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papa
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 414

gsrmin on a cast

I was in my first comp hunt the other night in years alot has changed for.one when I hunted before trackers were used only after rhe hunt was over now its used during the hunt ok I dont own a garmin but they did offer me a collar so I put it on him ok . .the whole time they used it to stay up with the dogs well at one point mine was way to the left others way to the right well they stayed wirh their two . I treed mine once withour a locate an knew he would not stay idk why I even did it but I did. He got quiet. They looked at the screen said hes moving. So I said minus him. Now we used these on hog dogs an they not moving they bayed . Now. You look at screen coondog is not moving hes treed right? Put it down a soon as he barks tree him .its a veido game now .last tree .hunt almost over. Finally time ran out start looking for dogs mine was over a mile away treed ? Knows couldent hear him had no control to keep track of him
.I dont think it should be allowed opens the door for more cheating than there ever was before js

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05-19-2014 05:09 PM

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Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2353

Re: gsrmin on a cast

quote:
Originally posted by papa
I was in my first comp hunt the other night in years alot has changed for.one when I hunted before trackers were used only after rhe hunt was over now its used during the hunt ok I dont own a garmin but they did offer me a collar so I put it on him ok . .the whole time they used it to stay up with the dogs well at one point mine was way to the left others way to the right well they stayed wirh their two . I treed mine once withour a locate an knew he would not stay idk why I even did it but I did. He got quiet. They looked at the screen said hes moving. So I said minus him. Now we used these on hog dogs an they not moving they bayed . Now. You look at screen coondog is not moving hes treed right? Put it down a soon as he barks tree him .its a veido game now .last tree .hunt almost over. Finally time ran out start looking for dogs mine was over a mile away treed ? Knows couldent hear him had no control to keep track of him
.I dont think it should be allowed opens the door for more cheating than there ever was before js

Sounds to me like they are more likely to prevent cheating than encourage it.

You stay with the dog/dogs that are keeping the strike open, otherwise you split the distance if they are apart. You cant tree the dog unless the judge hears it, and if your dog leaves a tree, it gets minused.

Guess I am not seeing what the issue is

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05-19-2014 06:17 PM

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Rocketman55
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

The biggest concern I have with this whole issue is that you allowed them to minus your dog on the tree by looking at the garmin which indicated the dog was moving. This is a violation of the Garmin rules which states a Garmin cannot be used in the scoring of a dog. It sounds like these guys used the garmin to justify your dog was moving and then suggested to you that the dog be minused.

You should have demanded that the dog NOT be minused until either the two minute rule got him OR your dog barked somewhere off the tree and you were able to tell the dog had moved.

However having said that It sounds like you knew the dog wasn't treed so you were comfortable with your dog being minused.

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05-19-2014 06:51 PM

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papa
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 414

But youl looking a a screen . The new ones shock to .it will stop one thing create anothor .not everybody has 800 dollars to buy one . So right off you at a a disadvanyage . The only way this can be fair is the club house. Supply you one if you dont have it csuse they on top of dog looking at dogs treed all that an you not .its not fair if they can use that can I use my tracker with a tree switch? Say you.got a poor boy cast nobody has one they competing with a cast that does . They hunting by sound others are walking dogs down on a screen . They make more trees csuse they on top of dogs all the time.others are not. Its not fair.

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05-19-2014 06:57 PM

HOBO
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
Posts: 13415

Can't carry the Alpha in a hunt, so there goes that one.

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05-19-2014 07:11 PM

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T Burton
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2013
Location: Seminole,OK
Posts: 422

Re: ok

quote:
Originally posted by papa
But youl looking a a screen . The new ones shock to .it will stop one thing create anothor .not everybody has 800 dollars to buy one . So right off you at a a disadvanyage . The only way this can be fair is the club house. Supply you one if you dont have it csuse they on top of dog looking at dogs treed all that an you not .its not fair if they can use that can I use my tracker with a tree switch? Say you.got a poor boy cast nobody has one they competing with a cast that does . They hunting by sound others are walking dogs down on a screen . They make more trees csuse they on top of dogs all the time.others are not. Its not fair.

