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cartwright
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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: HUNTERS HAVEN, WV
Posts: 3541

The Coonhound Advisor

New Tracking Telemetry Rules
Posted on 01/13/2014 in_The Coonhound Advisor

It’s no secret there’s been a lot of discussion in the past year on the use of tracking telemetry during a hunt. Ideas of a less restrictive policy have been ongoing far longer. During the past year, several test hunts were held at licensed events, as well as numerous discussions by UKC with avid nite hunters. Reported feedback from test hunts suggest that hunters do, in fact, support a less restrictive telemetry policy, and that allowing their use is a great tool, most specifically and importantly, where safety to hounds is concerned.

Any negative discussion generally surrounds concern for handlers using telemetry to gain an unfair advantage or to cheat in some manner. Some do, in fact, make good arguments; however, we can also easily go overboard with implementing rules to guard against the crook to the point of the honest individual being left with unnecessary sacrifices. Why? A crook is a crook regardless of any written rule. Last time I checked, the nite hunt rules were based on an honor system. In other words, they are there but they still require the hunter to “honor” them. Before we get too carried away with pointing fingers at a crook, think about something as simple as we (considered as being honest) voted to circle a tree that we would have considered slick had it been a pleasure hunt or had our own dog not been a part of it? Where’s the honor in that? Sometimes this topic can hit a little closer to home than we would like for it to. Yes?

It’s time to use the resources available to us for the betterment of our hunt and safety to hounds. If you haven’t heard your hound in a good while, wouldn’t you be more at ease knowing where he was? If he’s in a neighboring barn or snooping around a home owner’s buildings, wouldn’t you want to know so that you can take necessary action, if needed? If the dogs are treed on the river, wouldn’t it be good to know which side? If dogs are treed in a big swamp, would it not be nice to see the best course of travel to and from? The list goes on.

The policy for telemetry use will have only a handful of rigidly enforced, yet simple, rules as follows:_
RULE # 1. Under no circumstances may telemetry be used to determine the scoring of any dog(s).
RULE # 2. If, by way of telemetry, a handler deems dog to be in danger per an item outlined in Rule 7, they may ask for a cast vote to call time out. If a majority is not reached, the handler may withdraw the dog and retrieve it for safety’s sake.
RULE # 3. At no time may a handler demand the cast walk in the direction of a hound that has not been heard opening. The judge, or majority of the cast when hunting judge is used, may agree to walk in that direction.
RULE # 4. When considering the use of telemetry during the hunt, the handler may not interfere with any handler’s ability to listen for their hound. Handlers failing to heed to such a warning by the judge shall have their dog scratched from the cast.
RULE # 5. A Master of Hounds/Panel may not consider any debate that is based on telemetry use.

General Information: The handheld of GPS “tracking only” systems may be carried and powered on during the hunt. A handheld capable of controlling (stimulating or toning) a dog may not be carried or used during the hunt unless the controlling features are disabled and agreed upon as such by all members of the cast. Any handler found to be in violation of any controlling device as outlined under Rule 17 is subject to disciplinary action and/or suspension by UKC.

There are numerous situations that occur in the woods that might get judges in a pickle if they are not careful; however, using good judgment paired with the handful of specific telemetry use rules listed above will eliminate them. If judges quickly distinguish and/or disregard any debates of “my system says so and so”, it will help them considerably. For instance, the following items remain intact regardless of any telemetry use.
 • The judge or majority of the cast must be able to hear a dog before a strike call may be accepted._
• A dog off deep in the country treeing must be heard before a tree call may be accepted.
• Even though you’ve pinpointed the location of a treed dog, the dog(s) must bark every two minutes.
• It must be obvious to the judge (determined via ears or eyes) that a dog is split before assigning split tree points.
• A dog quitting its track is still subject to the eight-minute rule that is kept open by any dog in the cast.
• A dog that went back to the trucks and jumped in the dog box may be failing to hunt but the dog will only be subject to the clock for such when he is “seen” not hunting by the judge.
• A dog leaving tree is determined by the judge’s ears and is never based on the result of a telemetry system.

The bottom line is that handlers must understand that zero information based on telemetry will be considered by a judge or a Master of Hounds when it comes to any scoring debates. Instead, telemetry is only used for other purposes. Number one should always be for safety purposes and peace of mind. Other than that a cast may find their use beneficial when hunting unfamiliar territory, the last spot they could hear a dog trailing from or making their way back to the trucks._

No doubt, this new telemetry policy is huge and a significant change for the sport. If you have your doubts, give it some time and remember that 25 years ago they were saying hunting judges would be the death of the sport. If you’re in the majority that supports this change, use it as intended for the safety of your hound and to the benefit of your hunt.

Award Options at UKC Licensed Events
As times have changed, and clubs must find new methods to raise funds, UKC must reflect those changes. After much consideration, UKC has eliminated past restrictions on monetary awards for licensed events. However, the club must understand and be aware that there may be additional law and tax implications to which to adhere to should they be interested in awarding monetary prizes or conduct any Calcutta/Jackpot/Added Purse type activities at their event. UKC cannot provide any legal advice or information regarding any additional laws and/or tax implications that may be associated with such activities, and is not responsible for any complications that may arise. Clubs are responsible for ensuring compliance on their own, and must know that they proceed at their own risk with any such activities. The distribution of prize money is the sole responsibility of the club. The UKC will not enter into any disputes thereof.

