Registered: Mar 2009
Location: West sunbury Pa.
Posts: 670

I've been reading about genetics and breeding of Race Horses, A lot of good info on there... There's a lot more money in horse racing than coon dogs, so the money spent is phenomenal, on testing of genetics, and crosses, X and Y chromosomes, the X-Factor that can be traced back over a 100 yrs is still popping up in race horses today...Secretariats Large Heart, etc.etc. A lot of good reading..

Just thought I would start another thread on breeding, pedigree positioning, genetics, Etc..

What are some of the trade secrets of the Race Horse industry on Breeding...

Do coon Dogs Have an X-factor that we don't know about..The Large Heart, that unbaleavable nose , unequaled track speed with a coon on the end..etc etc...something that can be traced back to one dog 50 yrs ago...

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Jason Clark
Home of over 25 yrs of Line bred Brookshier hounds!
Home of Line bred Durbins Rambler Hounds and heavy line bred Rolling Hills hounds.

~Where a man's word still means something & a handshake is all We need!!!

~Grntch Chestnut Grove Ben Semen(Full Brother to Uplinger's Joe & Son of Logan's Wild Clover x Sandy Creek Daisy) Not For Sale - Frank Hummel/Jason Clark

~Grntch Hardwood Whiner/Rolling Hills Hunter Semen(Son of Durbin's Rambler x Rolling Hills Jane) Not For Sale




~Dual ch.Brookshiers Finley River Driver(2007 Walker days 1st place & high scoring walker male sat) (Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~3 Wins to Grand, Nitch Clark's Mr.Wilson HTX(Driver x Cane River Cry Babe) Qualified 2014, 2016 UKC World Hunt
~Brookshier's Finley River Salty (Grntch. Brookshier's Finley River Sting x Cane River Trudy,Trudy is a Littermate to Wilson and Sassy)
~Brookshier's Finley River Sniper (Driver x Kraviks Babe) Uncle niece cross
~Brookshier's Finley River Momba (Driver X Kraviks Babe) Uncle Niece Cross
~Nitch Cane River Sassy (Driver x Cane River Cry Babe)Qualified 2012 UKC World Hunt
~Clark's Finley River Spot(Finley River Zig x Ramblin Jane) Winer and Ramblin Jane are Brother&Sister
~Clark's Rolling Hills Skinner (Grntch Hardwood Winer x Clark's Finley River Spot)
~Nitch Brookshier's Crosscountry Gert. (Uncle Lee x Crosscountry music) Daughter of Lone Pine Dewey
~Nitch Brookshier's Finley River Viper(Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~Brookshier's Fullblown Rage (Uncle Lee x Finley River Molly ) Daughter of F.R. Lonnie x Fulkerson's F.R. Suzy
~Clark's Little River (Grntch Shoemakers Gator x Grntch Shoemakers Lou
~Brookshier's Otter Creek Dan (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Little Lady (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Penns. Scooby (Denny Burn's Willie x Backwater Kate ,Uncle Lee's mother)

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Kentucky Wildcat Country
Posts: 4600

All that money spent and Big Red ran that time in what, 1972, and not one horse has ran it faster since.

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Perry Metcalf.. Go Big Blue !

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: West sunbury Pa.
Posts: 670

Secretariat was with out a doubt the greatest race horse ever to run around a track...But was not a very good reproducer, but his daughters have produced very well.. If you want some good reading , read about Secretariat ,just type in secretariat on your computer ,or I-Pad, and start reading...

Why was he such a great Race Horse?
Did they make that cross again, and if so what was the outcome?
Was he a good Reproducer?
How was he Bred?
Where did the large heart come from?.
Did any other Race horses ever have a large Heart?


It is very interesting Reading...

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Jason Clark
Home of over 25 yrs of Line bred Brookshier hounds!
Home of Line bred Durbins Rambler Hounds and heavy line bred Rolling Hills hounds.

~Where a man's word still means something & a handshake is all We need!!!

~Grntch Chestnut Grove Ben Semen(Full Brother to Uplinger's Joe & Son of Logan's Wild Clover x Sandy Creek Daisy) Not For Sale - Frank Hummel/Jason Clark

~Grntch Hardwood Whiner/Rolling Hills Hunter Semen(Son of Durbin's Rambler x Rolling Hills Jane) Not For Sale




