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southernthunder
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4886

Breeding question?

would you rather breed your prize female to a coondog without major faults that doesnt have an all grand pedigree or to a dog that has a major scratching offense fault that has an all grand pedigree?

i have read some posts where guys were looking for all grand pedigrees instead of looking for certain traits in a dog is the reason im asking.

is it better to breed for how a set of papers look than to breed for good traits?

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05-23-2014 12:43 PM

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Darren Hollis
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Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Winfield, ALABAMA
Posts: 2937

BREEDING

COONDOG X COONDOG is the way I go!!!
Darren

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05-23-2014 01:11 PM

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southernthunder
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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4886

im hoping that some of our breeders will give their thoughts on this and that the new up coming younger generation will have better outlook on doing the right thing by following a role model in the right direction.

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05-23-2014 01:12 PM

pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2078

traits

titiles are nice but a poor choice in breeding.

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05-23-2014 01:16 PM

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Vic Stoll
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1775

Re: Breeding question?

quote:
Originally posted by southernthunder
a dog that has a major scratching offense fault

Too wide of a brush for painting.

What one considers a major fault, another does not.

Example: Remember the breed standard thread & the discussion regarding color?

The worst fault I need to worry about with my cull potlickers is the sorry owner that doesn't hunt them more.

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05-23-2014 01:22 PM

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southernthunder
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4886

Re: Re: Breeding question?

quote:
Originally posted by Vic Stoll
Too wide of a brush for painting.

What one considers a major fault, another does not.

Example: Remember the breed standard thread & the discussion regarding color?

The worst fault I need to worry about with my cull potlickers is the sorry owner that doesn't hunt them more.

lol yes I remember and understand what your saying. what i'm talking about is ill mannered, silent mouthed kind of faults lol. I don't think these kind are thought of as good traits.

Last edited by southernthunder on 05-23-2014 at 02:14 PM

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05-23-2014 01:57 PM

southernthunder
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4886

Re: BREEDING

quote:
Originally posted by Darren Hollis
COONDOG X COONDOG is the way I go!!!
Darren

you bet!

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05-23-2014 01:58 PM

southernthunder
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4886

Re: traits

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
titiles are nice but a poor choice in breeding.

I agree with you Pam

and you can have both

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05-23-2014 01:59 PM

Vic Stoll
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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1775

Re: Re: Re: Breeding question?

quote:
Originally posted by southernthunder
lol yes I remember and understand what your saying. what i'm talking about is ill mannered, silent mouthed kind of faults lol. I don't think these kind are thought of as good traits.

Ill mannered? I see/read a lot of descriptions of a dog not being ill, but will not be run off either. A gentleman, but not a coward type. Some would consider these ill mannered, others desire the trait.

Silent? Lots of folk like em tight on the ground, will breed for the trait, & will label them as honest strike dogs.

I just don't think a line can be drawn in the sand or a common label can be slapped on to something when the human factors of preference & interpretation are present.

I'd say the up & comers need to be made aware of all the different traits, mannerisms, etc., but encouraged to follow their own preferences regarding those traits, not force fed someone else's beliefs & preferences.

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05-23-2014 03:27 PM

southernthunder
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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4886

Re: Re: Re: Re: Breeding question?

quote:
Originally posted by Vic Stoll
Ill mannered? I see/read a lot of descriptions of a dog not being ill, but will not be run off either. A gentleman, but not a coward type. Some would consider these ill mannered, others desire the trait.

Silent? Lots of folk like em tight on the ground, will breed for the trait, & will label them as honest strike dogs.

I just don't think a line can be drawn in the sand or a common label can be slapped on to something when the human factors of preference & interpretation are present.

I'd say the up & comers need to be made aware of all the different traits, mannerisms, etc., but encouraged to follow their own preferences regarding those traits, not force fed someone else's beliefs & preferences.

good explanation Vic!