Trophies or plaques are the most popular because they give winners a memento by which to remember that hunt. Clubs may also choose to have a Poor Boy event where no awards are given. Generally, entry fees are lower for Poor Boy events. If the club chooses to not give awards, they are strongly encouraged to note “Poor Boy” on the Event Confirmation form so it can be advertised as such.

The club may choose to pay back entry fees or some other monetary prize to their winners. In the event they wish to include an added purse in their award package, the club should include such notice in the Special Instructions section when confirming the event. Clubs are not required to give the same type of award for various events they may host on the same day.

UKC Slam events award monetary payouts based on the event fee and total entry. Clubs have two options for an entry fee ($20 or $30). Fifty-five (55) percent of the entry fee is paid out to event winners. In the past, an amount based on the total entry and fee was placed in the UKC Youth Fund as a part of the events recording fees. A revision has been made where regular recording fees now apply. Any monies that used to go to the Youth Fund are now retained by the Host Club. Payout breakdowns are included with all Slam Event packets.

Given these options, clubs certainly have the opportunity to be creative when it comes to awards and opportunities to raise more funds at their events, if interested. Most young or newer participants are tickled with any type of trophies to display at home, while the more seasoned hunter’s trophy room is already overcrowded and they would just as soon have a little cash return to put back in the gas tank. You may want to consider having the text on your trophies be universal to where they are not date-specific and can be used for any one of your events throughout the year. That way you could give your winner the option of a trophy, an entry fee refund (or some other amount of cash), gas card, free entry fee to a subsequent hunt at the club, etc. The list could go on and on.

If your club thinks they might draw a better entry if they gave out a cash award, then you have that option. If you’d rather stick with trophies, so be it. You do what best suits/fits the club and/or your participants. UKC considers clubs hosting their licensed events as the backbone of the sport. Without them there is no sport. In this day and age they need more available resources to keep their doors open. This policy change is geared towards that effort and allows them to decide what works best for them.

__________________
"PROUD SPONSOR OF BREAST CANCER AWEARNESS"

"Tell the truth the first time and you won't have to remember what you said!!!"


"25 years and still breeding coonhound to coonhound. Our goal is to bred yesteryears hound back into today's hounds"

"Remember the next time you go hunting take a child"

HOME OF THE RED WHITE AND BLUES


Please visit our website at the following link..

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HOME OF OUR VERY OWN

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES OL' BLU

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES JR

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S TAMMY

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES SUE

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES PEARL

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S WHITE MT DEW

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S FLOSIE

UKC NITECH AKC 'PR' HARD WOOD PEPPER

WV BACK COUNTRY BOB - (Black and Tan Cur)

Our Co-Owned Hounds

UKC 'PR' Given's Plain English Lil' Blue w/Chad Given

AND REMEMBER "KEEP'EM ENGLISH"

*Proud Member of UEB&FA, SEA, BRAXTON CO.CHA, Mud River Coon Club Inc. Pocahontas Nicholas CHA*
Junior Cartwright (304) 575-4495 cell

We Use And Recommend BLAZER & TRI-TRONICS NIGHT RAZOR LIGHTS, TRI-TRONICS, OLT SQUALLERS, INNOTEK & GARMIN 320 TRACKING SYSTEMS & PURINA DOG FEED, MUCK BOOTS DAN CHAPS


OUR RED FERN GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN CHAMPIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS...

R.I.P. UKC NITECH PKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S HARDTIME HANK 5/10/04 - 6/23/14

R.I.P. UKC GRCH NITECH & AKC CGCH RANSOM'S BAM 7/23/05 - 01/06/14

R.I.P.2011-2013 PERFORMANCE SIRE
UKC NITECH GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' MADDY GEES ROOFUS W/1-win towards GRAND!!! 8/21/2006-12/31/2012

R.I.P. UKC NKC AKC (TRIPLE) NITE CH CH 'PR' HAFA ADAI GIN "GINGER"

R.I.P. UKC CH 'PR' HALL'S BIG WHEEL

R.I.P. UKC NITE CH 'PR' DARK MTN CRANKIN' ROCK

R.I.P. CH 'PR' DARK HOLLOW TREE SLAMIN' BETTY

R.I.P. UKC GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' WELL KEPT SECRET

UKC CH 'PR' MAGNIFICENT MAGGIE

R.I.P UKC GRNITECH 'PR' BROWNS GAULEY RIVER DAN

"THEY ARE IN OUR THOUGHT'S AT EVERY TREE"

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JiM
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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 4586

Be great if this could be made into some sort of poster that could then be mounted on the wall behind every MOH table.

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PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 2010 Walker Days Pup Champion - 2010 UKC World Hunt Finalist - 2011 UKC World Hunt Qualified - 2012 World Hunt Qualified-2013 World Hunt Qualified - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
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cartwright
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2008
Location: HUNTERS HAVEN, WV
Posts: 3541

New Telemetry Rules

New Telemetry Rules
Posted on 02/10/2014 in_The Coonhound Advisor

This column is solely dedicated to questions and answers relative to the new Telemetry Rules.

Q: When will the new telemetry rules go into effect?

A: The new telemetry rules will go into effect on January 1, 2014 for all UKC Licensed Nite Hunts.

Q: So can I carry my tracking system and leave it on while hunt time is in?

A: Yes, the handheld of most tracking systems may be powered on and used at the discretion of the user during anytime of the hunt, provided it is not a disturbance to other handlers as outlined under Rule 4 of the Telemetry Rules. The only type of tracking system that is not allowed to be carried and used during time in is one that is also capable of controlling a dog.

Q: Where can I read about this new rule?

