog make Nt Ch and again to make Gr.Nt.Ch. That way all these champions made at 3 to 12 dog hunts would be exposed. years ago you had to beat hundreds of dogs and run 3 hrs with only 1 nt ch winner and it really meant you had a quality dog to make grand.
In the world of slick hired guns and dinky hunts is why I pay little attention to "all grand " pedigrees and all grand litters . The statistics are indicating manipulation of completion hunts most of the time. Just my opinion

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2010

A year or so ago, maybe longer, I gathered up a years worth of Bloodlines and figured the average number of dogs at a UKC hunt. There was no way for me to know how many were Nitech and how many were Registered dogs , it was figured on the total of both at each hunt. The average across the USA was just under 9 dogs per hunt. I only used regular ole' UKC hunts to figure with.

Also now days if it's a "Performance" dog and makes Grand during a year and doesn't show up on the Top 10 Performance points list, you can about bet its been in several low attendance hunts.

By keeping your Bloodlines, you can research a particular dog and by going through the back hunt result pages. It takes some time but is do-able.

We have a hunt tonight at local club. The weathers hot and may not draw many because of that. However, we plan on having a dog there. Its a local club and we like to support them when we can. If by chance we get a win, We will take it. It kind of a catch 22 situation. Does one not enter and not support local clubs ? Or does one? I would rather have a win at a larger hunt for sure. Plus it means more Performance points. But Local clubs need attendance ( entries ) to survive.

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CHRIS BRINER
ROBINSON, IL

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: AL
Posts: 2097

It is not totally about quantity of hounds hunted against it is the quality of hounds hunted against. Measuring sticks are a good indicator to see which tools our hounds have and what speed they can do what they are good at. JMO and we all love our preferred hounds.

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2010

quote:

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Originally posted by byrd, lance
It is not totally about quantity of hounds hunted against it is the quality of hounds hunted against. Measuring sticks are a good indicator to see which tools our hounds have and what speed they can do what they are good at. JMO and we all love our preferred hounds.

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CHRIS BRINER
ROBINSON, IL

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: ohio
Posts: 330

I agree your point is well taken. there are dogs run locally and they are top hounds . there are all grand litters that are the real deal. I am impressed to see a single man keep his line of dogs for generations.
As a dedicated breeder and supporter of the bluetick hounds try to seek top quality hounds .
one of the best hounds I have seen last couple years was a p.r. dog 10 yrs. old. I would have bred penny to him but he died.It just seems difficult to separate fact from fiction.
Just wanted to stimulate some conversation thank you for your comments.

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

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Originally posted by byrd, lance
It is not totally about quantity of hounds hunted against it is the quality of hounds hunted against. Measuring sticks are a good indicator to see which tools our hounds have and what speed they can do what they are good at. JMO and we all love our preferred hounds.

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: AL
Posts: 2097

I can't believe I typed something that people agree with. Lol this is a monumental day. Ha ha

All seriousness. Thanks guys. It is good to have so many I consider friends because of these hounds we all hunt. I truly believe getting out and meeting many even on this board face to face at nationals and at oaks has given me a huge respect for what each of you are trying to accomplish.

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Lance Byrd
Montevallo, AL
205-283-0477

Team Mad Dog
Mad Dog South

Grnitech Mad Dog All Jazzed Up
(2010 BBOA Zone 6 championship Queen of Hunt and High scoring dog, 2010 Alabama State BBOA Championship Queen of Hunt and High scoring dog, 2010 South Carolina State BBOA Championship Queen of Hunt, Qualified 2011 WI governors cup)

Grnitech Grch Grwch Mad Dog Psyco Talk to em Toby (sire and dam both quad grands, Finished to nitech and BBCHA, BBOA high scoring blue male 2011 Autumn Oaks, 2012 and 2013 Bluetick Days King of Water, 2014 BBOA youth nationals King of Water and Champion male, 2014 Alabama Hall of fame hunt King of Water, 2014 Bluetick Days Blue Hunt 2nd runner up, 3 nite ch wins over 1000 points) owned with Robbie & Lisa Brooks