~Dual ch.Brookshiers Finley River Driver(2007 Walker days 1st place & high scoring walker male sat) (Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~3 Wins to Grand, Nitch Clark's Mr.Wilson HTX(Driver x Cane River Cry Babe) Qualified 2014, 2016 UKC World Hunt
~Brookshier's Finley River Salty (Grntch. Brookshier's Finley River Sting x Cane River Trudy,Trudy is a Littermate to Wilson and Sassy)
~Brookshier's Finley River Sniper (Driver x Kraviks Babe) Uncle niece cross
~Brookshier's Finley River Momba (Driver X Kraviks Babe) Uncle Niece Cross
~Nitch Cane River Sassy (Driver x Cane River Cry Babe)Qualified 2012 UKC World Hunt
~Clark's Finley River Spot(Finley River Zig x Ramblin Jane) Winer and Ramblin Jane are Brother&Sister
~Clark's Rolling Hills Skinner (Grntch Hardwood Winer x Clark's Finley River Spot)
~Nitch Brookshier's Crosscountry Gert. (Uncle Lee x Crosscountry music) Daughter of Lone Pine Dewey
~Nitch Brookshier's Finley River Viper(Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~Brookshier's Fullblown Rage (Uncle Lee x Finley River Molly ) Daughter of F.R. Lonnie x Fulkerson's F.R. Suzy
~Clark's Little River (Grntch Shoemakers Gator x Grntch Shoemakers Lou
~Brookshier's Otter Creek Dan (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Little Lady (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Penns. Scooby (Denny Burn's Willie x Backwater Kate ,Uncle Lee's mother)

Last edited by Trinket clark on 02-16-2014 at 01:33 PM

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: West sunbury Pa.
Posts: 670

I used to live in Lawrenceburgh Kentucky...my parents still do..along with a brother and a sister.. Only been to the Kentucky Derby once, it was really cool.
Was a blacksmith and shoed horses for a living for about 10 yrs, till my back gave out..always loved horses thought this topic would bring up some good conversations... Good Hunting Bud.

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Jason Clark
Home of over 25 yrs of Line bred Brookshier hounds!
Home of Line bred Durbins Rambler Hounds and heavy line bred Rolling Hills hounds.

~Where a man's word still means something & a handshake is all We need!!!

~Grntch Chestnut Grove Ben Semen(Full Brother to Uplinger's Joe & Son of Logan's Wild Clover x Sandy Creek Daisy) Not For Sale - Frank Hummel/Jason Clark

~Grntch Hardwood Whiner/Rolling Hills Hunter Semen(Son of Durbin's Rambler x Rolling Hills Jane) Not For Sale




~Dual ch.Brookshiers Finley River Driver(2007 Walker days 1st place & high scoring walker male sat) (Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~3 Wins to Grand, Nitch Clark's Mr.Wilson HTX(Driver x Cane River Cry Babe) Qualified 2014, 2016 UKC World Hunt
~Brookshier's Finley River Salty (Grntch. Brookshier's Finley River Sting x Cane River Trudy,Trudy is a Littermate to Wilson and Sassy)
~Brookshier's Finley River Sniper (Driver x Kraviks Babe) Uncle niece cross
~Brookshier's Finley River Momba (Driver X Kraviks Babe) Uncle Niece Cross
~Nitch Cane River Sassy (Driver x Cane River Cry Babe)Qualified 2012 UKC World Hunt
~Clark's Finley River Spot(Finley River Zig x Ramblin Jane) Winer and Ramblin Jane are Brother&Sister
~Clark's Rolling Hills Skinner (Grntch Hardwood Winer x Clark's Finley River Spot)
~Nitch Brookshier's Crosscountry Gert. (Uncle Lee x Crosscountry music) Daughter of Lone Pine Dewey
~Nitch Brookshier's Finley River Viper(Uncle Lee x Finley River Sally)
~Brookshier's Fullblown Rage (Uncle Lee x Finley River Molly ) Daughter of F.R. Lonnie x Fulkerson's F.R. Suzy
~Clark's Little River (Grntch Shoemakers Gator x Grntch Shoemakers Lou
~Brookshier's Otter Creek Dan (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Little Lady (Uncle Lee x Otter Creek Hanna, Daughter of Otter Creek Rusty)
~Brookshier's Penns. Scooby (Denny Burn's Willie x Backwater Kate ,Uncle Lee's mother)

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

Interesting topic. Trinket Clark mentioned that Secretariet was not a good reproducer but his daughters were.

I think we see that same result from time to time in our coonhounds. I made a cross about 8 years ago, that on paper looked to be outstanding. I was breeding my female whose linage was superior strike, track, locate, and treeing ability to a male that had same/similar dogs in his pedigree. That being said, I didn't get what I was expecting. We now have bred a male offspring from that cross to a female offspring (1st cousin to the male) and we now have a young dog that is operating much like what I expected from the original cross.

I'm not sure if the results we are now seeing, are due to the skipped generation theory, or if it is because of the fact that we doubled up on the blood on the bottom side of this last cross.

But this is an interesting topic (at least for me)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

interesting topic.
im no authority by any means, but it would seem to me that many more stars would need to line up to get a super coondog than it would to get a fast horse.

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Registered: Feb 2010
Location: Bardstown Ky
Posts: 158

This is a very interesting I think. I have been around an bred horses my whole life. We have show horses we look for natural ability to gait an the lift of their front feet. We had a very nice mare we breed to 4 or 5 different studs her foals all had the exact same traits. A great natural gait with a big lifting front end. No matter what we bred her to the foals where all the same the only thing that was different on every foal was color. So my question kinda is how much comes from the father or mother. In this case it was like all the ability came from the female an the only thing from the male was color.

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

quote:

---

Originally posted by elvis
interesting topic.
im no authority by any means, but it would seem to me that many more stars would need to line up to get a super coondog than it would to get a fast horse.