A: Telemetry Rules are available via several different avenues.

1. Refer to the last part of this column. The rules were also published in last month’s Advisor Column (December 2013).

2. Review and/or print them off of UKC’s website (www.ukc

dogs.com) from the Coonhound News Page.

3. Request a copy via email to Allen Gingerich at agin

gerich@ukcdogs.com[/email] or [email]coonhounds@ukcdogs.com.

4. They are listed on the back side of the Master of Hounds Checklist that is included in each UKC Licensed Event packet. They should be posted at the club.

Q: If the handheld portion of the Alpha system is turned off isn’t it disabled?

A: It is UKC’s position that turned off is just that; “turned off”. It’s a momentary thing. Turn it on and you’re back in business. UKC’s definition of disabled is, the feature cannot function if or when it is turned to the “on” position. For the sake of an example let’s use my four-wheel drive truck. The accessible button in the cab allows me to turn on and engage the four-wheel drive feature. I can leave it turned off and the drive shaft is not engaged. By UKC’s definition, leaving it turned off does not constitute disabled because at any given time I can turn it on and enable or engage the feature. If I removed the driveshaft the feature would be considered disabled.

Q: If I lock my stimulation buttons does that constitute “disabled”?

A: No, it does not by UKC’s definition of disabling. See previous question and answer.

Q: The rule that applies to GPS trackers that also control, such as the Garmin Alpha, states they may be used if the controlling features are disabled which I take to mean the shocking prongs must be removed. But that still leaves the tone button feature which I assume would mean the Alpha still cannot be carried on the cast. My question is; can Garmin’s Alpha be carried during hunt time in the same manner as the Astro or not?

A: Rule 17 (controlling devices) states: {Any handheld device capable of controlling a dog (stimulating or toning), unless feature can be and is disabled while unit is in the on position, must be left in vehicle and may not be used by handler or spectators until dog wearing device is scratched and all other dogs are recovered for recasting.}

There are a couple of key phrases in that sentence, “capable of controlling” and “while unit is in the on position”. The Alpha is in fact capable of controlling a dog when turned to the on position; therefore, carrying this specific hand held unit would not satisfy Rule 17. While removing the prongs would disable one portion of the Alpha’s two separate controlling features, it would not disable the toning feature. In answer to the specific question; the current Alpha cannot be carried in the same manner as the Astro.

There have been several discussions and theories on how one can disable the controlling features on a Garmin Alpha. According to the Garmin Field Rep, most of those methods/theories are technically only one step removed from being enabled. Much like the four-wheel drive feature on your truck, it can be turned on and off as needed from the driver’s seat while the vehicle is in use. Remove the drive shaft going to the front wheels, however, and you now have a feature that is disabled and will not function.

Q: What is the current policy on handlers carrying the Alpha during the hunt?

A: The current policy is that the handheld may not be carried because of the capable controlling features. Just like any controlling only system, such as the Tri-Tronics Trash Breaker, the Alpha must be left in the vehicle. The only difference is that UKC has provided for the Alpha to be turned on and used during a time out.

Q: Has any consideration been given for the Alpha, as it currently is, to be carried during the hunt?

A: UKC would love to allow the Alpha to be carried; however, the toning feature creates our biggest concern in that a handler could, in fact, control another handler’s tone-trained dog during the hunt. While we are aware that the majority would not get involved in any such activities, it’s the ones that would use it as an advantage to benefit themselves that spoil it for everyone else. It’s easy to suggest that we deal with those who get caught in such activity. The problem is, how are you really going to prove they used it? A treed dog comes back to its handler once, twice, or three times during the hunt? The only thing you’re proving is that the dog came back. And having it happen one time to a handler that otherwise thinks their use should be allowed would very likely change their opinion on it in a minute. Regardless, the UKC is interested in continuous feedback from the hunters on this topic. The current policy on the Alpha is not one to create any hardships or unfair advantage to Garmin or any handler using this system. It is simply a policy that protects the other handlers in the manner as described. Another good reason to pay attention to the checklists read off by event officials for any changes, including should anything change where the Alpha is concerned.

Q: Why are the current Telemetry Rules not included on the scorecard?

A: The Coonhound Rulebook is updated every three years. As a result of the testing and homework done, we are fairly confident in the rules as published; however, we are interested in improving them and being able to do that should it become necessary to make adjustments. Not being bound by a rulebook allows us that avenue. Instead, we chose the route of this column, the UKC website and event officials as the source for those rules including any changes that might be necessary down the road. This is a good reason for handlers to pay attention to the Master of Hounds checklists because it is a good avenue for us to get the word out on any changes.

Q: The new telemetry rules tell us the do’s and don’ts, but what happens if a handler breaks one of these rules? Are they scratched?

A: Dogs may be scratched under the following condition. Telemetry Rule #4 gives the judge the authority to scratch a handler for not adhering to a judge’s warning when it is deemed to be interfering with another handler’s ability to listen for their dog. That rule was included mostly with regard to those using the beep, beep telemetry systems. The beeping noises could certainly become annoying and/or interfere with another handler trying to listen for their dog. Most GPS type systems have volume control or a mute feature that should allow the user to easily eliminate any system noise.

Otherwise, Rule 6(I) deals with controlling devices and gives the judge the authority to scratch a handler for using a controlling device during the hunt. Handlers must be aware that controlling a dog during a hunt, other than as outlined under Rule 17, is a barring offense and should be reported to UKC as a Misconduct.