Last edited by southernthunder on 05-23-2014 at 05:12 PM

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05-23-2014 03:54 PM

glynnsdawgs63
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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Fort Valley, GA
Posts: 1194

Breed the kind of dogs you like to hunt.Titles don't mean squat to me.Its all about Ability,Brains then conformation

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J. Lovell
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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Spiro, Oklahoma
Posts: 356

Breeding(My 2 cents)

Eddie I have had blueticks ever since I was able to follow my grandpa around in the woods. I probobably started at about 8 and I'm 44 now. That's about 36 years of owning and hunting blueticks. I primarily like to hunt females, so I have spent a lot of time traveling and checking out the male dogs that I have bred to. I've hunted with Larry Hamlins Highball dog, Tommy Nixon's Wolf Creek Geronimo, Jim Smallings Clear River Diamond Jim I and II, Jimmy Don Presley's Screwy Lewey, Austin Cox's Pop-A-Top, Daniel Smith's Blastin Butch, Mike Hurts Mose, Curtis Whitekiller's AJ and Doc and several of Lonnie Uchtman's studs. I would love to have had the opportunity to go with Lonnie's Hawk dog. I've hunted with Gary and Doyle Uchtman's dogs, Jim Combs Quick Trip, Troy Sheffield's Zeb, Bocephus when Jody Goodson owned him, Wesley Martin's Bodacious, and Lee Smith's Bullet dogs. If a male did not impress me in the woods I sure enough wouldn't breed one of my females to it. I have hunted with Gr. Nt. Littermates and thought I was breeding to the better dog and found out a few years later that the slick treer through the best pups. I have bought pups from several different people over the years. I saw on another thread where you and Matt Turner are planning some crosses. Matt is very knowledgeable and knows his stuff. I bought a pair of pups one time from Matt several years back out of Jet 5. I made the female a Nt. Ch. She went on to become dual grand. I really liked her. Matt tries to breed to what is really reproducing and he would be a good man to partner with. I use to own a few dogs that made the ukc top reproducers list-- Davis's White River Sugar, Washburn Valley Blue Drip and Lovell's Smokey River Blue Snap. I was asked to put an article in the bluetick issue of Coonhound Bloodlines on the Snap female. Don't take any of this thread as me bragging, because that is not my intention. Just letting people that are reading know some things about me. My 2 cents worth is "If at all possible go hunting with the dog before you breed to it." I've found that a lot of what you read on these message boards is just propaganda meant to lure people in.

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Nt. Ch. Lovell's Katy Bar the Door (Gr. Nt. Ch. Nixon's Wolf Creek Geronimo)
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Nt. Ch. Lovell's Coon Catchin' Katie (Nt. Ch. Bowden's Wolf Creek Smokey)
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Gr. Nt. Stewart's Natural Okie Reb (Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Natural Smokey River Rebel)
Nt. Ch. Coon Catchin' Jim (Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Clear River Diamond Jim)

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05-23-2014 06:39 PM

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BIG$BLUES
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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1454

I would say you have seen lots of top dogs that lots of people think high of Jeff with the list you have there and not trying to change the subject at all but I am courious in your mind out of all those hounds you listed which one do you think performed the best in your opinion

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05-23-2014 06:53 PM

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J. Lovell
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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Spiro, Oklahoma
Posts: 356

It's to hard for me to pick out just one. I bred females or bought pups out of several of them.

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05-23-2014 08:06 PM

southernthunder
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4886

Re: Breeding(My 2 cents)

quote:
Originally posted by J. Lovell
Eddie I have had blueticks ever since I was able to follow my grandpa around in the woods. I probobably started at about 8 and I'm 44 now. That's about 36 years of owning and hunting blueticks. I primarily like to hunt females, so I have spent a lot of time traveling and checking out the male dogs that I have bred to. I've hunted with Larry Hamlins Highball dog, Tommy Nixon's Wolf Creek Geronimo, Jim Smallings Clear River Diamond Jim I and II, Jimmy Don Presley's Screwy Lewey, Austin Cox's Pop-A-Top, Daniel Smith's Blastin Butch, Mike Hurts Mose, Curtis Whitekiller's AJ and Doc and several of Lonnie Uchtman's studs. I would love to have had the opportunity to go with Lonnie's Hawk dog. I've hunted with Gary and Doyle Uchtman's dogs, Jim Combs Quick Trip, Troy Sheffield's Zeb, Bocephus when Jody Goodson owned him, Wesley Martin's Bodacious, and Lee Smith's Bullet dogs. If a male did not impress me in the woods I sure enough wouldn't breed one of my females to it. I have hunted with Gr. Nt. Littermates and thought I was breeding to the better dog and found out a few years later that the slick treer through the best pups. I have bought pups from several different people over the years. I saw on another thread where you and Matt Turner are planning some crosses. Matt is very knowledgeable and knows his stuff. I bought a pair of pups one time from Matt several years back out of Jet 5. I made the female a Nt. Ch. She went on to become dual grand. I really liked her. Matt tries to breed to what is really reproducing and he would be a good man to partner with. I use to own a few dogs that made the ukc top reproducers list-- Davis's White River Sugar, Washburn Valley Blue Drip and Lovell's Smokey River Blue Snap. I was asked to put an article in the bluetick issue of Coonhound Bloodlines on the Snap female. Don't take any of this thread as me bragging, because that is not my intention. Just letting people that are reading know some things about me. My 2 cents worth is "If at all possible go hunting with the dog before you breed to it." I've found that a lot of what you read on these message boards is just propaganda meant to lure people in.