---

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Joe Newlin
UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

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Registered: May 2010
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 350

quote:

---

Originally posted by elvis
interesting topic.
im no authority by any means, but it would seem to me that many more stars would need to line up to get a super coondog than it would to get a fast horse.

---

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Registered: Mar 2013
Location:
Posts: 618

i am not much on reading but i did watch the movie.big red
was not even the 1st choice by a major breeder was he?

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Registered: May 2007
Location: fairmont wv
Posts: 11976

i think it has sme to do with the blood line but you can breed the best to the best and get duds when i look at a dog or horse i look at what kind of heart they got and how they go don't pay much atteion to blood lines on a dog if i like him or her now on horses i do pay atteion some what to bloodlines the ward bred horses and sonny jr blood usally makes good pulling horses so i sorta try to get something outa that line if i buy a horse

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 2785

discipline ...

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

They done a study on coon dog genetics and mapped out the chromosomes. They are letters. Its very intersting. Coondog genetics is complicated yet still very very simple. Each letter represents a trait and they actually found a whole strand together. THey put the letters together. It says.




















L I P P E R

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

YOU KNOW YOU LAUGHED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

All jokes aside, Lipper blood is awesome.

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Registered: Nov 2008
Location: central illinois
Posts: 14

There is a similar breeding fact that happened with birddogs. CH. Red Water Rex was a dominant winner on the all age circuit winning multiple championships was bred a lot and was used by elhew kennels never produced much himself but his daughters produced several champions when crossed with several different studs. No one could explain it but his daughters were considered strong reproducers. Dan

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Registered: Sep 2003
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Posts: 2785

Just goes to show the influence of the dam is much stronger than the sire ... the first gyps or mares bred to a big name sire are throwing THEIR offspring .. but his daughters will throw more of their sire in turn ....

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Registered: May 2011
Location: Goochland VA
Posts: 169

My hunting buddy hunts the Meadow where secretariat was born. The farm was perfect for producing and training thoroughbreds. It must not work for coon dogs though cause they still suck.lol

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Kentucky Wildcat Country
Posts: 4600

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trinket clark
Secretariat was with out a doubt the greatest race horse ever to run around a track...But was not a very good reproducer, but his daughters have produced very well.. If you want some good reading , read about Secretariat ,just type in secretariat on your computer ,or I-Pad, and start reading...

Why was he such a great Race Horse?
Did they make that cross again, and if so what was the outcome?
Was he a good Reproducer?
How was he Bred?
Where did the large heart come from?.
Did any other Race horses ever have a large Heart?


It is very interesting Reading...

---

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Perry Metcalf.. Go Big Blue !

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location:
Posts: 143

quote:

---

Originally posted by BigD62
There is a similar breeding fact that happened with birddogs. CH. Red Water Rex was a dominant winner on the all age circuit winning multiple championships was bred a lot and was used by elhew kennels never produced much himself but his daughters produced several champions when crossed with several different studs. No one could explain it but his daughters were considered strong reproducers. Dan

---

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: sugarcreekohio
Posts: 1346

seabuiscut.....adios---DELVIN MILLER AND A HORSE NAMED== ADIOS ===IS ALL WHAT STARTED THE MEADOWS IN WASHINGTON PA.==ADIOS WAS IN ALMOST EVERY STANDARBRED HORSES PEDIGREES ==JUST LIKE HOUSES LIPPER== BUT ITS ALMOST BRED OUT==YES THRS A LOT MORE MONEY IN HORSES== BUT ITS TEN TIMES MORE WORK TO GET A HORSE READY FOR A RACE THAN A COON DOG READY FOR A HUNT ===THEY HAVE 1 RACE PER YEAR CALLED THE ADIOS ==THE PURSE LAST FALL WAS -- 450.OOO,= THE WINNER GOT HAVE THE PURSE REST WAS SPLIT UNDER 6 OTHER HORSES==AND IT LASTED 1 MIN. 46 SEC. BUT I LIKE MY DOGS

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Last edited by AndyMiller on 02-18-2014 at 09:48 PM

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Deckerville, Michigan
Posts: 772

Ain't nothing said here about breeding dogs, or horses, that Guy Ormiston hasn't covered in the last 20 or more years writing in UKC Coonhound Bloodlines...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6544

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dirtdevil
Just goes to show the influence of the dam is much stronger than the sire ... the first gyps or mares bred to a big name sire are throwing THEIR offspring .. but his daughters will throw more of their sire in turn ....

---

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Atherton

Push comes to shove, we would all be much better off if we would just increase our levels of breeding stock selection.

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Joe Newlin
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Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 2785

yeah , mom and dad both contribute the same number of chromosomes and such .. and the dominate dna is supposed to be the one expressed most ... but by and large , in reality .. it's momma's babies .. daddy's maybe.

We see it in so many studs ...dogs or horses , the sire's daughters produce better and more of his traits than he did .... and in that case , he wasn't even there when the conception happened ! So contribution of chromosomes sure aint the main factor of the grandparents wouldn't even be in the picture

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