Registered: May 2010
Location:
Posts: 70

Can the judge minus a dog for babbling or does it require a cast vote. What's the best approach when a dog babbles all night and keeps getting struck under the minute and doesn't shut up and you know it's not an honest strike?
This seems to be happening more and more all the time.

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

Babbling is a judges decision, no vote required. A vote can be called for by any cast member after the judge makes his call. Or, if the judge fails to make the call, any cast member can ask for a vote on minusing the dog for babbling.

Many judges are reluctant to make this call because they know it will bring protest, denial and almost always results in some sort of ruckus. If the judge neglects to make the proper call, ask for a cast vote to minus the dog. You likely won't win but you will at least put the offending handler on notice that you aren't just gonna stand there and take it. Ask for a cast vote to minus every time he strikes that dog babbling. That is how I would handle it.

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

This can be a tough one...a dog that is just flat slap giving mouth and getting struck and getting away with it should certainly be minused, but I have seen a very cold nosed dog get scratched that should not have been. The handler stated before the dogs were unsnapped that when she smells a coon she opens. The cast was hunted on a big poultry farm, every 1/4 mile there was a pile of dead birds in the woods and dogs were dumped on them for every turn out. Every time she was unsnapped he struck her, every dog ran the track and coon was seen. She was tough and instead of being scratched she should/would have won the cast. Some people will do anything to eliminate the competition.

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

It is a tough call.I had in the past a dog that would open quicker in company.On nite hunts it appeared she was babbling.
On one the Judge had me turn loose first.No Bark. Soon as others were cut she struck. Others opened within seconds too.
Next dump judge had me cut loose first again .No bark.Soon as others cut loose she opened.At this point the judge is literally jumping up and down accusing my dog of dog tracking. I calmly turned and said,Judge, if that is what she is doing,why are both the other dogs now opening? Never said another word about it the rest of the hunt.

I currently am hunting a female that opens as soon as she smells coon,has a really good nose, can wind them ,and is mouthy.What a combination to make her look to be a babbler.

I have started to put her with some other dogs and in some club hunts to test her against the other dogs.I am already getting the she is babbling from guys.
Here is the thing .She never quits working the track ,within 30 to 150 yards the other dogs are usually opening and they end up treed together.If they don't open with her they stick with her on the track until they do open.She is going to be tough to get a strike on in hunts.
And yes I have turned her loose WITH other dogs when she never said a word when first cut loose.

Point is,Just because a dog opens quickly and you are having a time getting a strike on them it does not mean they are babblers.

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Last edited by Pat Bizich on 05-22-2014 at 04:15 PM

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

No one should ever make a babbling call, whether they are a judge or a cast member, if they aren't sure in their mind what the dog is doing. I say " sure in their mind" because it is not possible to prove or disprove babbling, there for, all you can do is be sure in your mind what you are hearing.
With that said, I think most who have followed hounds for some years can tell the difference between a dog that is barking with a track and a dog that is barking at no track. Your dog, my dog, a dog I have never seen before, I can tell.
If you are sure in your mind that the dog has been struck on the card where there is no track, then make the call. Don't matter if you are the judge or not, make the call.

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Registered: Jan 2012
Location: Goshen,Ohio
Posts: 2679

Problem is a lot times there running a track just ant a coon.Usually running the other dogs or trash.9 times outta 10 if the cast wants to lead the dogs across a big feild all the way to the woods there's a reason way.BURNS ME UP!They know good and well there dog will strike right off the chain Everytime and don't want anybody to see it.Shame people waste time titling out counterfeit dogs.Jmo

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Purdy Mo
Posts: 75

You mentioned minute the minute rule does not have anything to do with babbling when a dog is determined to be babbling it is to minused to many people think that the minute rule a nd the babbling rule go together they don't over half the hunters think if they strike after the minute they can't be minused. not true the rule says when dog is struck in and it is determined to be babbling it is to be minuses says nothing in that rule of minute

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

quote:

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Originally posted by Aaron R Gamble
You mentioned minute the minute rule does not have anything to do with babbling when a dog is determined to be babbling it is to minused to many people think that the minute rule a nd the babbling rule go together they don't over half the hunters think if they strike after the minute they can't be minused. not true the rule says when dog is struck in and it is determined to be babbling it is to be minuses says nothing in that rule of minute

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: south carolina
Posts: 251

Would be hard to prove if the dog finishes a track with a coon up the tree....I think that's why a lot of judges don't in force it as much as it should be.just my $00.2

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 312

I had a real quick opening dog for years. I always got acused of babbling. I have even had judges turn dogs loose 400 yards from the woods. The dog never said a word until inside the woods. Heck I even turned loose in an old parking lot once. Same outcome never been minused. Many times we would be released on feed buckets or bait piles. He smelled a coon he opened. Hunting him in the wild like he was trained you never would have thought he was a babbler. I am quick to side on the dog and not label them as a babbler. If it is that much of a concern than the next drop I would go to, should have a distance for the dogs to travel before they hit the woods. I recomend a nice hay field so you can see what they are doing.

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Purdy Mo
Posts: 75

yes I meant if there struck in the minute is only there so you don't have to make a strike call but it has nothing to do when a dog is determined to be struck on babbling to many people think the min rule and babbling rule go together

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

This post is a perfect example of how NOT TO judge babbling.
I have seen coons walking in parking lots, hay fields and all manner of places they shouldn't be. So the idea that these places can separate a babbler from an honest strike is bogus.
I'll say this one more time then I'll shut up and let you guys have this one. Babbling can only be judged by an experienced listener. It cannot fairly be judged any other way. And if the person listening to that hound is not competent and honest, it cannot be fairly judged at all.

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: mn
Posts: 513

some dogs can just smell coon from tailgate to tree so what

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2353

Mine opens when he gets 75 yards from me, and opens till he trees. By himself, with company, dont matter. So I am going to strike him when he opens. IDK what he is opening on, but I am also not gonna wait till something opens with him to strike him.

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