Registered: Aug 2009
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What are the characteristics that we need to be breeding for to stay on track!

What is the most important traits that we can breed in for improvement. Is there any lessons we can learn from the past to help us with the future??

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

They must go hunting in my opinion by themselves one way no return.

Thats where most are lacking.JMO

me personally I dont like a dog to put there head down when you cut them and that seems to be the most common style.

I want to see a dog go and go now, head up and covering ground,If they have to go 2 mile to get struck then they need to get there and get there now.

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Larry D Walker

Indiana

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Last edited by Larry D Walker on 02-05-2014 at 12:36 AM

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Location: East central Illinois.
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STRIKE

I'd like more first strikes.

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Elbridge Redbones
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go huntin, big mouth

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: Western Kentucky
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Loud Mouth, Go Yonder, Fast Tracking, Dying Locate,First and First type nothing better than that in competition! If we can breed for this the coondog world would be turning Red!

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Southern IN
Posts: 383

Sign me up. I have hunted with all of these things except for the dying bawl locate rolled over into a chop. Don't even know where to start looking. It's not a must for us to improve on just what I would like to see. JMO. This should be a good thread.

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: Western Kentucky
Posts: 412

I've got a female here with a dying bawl locate that my eight year old daughter can call treed but the rest is my wish list for my future pups !

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Registered: Dec 2008
Location: Milford, Illinois
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S.T.T.S. strike track tree stay (STAY)

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Registered: Jun 2003
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I like winter time because we all have more time to talk about dogs and rehash good topics.

My answer is the same one last time this topic came up.
In my mind it is simple there are two things that get us what we all want in a hound. Those are Drive and Brains.

Drive is the secrect ingrediant you can easily see in a young dog when they want to go hunting on their own and will automatically follow another barking hound. It's the natural instinct to search out and push a track to catch the game.

Brains is simply the trait that allows them to learn and store info and react to training as well as all other stimuli. They figure out how to act socially with other dogs without problems and they want to please their owners.

All other traits are really of no concern if the dog lacks in these first two. The length of ear or tone of voice are of no value if the dog never leaves our side or can not react to what is happening around it. Cold nose or hot will not tree a coon without drive and brains.

What we all want is a smart easy handling dog that seems to train themselves by just being hauled to the woods and ones with that natural spark to go get something started and be smart enough to figure out ol Mr. coons tricks. We will live with most all orther traits if these first two are met

The perfect dog always has Drive and Brains, after that its up for debate.

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Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,


They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

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Registered: Dec 2013
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Posts: 71

Get gone quick alone get struck quick and treed with the meat under pressure. plus points

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sawblade
I like winter time because we all have more time to talk about dogs and rehash good topics.

My answer is the same one last time this topic came up.
In my mind it is simple there are two things that get us what we all want in a hound. Those are Drive and Brains.

Drive is the secrect ingrediant you can easily see in a young dog when they want to go hunting on their own and will automatically follow another barking hound. It's the natural instinct to search out and push a track to catch the game.

Brains is simply the trait that allows them to learn and store info and react to training as well as all other stimuli. They figure out how to act socially with other dogs without problems and they want to please their owners.

All other traits are really of no concern if the dog lacks in these first two. The length of ear or tone of voice are of no value if the dog never leaves our side or can not react to what is happening around it. Cold nose or hot will not tree a coon without drive and brains.

What we all want is a smart easy handling dog that seems to train themselves by just being hauled to the woods and ones with that natural spark to go get something started and be smart enough to figure out ol Mr. coons tricks. We will live with most all orther traits if these first two are met

The perfect dog always has Drive and Brains, after that its up for debate.

---

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Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Montana
Posts: 934

Think Mr. Hyde hit the nail square on the head. At least that's what I breed for. Without brains the rest is lost. I like smart dogs that try their hardest to please me. Around here they need to have drive too and be straight. Have to go deep to get struck a lot of times and cross many species besides coon to get struck. Stubborn determination helps too out here when dogs have to cold trail a lion for mile after mile in deep snow and cold. They have to be tough out here and built to go hard miles day after day. Good feet and legs aren't about pretty out here, they are what's keeps a dog together. All the heart in the world doesn't matter if they are too sore and broken down to walk. Everyone has different needs and wants.