Q: What about the handlers disabling the alerts that sounds on the handheld every time a dog stops or quits moving for a period of time when out hunting?

A: Muting those alerts would be a courteous move on the part of the handler. Otherwise, they would be annoying to other cast members.

__________________
"PROUD SPONSOR OF BREAST CANCER AWEARNESS"

"Tell the truth the first time and you won't have to remember what you said!!!"


"25 years and still breeding coonhound to coonhound. Our goal is to bred yesteryears hound back into today's hounds"

"Remember the next time you go hunting take a child"

HOME OF THE RED WHITE AND BLUES


Please visit our website at the following link..

http://plainenglishkennel.weebly.com/ [/url]

E-mail us...
plainenglishjr@yahoo.com


PLAIN ENGLISH KENNEL EST. 1989

Join us on Facebook click on link below

https://m.facebook.com/plainenglish.kennel

HOME OF OUR VERY OWN

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES OL' BLU

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES JR

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S TAMMY

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES SUE

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES PEARL

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S WHITE MT DEW

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S FLOSIE

UKC NITECH AKC 'PR' HARD WOOD PEPPER

WV BACK COUNTRY BOB - (Black and Tan Cur)

Our Co-Owned Hounds

UKC 'PR' Given's Plain English Lil' Blue w/Chad Given

AND REMEMBER "KEEP'EM ENGLISH"

*Proud Member of UEB&FA, SEA, BRAXTON CO.CHA, Mud River Coon Club Inc. Pocahontas Nicholas CHA*
Junior Cartwright (304) 575-4495 cell

We Use And Recommend BLAZER & TRI-TRONICS NIGHT RAZOR LIGHTS, TRI-TRONICS, OLT SQUALLERS, INNOTEK & GARMIN 320 TRACKING SYSTEMS & PURINA DOG FEED, MUCK BOOTS DAN CHAPS


OUR RED FERN GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN CHAMPIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS...

R.I.P. UKC NITECH PKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S HARDTIME HANK 5/10/04 - 6/23/14

R.I.P. UKC GRCH NITECH & AKC CGCH RANSOM'S BAM 7/23/05 - 01/06/14

R.I.P.2011-2013 PERFORMANCE SIRE
UKC NITECH GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' MADDY GEES ROOFUS W/1-win towards GRAND!!! 8/21/2006-12/31/2012

R.I.P. UKC NKC AKC (TRIPLE) NITE CH CH 'PR' HAFA ADAI GIN "GINGER"

R.I.P. UKC CH 'PR' HALL'S BIG WHEEL

R.I.P. UKC NITE CH 'PR' DARK MTN CRANKIN' ROCK

R.I.P. CH 'PR' DARK HOLLOW TREE SLAMIN' BETTY

R.I.P. UKC GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' WELL KEPT SECRET

UKC CH 'PR' MAGNIFICENT MAGGIE

R.I.P UKC GRNITECH 'PR' BROWNS GAULEY RIVER DAN

"THEY ARE IN OUR THOUGHT'S AT EVERY TREE"

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Old Post 03-04-2014 12:29 AM
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cartwright
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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: HUNTERS HAVEN, WV
Posts: 3541

Q & A_
Posted on 03/06/2014 in_The Coonhound Advisor

“Yes, I See It” – “Oops, That’s Not a Coon”
Cast A: All dogs are declared treed. The cast starts shining and right away they see eyes in the tree. All cast members agreed, “Yes, we see it.” However, after they had all agreed they saw it, one member throws a bright light up there and sees it is a possum instead of what they thought were coon eyes. Since they all agreed they saw it, is it considered scored and over with regardless?

Cast B: Three-dog cast. Two dogs are left in the cast toward the end of the hunt. Both dogs fall treed but are split from each other on separate trees. The three members shine Dog A’s tree. After a little while, the judge says, “Here-ee is”. The second cast member comes over and says, “Yep, I see it.”

The third cast member comes over and throws a bright light up there and says, “That’s nothing more than a knot on the limb, it’s not a coon.” After taking another look, the second cast member agrees that it is simply a knot and not a coon. Can a cast member change his mind after initially having said he sees it?

A: Most of us who have hunted long enough have been in situations like those described where at first glance your initial thought was, “Yeah, I see it,” and verbally say so. Upon further examination, you realize it’s not what you initially thought it was after all. The basic question in either situation is; can a handler change his initial scoring vote after having verbally said something to the effect that he or she saw it?

To be fair in scoring situations properly as they should be scored, like the situations described above, UKC maintains that a tree is not considered to be officially scored until majority of the cast members are satisfied with their vote. This doesn’t mean you can vote one way at the tree and then vote another way at the clubhouse. You must obviously make your decision at the tree. If we were to allow plus points on off game or knots on tree limbs simply because of initial first reactions or petty technicalities, then something is terribly wrong.

Coons That Can’t Be Scored

A caller recently was describing a high-scoring cast in which he recently participated. He made it a point to assure me that he personally saw every coon, even though he was not the cast winner. Following that, he told me that he wasn’t sure if the way they had treed them was exactly right or not. Upon further questioning, he described one drop where the cast saw a coon cross the road and go up a tree. Allegedly, the cast, which is now down to one dog and two cast members, walked the dog up to the tree, unsnapped him, struck and treed him, and let him tree for five minutes. The reasoning this was thought acceptable was because the scorecard did not prohibit it.

