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rthompson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

babbling

There are alot on differrent views on this. just thought id tell about my latest dealing with this. 3 dog cast line up and cast mine and another open imediatly a bark or two the third handler makes a comment about babbling. minute is up third dog opens and is struck. it opens about ten more times then the 8 is on 5 minutes gone dogs near rd. handler 3 wants to call time the road is 3/4 mile from were dog last opened. so i insist we minus dog 3 for babbling and is. his arguement was the 8 wasnt up! Mine was that if a dog opens and doesnt show the track its a babble. but ofcourse his dog doesnt babble! The rules are the rules but what would ya'll have done? I believe it was the right call.

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Old Post 01-01-2015 03:29 AM
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John Cowan
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: RR#1 Brigden Canada ,Ontario
Posts: 56

babbling

minus the dog

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Old Post 01-01-2015 03:42 AM
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ssgied
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: tn
Posts: 667

Do I understand correctly, you accepted his strike call, started the eight, and five minutes in you minus him for a babble?

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john Duemmer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

The Dog should not have been minused for babbling, if the 8 catches him he is minused or if the dog quits and comes in to the cast he is minused, but otherwise they can quit tracks all night without being minused.

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Old Post 01-01-2015 03:49 AM
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CHEWBACH
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

minus

what the heck that's where guys make up rules as they go. you definately cant wait 5 min and than minus for babbling. well I guess you can! LOL

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Old Post 01-01-2015 04:03 AM
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deepsouthkennels86
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: east/Tennessee
Posts: 479

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
The Dog should not have been minused for babbling, if the 8 catches him he is minused or if the dog quits and comes in to the cast he is minused, but otherwise they can quit tracks all night without being minused.


that's how I would do it

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Old Post 01-01-2015 08:25 AM
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SEKY Coonhunter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Corbin, KY
Posts: 771

Absolutley cannot minus the dog for babbling. He was struck on or before the 3rd bark and the rules say when that happens you run the 8 until dog opens again. Who was judging???? You can't put the 8 on someone's dog, then back up and say that same dog was babbling. Other than the fact that dogs barked a few times while leaving, what evidence do you have to determine he babbled vs being tight on track?

On the outside looking in, it appears that possibly the handler struck in was concerned about getting strike minus, so he wanted interference on the road 3/4 mile deep.

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Old Post 01-01-2015 12:36 PM
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rthompson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

No the rules say the dog must show the track. the eight might never got the dog because of time out. ind i dont care who you are if a dog opens like its hot and shuts up for even 4-500 yrds im gonna call babbleeven if the eight didnt get him and no way im lettn 3/4 of a mile slide. read the rules how does a dog show a track without opening?

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Old Post 01-01-2015 01:03 PM
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rthompson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

Babbling is to be minused if dog opens three times after the minute and is not struck OR if dog opens were no track is evident. -ukc
and its EVIDENT there was no track. and to anser who was judging it was a non hunting judge and when i showed the rule on the card the dog was minused

Last edited by rthompson on 01-01-2015 at 01:18 PM

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Old Post 01-01-2015 01:13 PM
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JmillerFL
Banned

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 327

A lot of smart dogs will open up on a hot running coon and shut up and push the coon. About the only time I bring up babbling is when one never shuts up. Who are we as humans to say there isn't a track. When was the last time you guys smelt a coon?

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Old Post 01-01-2015 01:16 PM
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rthompson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
The Dog should not have been minused for babbling, if the 8 catches him he is minused or if the dog quits and comes in to the cast he is minused, but otherwise they can quit tracks all night without being minused.
thats not the rule says the dog has to show the track

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Old Post 01-01-2015 01:23 PM
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rthompson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

Re: minus

quote:
Originally posted by CHEWBACH
what the heck that's where guys make up rules as they go. you definately cant wait 5 min and than minus for babbling. well I guess you can! LOL
nobody made up this rule its in the book there is no time limit on the babble

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Old Post 01-01-2015 01:26 PM
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GA DAWG
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

My goodness. The no time limit dont mean that. Crap. It means. You can get em anytime for babbling. You have to do it then though. Not after the fact like 5 min into the 8. Oh me!!!

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Old Post 01-01-2015 01:35 PM
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rthompson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

Just because the eight is on doesnt mean the dog didnt babble the eight has to be applied if the dog would have picked the track up opened then no minus but the dog didnt even try. now i know what the tog did it did it again two dumps later the handler ever comented on the way the dogs mouth sounded but the dog moved 3/4 of a mile so it did not show a track it just ran down the creek. the reason the dog was minused at five minutes is because the handler wanted to call time out to deleate the strike.