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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: east ohio
Posts: 1277

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sawblade


My answer is the same one last time this topic came up.
In my mind it is simple there are two things that get us what we all want in a hound. Those are Drive and Brains.

Drive is the secrect ingrediant you can easily see in a young dog when they want to go hunting on their own and will automatically follow another barking hound. It's the natural instinct to search out and push a track to catch the game.

Brains is simply the trait that allows them to learn and store info and react to training as well as all other stimuli. They figure out how to act socially with other dogs without problems and they want to please their owners.

All other traits are really of no concern if the dog lacks in these first two. The length of ear or tone of voice are of no value if the dog never leaves our side or can not react to what is happening around it. Cold nose or hot will not tree a coon without drive and brains.

What we all want is a smart easy handling dog that seems to train themselves by just being hauled to the woods and ones with that natural spark to go get something started and be smart enough to figure out ol Mr. coons tricks. We will live with most all orther traits if these first two are met

Kelly nailed it ...jmo these are self starters naturals just show them how to lead load then when there big enuff to keep up take them to the woods with a finished hound you know real quick what you have (about three nights)...they save you a lot of time money and work

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9282

I agree with Kelly. Without those key ingredients the rest is not of much value. I think one needs to walk behind several dogs that have outstanding hunt smarts to fully appreciate and understand the value of "brains".

Drive and desire are key traits, absolutely. But I think we sometimes misinterpret these traits as a dog that travels two miles in two minutes and happened across a pop up. When smarts are part of the arsenal in the hunting machine that two-mile driver might have one treed a lot closer and sooner.

Reminds me of one I hunted for a while that was that type (go yonder straight-line hunter). He'd tree a mile and half away and could do it fairly quickly considering the distance. Then take an hour walking to him and look at the coon. Put him on the lead and take the hour walk back to the truck only to fight him off of five other tracks on the way back! Awesome hunting machine..... NOT!

A theory that I still subscribe to: If I wanted to hunt that section two miles down the road that's where I would have turned loose to begin with.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Allen / UKC
..... outstanding hunt smarts...

---

I like that term. You have to have had one before you really know what it means. I had one once. When you turned him loose, he could go straight to the first tree with a coon in it. He could tree every coon in a patch of woods when he wanted to. In thick coon, he would know where his next tree was going to be. But when he got older, he would only tree them when "he" wanted to. Sometimes I think that he was a little too "smart".

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

quote:

---

Originally posted by Allen / UKC
I agree with Kelly. Without those key ingredients the rest is not of much value. I think one needs to walk behind several dogs that have outstanding hunt smarts to fully appreciate and understand the value of "brains".

Drive and desire are key traits, absolutely. But I think we sometimes misinterpret these traits as a dog that travels two miles in two minutes and happened across a pop up. When smarts are part of the arsenal in the hunting machine that two-mile driver might have one treed a lot closer and sooner.

Reminds me of one I hunted for a while that was that type (go yonder straight-line hunter). He'd tree a mile and half away and could do it fairly quickly considering the distance. Then take an hour walking to him and look at the coon. Put him on the lead and take the hour walk back to the truck only to fight him off of five other tracks on the way back! Awesome hunting machine..... NOT!

A theory that I still subscribe to: If I wanted to hunt that section two miles down the road that's where I would have turned loose to begin with.