You are in major need of a rule book first off like was said a garmin can't be used to score a dog if you strike it the dog it has to be heard if you tree it the dog has to be heard If you do not hear dog the judge is not to take call If dog stops treein then start the 2 min not look at the garmin to see the only thing a garmin can be used for is a suggestion when dogs are on posted land or in a safety issue such as a road I doesn't matter how far dogs are and in what direction if you can't hear them than you stay with dogs that you can hear just like you did back in the day And you are more than welcome to use your old beeb beeb system as long as it don't interfere with the cast like it being loud all it will do is give a direction and as far as your tree switch goes if you tree off it better be able to hear the dog I won't take your call others will take your call and start the 2 The best thing to do is stay up on the rules and listen when they are reading the hunt check list because the telemetry rules should of been read before the draw out If I didn't no the rules I would be upset 2

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05-19-2014 08:10 PM

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Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2353

Re: ok

quote:
Originally posted by papa
not everybody has 800 dollars to buy one . So right off you at a a disadvanyage . Say you.got a poor boy cast nobody has one they competing with a cast that does . They hunting by sound others are walking dogs down on a screen . They make more trees csuse they on top of dogs all the time.others are not. Its not fair.

You can get a 220 with a DC30 for $300, and I have not seen my scores or anyone elses go up since the Garmin rule.

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05-19-2014 08:14 PM

RED REBELS
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2007
Location: Medford, WI
Posts: 3312

Re: ok

quote:
Originally posted by papa
But youl looking a a screen . The new ones shock to .it will stop one thing create anothor .not everybody has 800 dollars to buy one . So right off you at a a disadvanyage . The only way this can be fair is the club house. Supply you one if you dont have it csuse they on top of dog looking at dogs treed all that an you not .its not fair if they can use that can I use my tracker with a tree switch? Say you.got a poor boy cast nobody has one they competing with a cast that does . They hunting by sound others are walking dogs down on a screen . They make more trees csuse they on top of dogs all the time.others are not. Its not fair.

I don't know about you sir, but I know my dog is treed minutes before the garmin says it is... And just as well, you cannot tree your dog, minus a dog, declair them split or make any other ruling, other than if the dogs are in danger or not, based on the garmin. Before you say that the new garmin rule is bad or good, you should study the rules regarding it, because the garmin alpha (the track & train system) handheld is NOT allowed in the woods during hunt time.

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05-19-2014 08:15 PM

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T Burton
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2013
Location: Seminole,OK
Posts: 422

Not fair

Just read post all the way someone should supply you with a garmin if you don't have one if someone has a better dog Should the club supply you with a better dog cause you got beat ? If you don't have a truck or a light should they supply that 2

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05-19-2014 08:16 PM

papa
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 414

guess you right

Bottom line not only do you have to beat a dog you beating a computer. Got to have one or you just. **** outta luck..

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05-20-2014 09:49 AM

JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

Re: gsrmin on a cast

quote:
Originally posted by papa
I was in my first comp hunt the other night in years alot has changed for.one when I hunted before trackers were used only after rhe hunt was over now its used during the hunt ok I dont own a garmin but they did offer me a collar so I put it on him ok . .the whole time they used it to stay up with the dogs well at one point mine was way to the left others way to the right well they stayed wirh their two . I treed mine once withour a locate an knew he would not stay idk why I even did it but I did. He got quiet. They looked at the screen said hes moving. So I said minus him. Now we used these on hog dogs an they not moving they bayed . Now. You look at screen coondog is not moving hes treed right? Put it down a soon as he barks tree him .its a veido game now .last tree .hunt almost over. Finally time ran out start looking for dogs mine was over a mile away treed ? Knows couldent hear him had no control to keep track of him
.I dont think it should be allowed opens the door for more cheating than there ever was before js

Am I understanding this correctly?
You let the guys who are trying to beat you put THIER collar on YOUR dog but you don't have a Garmin so they are tracking your dog but you can't track him yourself? And you volunteered to do this?
My advice is don't do that again! Buy a Garmin / don't buy a Garmin, that is totally up to you. But I would not be handing over to the competition a ton of imformation about your dog that you yourself dont have.