Then, while working an event the next weekend, I was asked when it became permissible to score a coon in a live trap? I was thinking, you’ve got to be kidding me. Apparently this was done at a UKC licensed hunt recently. A live trap is not a place of refuge for a coon, and coon cannot be scored in live traps. This has been printed in the Advisor several times over the years. You have to delete those points. It would be convenient, though, to be able to place coons in live traps at all my hunting spots. You could rack up a really good score that way, couldn’t you?

Scorecard historians will remember when the scorecard said in Rule 1 that hounds must be free cast in search of wild game. I can’t remember when it was removed from the scorecard, or why. Maybe because it’s so darn obvious that can’t turn your dog loose at a tree that you know is harboring a raccoon.

At any rate, preceding Rule 1 is a statement that refers to the Coonhound Advisor column as official interpretation of UKC rules and policies, so let’s make this official right now. All hounds in UKC licensed events must be free cast in search of wild game. That means no enclosures, that means no turning loose as in the example above, that means you can’t score coons in live traps or in a cage behind someone’s barn, it means you can’t score dead coons, it means you can’t turn coons loose for the dogs, it means that the coon must be seen in the tree your treeing on. It’s always been permissible to turn loose on coon crossing the road so, for the time being, we’ll stick with it.

All this should go without saying, but, believe it or not, I’ve had to deal with every one of the situations mentioned above in the last couple years because someone said it wasn’t prohibited in the rules. Now it is.

Retrieving Dogs During a Time Out

Q: Timeout has been called during the hunt. Who, if anyone, may assist the handlers in retrieving their hounds?

A: The idea that only the handler of the dog may retrieve the dog without assistance from any other cast member(s) is a misconception. Helping a cast-mate retrieve their dog during a called time out is certainly encouraged when needed and is simply a form of good sportsmanship.

The one thing to keep in mind is that a handler in the cast assisting another cast member in the retrieval of his dog, even though his dog may already be in the box ready to continue, would also fall victim to Rule 6(f) should the hour expire before returning to the designated spot. A lot could be discussed on this topic, but it’s one that simply requires common sense and one where sportsmanship will go a long way.

Authority of a Scorekeeper

Q: This next question comes from the state of Texas, where a Master of Hounds is concerned about the authority of a scorekeeper or the misconceptions thereof. How about a little clarification in this regard?

A: Rule 11(a) references the non-hunting scorekeeper. It states that {Scorecards to be carried by judge (or non-hunting scorekeeper if all cast members agree) and must be scored in plain view of all.} First, it must be agreed upon by all cast members to allow an individual, usually a spectator or non-hunting guide, to write down the scores as they are called. A scorekeeper does make it easier for some judges in allowing them to concentrate more on what’s going on with the dogs in the woods and not be caught filling in strike and tree calls when there’s something going on that might require the judge’s full attention.

A non-hunting scorekeeper has no more authority in the cast than any other spectator on the cast. A scorekeeper may not help shine trees nor do they have a vote in voting situations. They have no say so as to how anything should be scored. If the scorekeeper has any questions such as close strike or tree calls, they would refer to the judge of the cast to make that decision. The scorekeeper simply writes down scores as they are given them; nothing more and nothing less.

Water/Place of Refuge

Q: The dogs in a cast run a good track and start treeing or baying, and eventually they are all declared treed. We walk in and find the dogs are on the edge of a river baying from the bank. No tree or hole there, they’re just looking out across the river baying. The river is a good 100 to 200 yards across. It is deep, wide and roaring with spring rains. Can this be considered a place of refuge since it seems impossible for a dog to even try to swim across under these conditions?

A: Anytime dogs tree other than on a tree, and in doing so are holding the game, it is considered a place of refuge; unless of course, they have the game caught on the ground. Understandably, it seems next to impossible for any dog to swim across the river as described, but a body of water, whether it be a lake a mile wide or a river that has a current too strong to cross, will not hold the coon; therefore, may not be considered a place of refuge. UKC maintains any bodies of water are considered part of the terrain regardless of width, current or otherwise. In your situation, the rules allow no other option other than minus the dogs. Sounds like the coon won this one!

__________________
"PROUD SPONSOR OF BREAST CANCER AWEARNESS"

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"25 years and still breeding coonhound to coonhound. Our goal is to bred yesteryears hound back into today's hounds"

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UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES OL' BLU

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES JR

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S TAMMY

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES SUE

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES PEARL

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S WHITE MT DEW

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S FLOSIE

UKC NITECH AKC 'PR' HARD WOOD PEPPER

WV BACK COUNTRY BOB - (Black and Tan Cur)

Our Co-Owned Hounds

UKC 'PR' Given's Plain English Lil' Blue w/Chad Given

AND REMEMBER "KEEP'EM ENGLISH"

*Proud Member of UEB&FA, SEA, BRAXTON CO.CHA, Mud River Coon Club Inc. Pocahontas Nicholas CHA*
Junior Cartwright (304) 575-4495 cell

We Use And Recommend BLAZER & TRI-TRONICS NIGHT RAZOR LIGHTS, TRI-TRONICS, OLT SQUALLERS, INNOTEK & GARMIN 320 TRACKING SYSTEMS & PURINA DOG FEED, MUCK BOOTS DAN CHAPS


OUR RED FERN GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN CHAMPIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS...