---

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Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

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Registered: Not Yet
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Accuracy Consistancey and Independence, those are the big three for me.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22586

I once got to hunt 2 Redbones at the same time for quite some time. I hunted them both together and separately. One was a very stylish kind of hound with a big beautiful mouth, a gorgeous foghorn locate, a great nose and all of the "drive" that a man could want. When you cut him loose, you had to get him off of a tree somewhere. He could fly through the country and was an excellant track dog with a one bark locate while still being accurate. The other wasn't very stylish. He chopped on track and chopped on tree. He had a locate but would rarely use it. He also wasn't as accurate as the other dog. He hunted fairly close and was at times lazy. But he had hunt smarts and probably too much "brain". Guess which one was the best "competition" hound? One of them won a lot more hunts and beat the best walker dogs of his day. But the other big name walker handlers always fussed and cussed when they got beat by him. The other won a few hunts and was always congratulated by the other hunters when they got beat because he looked so good doing it. One of them won about $8,000 and the other won about $800. Can you guess which was which. I guess that the moral of this very true story is: all of the drive, mouth, nose and style won't do you a bit of good without the brains or hunt smarts.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 02-06-2014 at 05:46 PM

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Farmington WI.
Posts: 644

is we need to be hunting lazy poor mouthed slick treeing dogs to win.
now that's thinking out side the box Richard I like your style lol...

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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quote:

---

Originally posted by josh tetting
now that's thinking out side the box Richard I like your style lol...

---

Oh I am definitely ouside of the box. I am glad to see that I have a new fan.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 120

I also agree with Mr Hyde. Drive and desire along with brains. Drive and desire for me isn't 2 miles in 2 minutes. I want then to stay in the dark and cover ground, preferably in circles around me that keep increasing until eventually they are 2 miles if that's what it takes. Brains to me means a lot of things but first of all it means where to look for a coon. I've seen some dogs that just seemed to know where to find a coon whole others might look hard for one but never get one struck. After drive, desire, and brains, we need quicker strikes. Jmo

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 120

This is a very interesting forum! I hope that as breeders we can all be open minded to what will benefit our breed. I know there are a lot of really nice, balanced walkers out there but as a breed in general, I think they have WAY too much treedog bred in them. I hope that's not the direction we are heading. Too many breeders wanna breed tree dogs to tree dogs when they should be breeding coon dogs to coon dogs. Just because they can get treed don't make them a coon dog or a reproducer! Jmo

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Rock Creek Coonhounds
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Posts: 3985

I think we can learn from some mistakes others have made in other breeds. After reading some of the responses on here and the other thread I started; I am convinced of the following! The number 1 trait above all for me is that they are a coondog first! If that REDDOG is only got mr ringtail 50% or 60% of the time; in my books that's not a coondog!!!

Here's my list from there!!!

#2 Mouth (Loud)
#3 Chop Mouth Tree Dog
#4 Bawl Mouth Track Dog
#3 Drive and Brains
# 4 Honest Quick Strike
# 5 Looks & Color
# 6 Good disposition with people and dogs

Last edited by timber hunter on 02-08-2014 at 03:35 AM

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Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Southwest MI
Posts: 236

...Not that I disagree with some of the greats like king richard, allen kelly and mr. marshall but for the sake of topic and discution, what good is a super smart dog with all the drive and abilty to adapt and react to different cast with different dogs hunting spots from michigan to mississippi if you can barely hear it run track or tree more then 3 or 4 hundred yards away by themself let olone on a cast with a loud babbling blue dog and 2 giant mouth walker dogs all of which can cover your tree before you ever knew ya had it? not saying we should stide to breed dogs for mouths or BPM but a small mouth female who puts up 30 BPM can be honestly...and I mean redbone honest, not walker honest 90% accurate but be quite difficult to win hunts with still and all good traits over looked when looking to breed because nobody remembers a dog they never heard and nobody wants to breed to a dog they never heard of

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Last edited by cooter_hunter on 02-07-2014 at 11:48 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1589

I hear what your saying about being loud and it is, for sure important.
but think about it the other way, what good is the loudest dog in the world if it has no drive and no brains. It is no good at all.

I really haven't seen very many dogs that I can't hear from a good long ways off. Voice doesn't seem to be a big problem ,I believe we can fix voice problems pretty quick . There are many good hounds that will throw nice loud dogs but the drive and brains thing ,that takes a lot longer to get on a regular basis. Jmo

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Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,


They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

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