I agree 100% hunt with them! I also believe that you should hunt with their offspring cause we are not breeding to them for what they are but what they produce. I figure you will agree with that too. you been at the blueticks for way more years than I have that's for sure, old timer! lol, but we started hunting at the same age 2 years apart. I hunted black and tans cause my family had always hunted them.

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05-23-2014 08:12 PM

BIG$BLUES
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Location: Oklahoma
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by J. Lovell
It's to hard for me to pick out just one. I bred females or bought pups out of several of them. [/
There is a couple on that list I would like to have a pup out of I would like to hunt with some of these I am hearing about out of Bocepus the way it sounds he is doing his part producing the right kind

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05-23-2014 08:29 PM

LongCreek
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Registered: Nov 2013
Location: Caney Oklahoma
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Jeff

How's that young female outa Troys Zeb dog that u raised doing?? And can she be bought ?? And Travis Bo is producing some nice young hounds outa whatever is bred to him. They open just right on the ground not real tight and not rattle headed.

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ratpack
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Hmmmmm.......oh how opinions vary!!!

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05-23-2014 11:35 PM

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J. Lovell
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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Spiro, Oklahoma
Posts: 356

I wouldn't part with this female out of Zeb and Dot. I really like her. I've got another batch on the way

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05-23-2014 11:42 PM

LongCreek
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Registered: Nov 2013
Location: Caney Oklahoma
Posts: 13

I agree with you on that Brent. I remember now that Adam brought here down her for u and u bred her to Zeb again Jeff Ill be in touch with u.

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05-24-2014 12:05 AM

BIG$BLUES
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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1454

Re: Jeff

quote:
Originally posted by LongCreek
How's that young female outa Troys Zeb dog that u raised doing?? And can she be bought ?? And Travis Bo is producing some nice young hounds outa whatever is bred to him. They open just right on the ground not real tight and not rattle headed.

That's what I hear Jerry

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05-24-2014 09:23 PM

wakenda creek b
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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Carrollton,Missouri
Posts: 947

I don't breed for the all grand but if I had 2 dogs in mind and both were what I was looking for in a stud dog I would breed to the all grand on a tie breaker. Lets talk about the mean ones. I WILL not breed to anything that I think has an ill hair on him. Ive got my opinion on the different bloodlines of the blue dogs that I hold against some when I pick out a male. Im not kennel blind I just know what I like and don't like. Ive been on both sides of the mean dog. I have a dog that's real nice out pleasure hunting but you take him to a comp hunt and he is a big wimp once he realizes hes hunting with strange dogs. I had a real nice young dog that I had high hopes for but I put him in a comp hunt too early. I drew out with the wrong type of dog and he was ruined. He turned mean on tree and he was good at it. I hunt females and I always have a list of potential boyfriends for them that I keep an eye on. I don't raise very many pups(1 litter every 1-2 years). There are enough nice stud dogs around that you can afford to be picky.

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05-24-2014 10:34 PM

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J. Lovell
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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Spiro, Oklahoma
Posts: 356

I agree

Brian it sounds like you and I are on the same page.

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05-24-2014 10:42 PM

wakenda creek b
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Location: Carrollton,Missouri
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Well Mr. Lovell it works for me. I think more mean dogs are made then produced. Theres early signs in most of the mean dogs that get over looked when there younger but if nipped in the bud quick and with no mercy I think they could have been different. The young dog I had trouble with was just to immature to know how to handle a rough dog and all he knew to do was stay at the tree come hell or high water. When I first started I wanted a chest on the wood toe nails in the wood type tree dog now I want a dog that know how to back up and avoid the situation. Its not if you draw out with a mean dog but when.

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05-25-2014 07:20 PM

Shawnee Creek B
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I look for a reproducer from a line of reproducers. A stud that has proven to produce dual grands and win in tough competition. The hounds that tree more coon will be the preferred trait . The talked up hounds that haven't produced will have no chance to produce pups on my good gyp, if I had one.

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05-26-2014 05:11 AM