R.I.P. UKC NITECH PKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S HARDTIME HANK 5/10/04 - 6/23/14

R.I.P. UKC GRCH NITECH & AKC CGCH RANSOM'S BAM 7/23/05 - 01/06/14

R.I.P.2011-2013 PERFORMANCE SIRE
UKC NITECH GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' MADDY GEES ROOFUS W/1-win towards GRAND!!! 8/21/2006-12/31/2012

R.I.P. UKC NKC AKC (TRIPLE) NITE CH CH 'PR' HAFA ADAI GIN "GINGER"

R.I.P. UKC CH 'PR' HALL'S BIG WHEEL

R.I.P. UKC NITE CH 'PR' DARK MTN CRANKIN' ROCK

R.I.P. CH 'PR' DARK HOLLOW TREE SLAMIN' BETTY

R.I.P. UKC GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' WELL KEPT SECRET

UKC CH 'PR' MAGNIFICENT MAGGIE

R.I.P UKC GRNITECH 'PR' BROWNS GAULEY RIVER DAN

"THEY ARE IN OUR THOUGHT'S AT EVERY TREE"

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Tim Trone
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Location: havana florida
Posts: 1029

What would be real nice is if people would actually read this instead of assuming their right. Along with the rule book.

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cartwright
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Posts: 3541

Slam Payout with No Cast Winners
Posted on 04/09/2014 in_The Coonhound Advisor

Slam Payout with No Cast Winners
Q: The club had a UKC Slam Event where no casts came in with plus points. How is the prize money distributed?

A: UKC Slam Events pay out 55 percent of the entry fees to its winners. First, each cast winner who had a total score of plus points receives its entry fee back. The remaining prize monies are paid out to the four highest-scoring cast winners who, with a majority vote, may opt to split it equally. Or they may hunt it off in a one-hour hunt where the winner will take 40 percent, second 30 percent, third 20 percent and fourth 10 percent. If there are less than four dogs who had a total score of plus points a breakdown form found in the Hunt Packet breaks down any such scenarios.

It is never an option for the club to retain any portion of the prize money, even when they had no cast winners with plus points. When the club has no plus point cast winners, they should simply pay out that 55 percent equally to the owner of each dog that was entered in the event.

Example: Using the scenario of 16 dogs entered, at $30 per entry fee, results in a payout of $264. That amount is divided by 16, resulting in a payout of $16.50 to the owner of each dog that was entered. Ironically, the payout to each dog would always result in $16.50 each regardless of the amount of dogs entered. In a $20 entry fee event it would be slightly less obviously or, in either case, just better than half or 55% of the fee they paid to enter.

Entering a Dog on Puppy Papers as Conditional

Q: Is it acceptable to enter a dog not yet permanently registered (puppy papers only) as a Conditional Entry?

A: A dog must be permanently registered before it may be entered in any UKC Licensed Event. Entry takers may never know that a dog being entered as Conditional is or isn’t permanently registered. That’s okay. They don’t need to know. That responsibility lies with the individual entering the dog. A dog entered as Conditional, but not yet permanently registered on the day of the event, is considered an ineligible entry. Any placements it may have earned at the event are not awarded.

Puppy papers are merely an application for the owner to permanently register the dog. If you’ve ever noticed, at the very top of your puppy papers it states: Application for Permanent Registration. When a Litter Owner registers a litter of pups, he/she receives the exact amount of papers for each male and female in the litter. Although each puppy paper application has a UKC number on it, the owner randomly assigns one of those papers to each pup. The owner of that pup then marks the correct coloring, gives the pup a name, etc., and sends it in to be permanently registered. At that time the dog has an identity and record at UKC and may participate in UKC Licensed Events (must be six months of age to participate in Bench Shows). Otherwise, UKC would not have verification of which dog in the litter is being entered if dog’s not permanently registered (puppy papers) were allowed to enter in Licensed Events.

Dogs Purchased From Barred Individuals

Q: May a new owner who purchased a dog from a barred or suspended individual enter that dog in UKC Licensed Event prior to the dog being transferred into the new owner’s name?

A: One of the basic rules for barred or suspended individuals is that dogs registered to them may not be entered in any UKC Licensed Events. Until/unless such a dog is registered to another individual, it may not be entered in any event. That means the dog must be transferred to the new owner before it is registered to anyone else other than the barred individual. They are considered ineligible entries in any UKC event until registered to an individual who is not barred.

Time Frame Allotted for Handler to Sign Scorecard at Clubhouse

Q: Rule 13 now allows a handler who failed to sign the scorecard in the woods to sign it at the clubhouse in view of the Master of Hounds or Hunt Director. The question is, what time frame is allowed in which the handler may sign at the clubhouse?

A: Great question. A handler shall be given the opportunity to sign the scorecard until; whichever of the following two items comes first:

1. The deadline to return all scorecards.

2. Immediately following the return of all scorecards.

This is a very simple and hunter-friendly time frame that makes good sense. Strict entry and scorecard return deadlines were put in place to allow officials to proceed forward at a certain time. This policy subscribes to that same theory. It makes sense to give the handler the opportunity until the point when the official is ready to move forward with filling out the event result paperwork. It makes no good sense to have a 3 a.m. deadline and give the handler until then when all the scorecards had been returned by 2 a.m.

So at the time of whichever of the two items comes first, any handlers who have not yet signed their scorecard will result in their dog being scratched at that time. Finally, officials should not be subjected to the responsibility of contacting any such handler that may have left the club grounds for whatever reason.

__________________
"PROUD SPONSOR OF BREAST CANCER AWEARNESS"

"Tell the truth the first time and you won't have to remember what you said!!!"


"25 years and still breeding coonhound to coonhound. Our goal is to bred yesteryears hound back into today's hounds"

"Remember the next time you go hunting take a child"

HOME OF THE RED WHITE AND BLUES


Please visit our website at the following link..