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Old Post 01-01-2015 01:54 PM
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RLenhart
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: PA.
Posts: 1738

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JmillerFL
A lot of smart dogs will open up on a hot running coon and shut up and push the coon. About the only time I bring up babbling is when one never shuts up. Who are we as humans to say there isn't a track. When was the last time you guys smelt a coon? [/QUOTE
X2

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Old Post 01-01-2015 02:08 PM
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JmillerFL
Banned

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 327

Did said dog win the hunt?

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Old Post 01-01-2015 02:08 PM
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CHEWBACH
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

Re: Re: minus

quote:
Originally posted by rthompson
nobody made up this rule its in the book there is no time limit on the babble
O REALLY! you won cast I would say. jmo

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Old Post 01-01-2015 02:13 PM
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john Duemmer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

quote:
Originally posted by rthompson
Just because the eight is on doesnt mean the dog didnt babble the eight has to be applied if the dog would have picked the track up opened then no minus but the dog didnt even try. now i know what the tog did it did it again two dumps later the handler ever comented on the way the dogs mouth sounded but the dog moved 3/4 of a mile so it did not show a track it just ran down the creek. the reason the dog was minused at five minutes is because the handler wanted to call time out to deleate the strike.


You seem to be confused about what babbling is....Babbling is when a dog opens and no track is evident (your dog off the leash).
What you describe is a dog that quit its track and moved deep...(thats not babbling)
Having said that, minusing a dog for babbling is a subjective call made by the judge and in this case the handler should have questioned the call and asked for a vote, if the cast was uniformed enough about the rule to back the call then a ? to the MOHs. should overturn the call.
We all hate that a dog gets away with quitting a track, but unless the dog is caught by the 8 or comes in to the cast there is no rule that allows a judge to minus the dog.
I would add that the rule about carrying the track out is a $kc rule, UKC leaves it up to the judge but after opening 10 times, the strike call being accepted and the 8 applied a dog will either break the 8 or be minused, this is not the time to apply rule 4c.

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Last edited by john Duemmer on 01-01-2015 at 02:41 PM

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rthompson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

Im reminding u there was a non hunting judge

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Old Post 01-01-2015 02:35 PM
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rthompson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

The deffinition of babbling is on page 61 look it up opening were no track is evident the dog never even treed there was no coon. and ive been involved in calls like this before they were questioned and stuck. rule 4b &4c are two different things and if the dog is determined to be babbling then its minus strike it was determined to be babblind.

Last edited by rthompson on 01-01-2015 at 02:50 PM

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Old Post 01-01-2015 02:43 PM
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JmillerFL
Banned

Registered: Oct 2013
Location:
Posts: 327

quote:
Originally posted by rthompson
Im reminding u there was a non hunting judge
just because it's a non hunting judge doesn't mean you can't question the call and take it back to the MOH or HD

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Old Post 01-01-2015 02:45 PM
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john Duemmer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

quote:
Originally posted by rthompson
The deffinition of babbling is on page 61 look it up opening were no track is evident the dog never even treed there was no coon. and ive been involved in calls like this before they were questioned and stuck.


Think about a situation where a dog quits a track and travels a long distance to cover another dog,is that babbling? Just because they shut up and cover some ground doesnt mean the dog babbled. That is why we have the 8 minute rule and as long as they open again within the 8 they get a pass no matter where they are or how they got there.

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Old Post 01-01-2015 02:57 PM
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john Duemmer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

It sounds like in this case the dog was about to get lucky and get saved by a timeout, and someone wanted to get the dog minused.

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rthompson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: sw mo
Posts: 971

I would minus that in a heart beat. it would be questioned. what if dog opens right in front of you after the minute another opens deep first dog shuts up and covers other dogs track..... minus that sucker too! If the dog opens were no track is evident it is a babble how do you tell if one is evident all of these situations describe a babbli.g me too dog. imo. I want an honest dog thats just me.

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Old Post 01-01-2015 03:08 PM
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CHEWBACH
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

quote:
Originally posted by rthompson
Im reminding u there was a non hunting judge
there is a timely manner to apply the rules! hunting judge or non hunting judge. not saying he or the hole cast should not have been minused for babbling! but if the club didn't advertise that as hunting judges or appoint a special judge. than it dosent matter. guessing this was a ukc or ?

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