CH PR Mad Dog Big Casino (2013 Illinois BBOA King of hunt, high scoring dog, First place registered Friday and Saturday night, 2016 Zone 1 Blue frost memorial King of Show opposite sex, BMOS friday and Saturday, 2017 Reunion Ch male Thursday and Friday, 2017 AL State Championship King of show)

Other wins: 2009 Zone 6 Championship Queen of Hunt, 2009 Zone 6 Championship Grch male friday and saturday. 2009 Zone 6 Championship Grnitech Friday, 2012 Zone 6 Championship King of Show and hunt cast winner. 2013 Zone 6 championship champion female.

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location:
Posts: 288

This is a debate I think is a joke! The people who bitch about dogs now days only winning in 3-12 dog hunts because they use to have to win with 40-50 dogs are the reason there's not more dogs at hunts!!! Why ain't there more dogs now days?

Is it our fault there's not more dogs? Is it our dogs fault? Or is it because so many people were screwed so bad the sport has died out? If so who's to blame for that?

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1775

Why don't more blue dog owners seek out the highest level of competition and enter ole blue up? The elimination style hunts offer this level of competition, but blue dogs entered in those type hunts are as scarce as hens teeth. I'm sure there is a reason for this lack of participation, but I sure don't pretend to understand why.

At the end of the day it is all relative, and if an individual is happy with what they see when they look in the mirror, that is what makes the big wheel turn round and round.

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Home of:
A couple blue haired potlickers

Gone but not forgotten:
Nt Ch Fanny's Midnite Blue Annie - aka Sodie Pop R.I.P. - I will miss you old girl

Nt Ch Becky’s Midnite Blue Hank - R.I.P. Old Boy, thank you for the memories

Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

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Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1513

When I look back at THE DAY when I was a fair amount younger the hunts meant more to me then they do now. I still want one that can compete if I desire to do that but the big IF comes into play more than it used to. It is all a matter of cycles. As the UKC hunts began to follow the down turn of Coon Hunters in general the hunt attendance naturally became smaller. Lot of quality hounds out there that don't get taken to town anymore. Shoot when I was a kid I would take any old hound to a hunt now it has to be a hound I know can win when I do want to go.

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: ohio
Posts: 330

Hey Ron,
I like your style
The avg hunt here in the 80s was 70 dogs . And you could hunt anywhere. Our sport has declined steadily ever since.
I enjoy the sport and the friendship and my hounds are family.
I even enjoy debates and the occasional personal attack . We all get to breed them our buy them the way like like. If a hound suits the master that's all that counts.
I suggested a dogs number of dogs it had beat be known just like the number of pups produced. I did not think that would offend. I would use it in my breeding program along with other factors such as was it cheated through the hunts or perhaps is it automatic strike or light broke.

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Registered: Dec 2009
Location: osage city KS
Posts: 256

First & foremost I choose to feed my ole pot licker's & not trying to start any trouble but I don't care if anyone likes my hound. I'm the one who chooses to feed him/her so I'm the one who has to be happy with that hound. I chose to try & finish the dog I'm hunting now in what I call the bigger hunts. For instance the Reunion, Blue tick days,RQE & Sectional, s. I fill I've did rather well with this particular hound he's just alil over 2 years old & I need one more win to finish him to a grand night & one more pass for his HTX title. Is he perfect absolutely NOT but I kind of like him most nights. Lol. I'm just the common guy & kinda fly under the radar. John you sure got my respect for you as a breeder & your fine hounds. Good luck to all in how ever you as the owner choose tohunt. Rather it be a local hunt or the major hunts.
Take Care.....Jerrold Parker

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KEEP THEM BLUE & TRUE Dual Grand HomeBrew Blue Cindy Lou HTX
2013 UKC TOP 100
2013 zone 1 overall coondog of the year
2014 UKC TOP 100
Ch GrNtCh HomeBrew Blue Bo Diddly
2015 WORLD CHAMPION BLUETICK
Gone but not forgotten
Dual Grand Pine Hill Bonnie