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E-mail us...
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PLAIN ENGLISH KENNEL EST. 1989

Join us on Facebook click on link below

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HOME OF OUR VERY OWN

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES OL' BLU

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES JR

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S TAMMY

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES SUE

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES PEARL

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S WHITE MT DEW

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S FLOSIE

UKC NITECH AKC 'PR' HARD WOOD PEPPER

WV BACK COUNTRY BOB - (Black and Tan Cur)

Our Co-Owned Hounds

UKC 'PR' Given's Plain English Lil' Blue w/Chad Given

AND REMEMBER "KEEP'EM ENGLISH"

*Proud Member of UEB&FA, SEA, BRAXTON CO.CHA, Mud River Coon Club Inc. Pocahontas Nicholas CHA*
Junior Cartwright (304) 575-4495 cell

We Use And Recommend BLAZER & TRI-TRONICS NIGHT RAZOR LIGHTS, TRI-TRONICS, OLT SQUALLERS, INNOTEK & GARMIN 320 TRACKING SYSTEMS & PURINA DOG FEED, MUCK BOOTS DAN CHAPS


OUR RED FERN GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN CHAMPIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS...

R.I.P. UKC NITECH PKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S HARDTIME HANK 5/10/04 - 6/23/14

R.I.P. UKC GRCH NITECH & AKC CGCH RANSOM'S BAM 7/23/05 - 01/06/14

R.I.P.2011-2013 PERFORMANCE SIRE
UKC NITECH GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' MADDY GEES ROOFUS W/1-win towards GRAND!!! 8/21/2006-12/31/2012

R.I.P. UKC NKC AKC (TRIPLE) NITE CH CH 'PR' HAFA ADAI GIN "GINGER"

R.I.P. UKC CH 'PR' HALL'S BIG WHEEL

R.I.P. UKC NITE CH 'PR' DARK MTN CRANKIN' ROCK

R.I.P. CH 'PR' DARK HOLLOW TREE SLAMIN' BETTY

R.I.P. UKC GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' WELL KEPT SECRET

UKC CH 'PR' MAGNIFICENT MAGGIE

R.I.P UKC GRNITECH 'PR' BROWNS GAULEY RIVER DAN

"THEY ARE IN OUR THOUGHT'S AT EVERY TREE"

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cartwright
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Posts: 3541

The Eight Minute Clock and Telemetry
Posted on 05/08/2014 in_The Coonhound Advisor

Q: In a four-dog cast, three dogs got treed approximately 900 yards ahead of the cast, while Dog D continued trailing a separate track off to their right. After scoring the tree, we could not hear Dog D so the cast walked back to the spot where we last heard Dog D. At that spot is where the judge started the eight-minute clock on the dog. After listening for a little bit and still not hearing the dog, the handler of Dog D looked at his telemetry and told the cast they needed to walk in the direction towards him. So the cast followed him, with three hounds leash locked, for nearly seven minutes to the top of a hill where we could hear the dog that was now treed. The handler treed Dog D. The questions are: 1) should the handler have been allowed to use his telemetry to see where his dog was in that situation; and 2) then make the cast walk towards the dog when the eight minute clock was running?
A: Let’s throw out the Garmin use part for a minute. In the past it was protocol to go back to the last spot you heard Dog D before starting the eight-minute clock. Although you won’t find any such rule in the rulebook, UKC has always supported this courtesy. Common sense suggests it is the fairest and right thing to do when you may have walked out of hearing of that trailing dog due to the scoring of a tree. However, if after scoring the tree the dog out on trail remains within hearing distance from the tree just scored, the eight-minute clock should be started from there.

UKC has always allowed handlers the opportunity to use their eight minutes, within reason, when their dog may have trailed out of hearing in such a scenario. Sometimes that meant walking in the direction he assumes his hound may be in or walking to a better vantage point to listen for the dog.

Enter the use of telemetry. The handler is well within his rights to check his telemetry on Dog D after scoring the tree. He may see that the dog is within hearing range from the scored tree. If so, the eight-minute clock should start from there. If not then the cast should go the last spot they heard the dog before the time is started.

Yes, this scenario is one where the use of telemetry could be an advantage for the handler. In the same token, it could also very well be an advantage to the rest of the cast. By my calculations, the cast walking 900 yards to score a tree in the scenario given is over a half mile. Dog D could be anywhere by the time the tree was scored. The purpose of a nite hunt is to score dogs accordingly. Sticking our heads in the sand while the clock is running and refusing to make an attempt to score Dog D contradicts the purpose of nite hunts. Using common sense on when and where to start the clock, and all handlers being reasonable based on the situation at hand, will go a long way.

Looking at Handheld when Declaring Dog Treed

Q: May a handler be looking at the handheld of his Garmin when calling his dog treed?

A: This is the most frequently asked question regarding telemetry use that is called in to the UKC office. My response is always: Yes they may look at their telemetry anytime during the hunt, followed by this question, “Was the dog ‘treeing’ when that handler declared it treed?” To date we have not yet had one caller that suggested the dog was not treeing when they called it treed in such a manner. Only in the case where the dog is not actually treeing is when we would have an issue. And it would be an issue that we can easily resolve.

Here are three things to keep in mind:

• The judge shall make his decisions based on what he sees and hears and what is based on sound judgment.

• A dog must be heard “opening” before a strike call may be accepted.

• A dog must be heard “treeing” before a tree call may be accepted.