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05-20-2014 03:06 PM

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roger wickerham
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2013
Location: michigan
Posts: 416

not meaning to jack the post but i did that same thing the other night on my first night hunt wont happen again did not like my comp. knowing were my dog was and i didnt learned alot my first time out!!!

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Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2353

Re: guess you right

quote:
Originally posted by papa
Bottom line not only do you have to beat a dog you beating a computer. Got to have one or you just. **** outta luck..

If your dog goes and trees coon, and dont make any mistakes, you win. Garmin or no Garmin.

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05-20-2014 05:23 PM

Tim Toler
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Winfield WV
Posts: 507

I am setting here reading this thread and thinking this... has anyone been minused (like this thread is talking about) by the Garmin and questioned it, or demand that the person be scratched as the rules state?

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prostockpat
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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 1309

Tim

Just happened at BBOA Bluetick Natl.
Guy treed his dog while others{incl. judge} was shinning a tree with 3 dogs barking.Judge listened and said;"I don't hear it, your minused".
If your dogs is treed alone,judge has got to hear it.No matter what your Garmin says!!!
Ask judge to step away and listen for a second.So he can hear the dog before trying to leash lock cast.
Judges "minus" call got questioned and they went back to the fairgrounds.Judges decision stood.

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05-20-2014 07:31 PM

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john Duemmer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 4005

Re: Tim

quote:
Originally posted by prostockpat
Just happened at BBOA Bluetick Natl.
Guy treed his dog while others{incl. judge} was shinning a tree with 3 dogs barking.Judge listened and said;"I don't hear it, your minused".
If your dogs is treed alone,judge has got to hear it.No matter what your Garmin says!!!
Ask judge to step away and listen for a second.So he can hear the dog before trying to leash lock cast.
Judges "minus" call got questioned and they back to the fairgrounds.Judges decision stood.

The judge cant say "i dont hear it" your minused.
What he can say is i will not accept the call because i dont hear the dog.
Or if he wants to be a hardass he could accept the call, immediatly start the 2 and then minus the dog when the 2 gets him, but thats not playing by the rules either.

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prostockpat
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Registered: Jan 2011
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Posts: 1309

Re: Re: Tim

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
The judge cant say "i dont hear it" your minused.
What he can say is i will not accept the call because i dont hear the dog.
Or if he wants to be a hardass he could accept the call, immediatly start the 2 and then minus the dog when the 2 gets him, but thats not playing by the rules either.

Sorry to tell you it went back to fairgrounds and judges ruling was upheld!!

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05-21-2014 04:16 AM

Paul Frederick
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2012
Location: Laurel, IN
Posts: 1478

Re: Re: Re: Tim

quote:
Originally posted by prostockpat
Sorry to tell you it went back to fairgrounds and judges ruling was upheld!!

If a Judge can't hear the dog, he cannot accept the call. This is the same way it's always been handled and hasn't changed with the introduction of the Telemetry Rules. Whether or not it was handled properly at this particular hunt is of no importance when it comes to this rule.

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Tim Toler
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Winfield WV
Posts: 507

Re: Re: Re: Re: Tim

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Frederick
If a Judge can't hear the dog, he cannot accept the call. This is the same way it's always been handled and hasn't changed with the introduction of the Telemetry Rules. Whether or not it was handled properly at this particular hunt is of no importance when it comes to this rule.

Paul and there lies the problem for most... no one rule is interpreted the same from one club to another... and from one cast to another...

here is a suggestion... When I use to Judge horseshows once a year there was a clinic where it was mandatory that all judges attend the clinic every year so the organization discussed what we were to judge on and look for in the different classes.. so that everyone was more on the same page then not from show to show..

the suggestion... how about saying all MOH must attend a training clinic at say Autumn Oaks once every 3 years or so to cover rule changes and rule interpretation... and the same for the bench show judges. that way everyone knows exactly how UKC wants the rules applied and keeps everyone updated.

This may not be possible but just a suggestion.

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05-21-2014 02:01 PM

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