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

Cabins, I really don't think you offended anyone with this post...definitely not me. I agree, the more truthful or reliable info you have regarding a dog you are interested in the better. I think that most guys point here is that there are a lot of other factors to be considered.
Some guys are interested the most in tree style, or what kind of nose power the dog has. Personally, I like the one that goes off and trees a coon when the other three blasted out on a deer...he don't have to be flashy, but at least that dog has the ability to be broke off junk. I have seen and owned a few that would have took a lot more work than I was willing to put forth.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: WV
Posts: 821

with todays coon hunting world is "everyone likes a winner." That was a phrase that I heard Mr. Dean use years ago and it's true to a tee! We all get caught up in the numbers game, including myself, and we forget what really matters. For instance; if you have a really nice female and want to get some pups from her, you would probably look for the best stud available that you could afford. That being said, that's where the dollar signs come in. Should you breed to a Grand Nite Ch. or ole Blue up some hollow that is a good coon dog??? If you want to get rid of the pups easily, you'd probably be smart to breed to the Gr. Nt. Ch. If I want to just get a litter of pups and take a chance of hanging on to them for a while, then ole Blue might be the answer. Which one's will be the best, your guess is as good as mine. Like said before, years ago, a Grand Nite Ch. meant something, now days, not so much. I have hunted with some outstanding titled dogs and I have hunted with some sorry ones, know the difference! I have seen some things go in the the hunts, not just the small ones but the big ones, that will make you sick to your stomach. That alone will make a person not attend. I know this will probably offend some people but the integrety is not there like it was in years past. Before I get bashed for saying this, I have been in many, many hunts from the World on down to the 6 dog hunts. Please, hunt with a dog or get refferances from people you can trust before breeding a female or buying a pup and then you're still taking a chance. This is a great post and has raised some good opinions. Have a great day.

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: ohio
Posts: 330

I am pleased that we had a discussion concerning improving our hounds. Your comments and opinions are appreciated.
When I first started breeding hounds I developed a strategy and it was very simple. NEVER kid myself about my dogs ability , recognize its faults and do not modify its behavior to suit the hunts. I do not believe in cheating a dog as it does not transfer anything good to the breeding pen.
Seems that nowadays dogs are being bred or modified to win hunts by automatic strikes , blast out of the country, light broke and so on. The question is who are they all trying to beat? More hunts are won with slick treeing dogs that are circled.
The dog they are trying to beat is a quick honest strike dog that opens freely on track has awesome track speed and is accurate stay put tree dog. If it has a loud mouth and trees coon close rather it be a cold track or lay up that is a balanced dog in my book.
The difference between a really good hound and a great hound is as thin as a razor blade. But when you try to cross that line it seems as wide as the Ohio river!

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

seems to me if i remember back in time to the hunts when you speak about when there was a lot more dogs, 3 hour hunts and all that. what i remember was worse dogs than i see at the hunts today. and worse than that many of the handlers was meaner and more depressing than the dogs. i hate to sound so negative but here is some more. i also feel many dogs that go to the big hunts out of town. there is for some of them a good reason they are took out of town to be titled. to boot is it harder to title one at the big hunts really? i never felt it was, maybe even easier not that it matters anyway.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3468

Consider the point total when a dog wins a cast. If you won three hunts and made your dog a Nt Ch with 25+ in all three hunts, you probably wouldn't have won at a hunt with 50 dogs. If you hunt in three hunts with 7 dogs and score 800+ in all three hunts, you probably could have won a bigger hunt. Point totals mean a lot. You're only hunting against 3 dogs even at an 80 dog hunt.

Last edited by shadinc on 06-16-2015 at 03:37 PM

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: DEEP FORK VALLEY, OKLAHOMA
Posts: 1815

quote:

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Originally posted by cabins
IMore hunts are won with slick treeing dogs that are circled.
The dog they are trying to beat is a quick honest strike dog that opens freely on track has awesome track speed and is accurate stay put tree dog.

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: ohio
Posts: 330

Thanks for the comments and good luck to you all!

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