Even though the handler may have been looking at his handheld at the time he declared his dog treed, all that is required from the judge is to acknowledge that the dog is in fact treeing. If so, the judge awards the available position. If the dog is not treeing, the judge should not accept the call. Is this an advantage to a handler? Depends on who you ask and their knowledge of the systems being used. Regardless, nothing has changed when it comes to scoring dogs on trailing and treeing raccoons.

Telemetry Rule Clarifications

Rule 1. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL TELEMETRY BE USED TO DETERMINE THE SCORING OF ANY DOG(S).

Clarification: “Scoring” is interpreted as using telemetry to determine: a) whether or not dogs moved from where they were called treed at; b) dog declared struck is really the one that opened; c) the dog that left tree was with A and B or on a separate tree; d) stationary rule, etc. etc. type situations. Basically, if you are awarding plus or minus to a dog based on telemetry, then you would be using telemetry to determine scoring. Seeing/knowing where a dog is while the eight-minute clock is running, is not considered “scoring” a dog.

Rule 3. At no time may a handler demand the cast walk in the direction of a hound that has not been heard opening. The judge, or majority of cast when hunting judge is used, may agree to walk in that direction.

Clarification: Dogs not heard opening are those that have not been declared struck. A dog that has the eight minute clock working on them is a dog that has been heard opening. A cast may not agree to walk towards the out of pocket dog(s) that has/have not been declared struck if in doing so they would be walking out of hearing of the dog(s) that is/are declared struck.

Rule 4. When considering the use of telemetry during the hunt the handler may not interfere with any handler’s ability to listen for their dog. This to be rigidly enforced. Handlers not adhering after having been warned of such by the judge; shall result in their dog being scratched from the cast.

Clarification: This rule was implemented to keep handlers from interfering with other handlers in the cast who are trying to listen to their dogs. The simplest solution would be for the handler to turn the volume off on their handheld. Another use could be where handler chat of “my dog is so and so” that interferes with another handlers ability to listen for their dog. A judge does not have the authority to tell a handler they may not use their telemetry. They may only warn them for interfering and if they do not turn it off or quit chatter immediately “while others are trying to listen”, their dog is to be scratched. It does not mean that for the rest of the night the warned handler’s handheld must be turned off or they cannot say another word about the whereabouts of their hound at a different time during the course of the hunt. Scratching a dog for interfering with other handlers only applies when they are trying to listen for the purpose of declaring dogs struck or treed or the judge is in the process of “judging” a dog in the cast.

Bells Permissible

Q: Is it permissible to use bells on coonhounds during the course of a nite hunt?

A: Yes, they may be used on coonhounds during a hunt. Any previous restrictions against the use of bells were removed when the use of telemetry during the hunt was implemented.

__________________
"PROUD SPONSOR OF BREAST CANCER AWEARNESS"

"Tell the truth the first time and you won't have to remember what you said!!!"


"25 years and still breeding coonhound to coonhound. Our goal is to bred yesteryears hound back into today's hounds"

"Remember the next time you go hunting take a child"

HOME OF THE RED WHITE AND BLUES


Please visit our website at the following link..

http://plainenglishkennel.weebly.com/ [/url]

E-mail us...
plainenglishjr@yahoo.com


PLAIN ENGLISH KENNEL EST. 1989

Join us on Facebook click on link below

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HOME OF OUR VERY OWN

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES OL' BLU

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES JR

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S TAMMY

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES SUE

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES PEARL

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S WHITE MT DEW

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S FLOSIE

UKC NITECH AKC 'PR' HARD WOOD PEPPER

WV BACK COUNTRY BOB - (Black and Tan Cur)

Our Co-Owned Hounds

UKC 'PR' Given's Plain English Lil' Blue w/Chad Given

AND REMEMBER "KEEP'EM ENGLISH"

*Proud Member of UEB&FA, SEA, BRAXTON CO.CHA, Mud River Coon Club Inc. Pocahontas Nicholas CHA*
Junior Cartwright (304) 575-4495 cell

We Use And Recommend BLAZER & TRI-TRONICS NIGHT RAZOR LIGHTS, TRI-TRONICS, OLT SQUALLERS, INNOTEK & GARMIN 320 TRACKING SYSTEMS & PURINA DOG FEED, MUCK BOOTS DAN CHAPS


OUR RED FERN GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN CHAMPIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS...

R.I.P. UKC NITECH PKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S HARDTIME HANK 5/10/04 - 6/23/14

R.I.P. UKC GRCH NITECH & AKC CGCH RANSOM'S BAM 7/23/05 - 01/06/14

R.I.P.2011-2013 PERFORMANCE SIRE
UKC NITECH GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' MADDY GEES ROOFUS W/1-win towards GRAND!!! 8/21/2006-12/31/2012

R.I.P. UKC NKC AKC (TRIPLE) NITE CH CH 'PR' HAFA ADAI GIN "GINGER"

R.I.P. UKC CH 'PR' HALL'S BIG WHEEL

R.I.P. UKC NITE CH 'PR' DARK MTN CRANKIN' ROCK

R.I.P. CH 'PR' DARK HOLLOW TREE SLAMIN' BETTY

R.I.P. UKC GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' WELL KEPT SECRET

UKC CH 'PR' MAGNIFICENT MAGGIE

R.I.P UKC GRNITECH 'PR' BROWNS GAULEY RIVER DAN

"THEY ARE IN OUR THOUGHT'S AT EVERY TREE"

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Refresher Course Topics
Posted on 06/04/2014 in_The Coonhound Advisor

This month’s column features a couple refresher course topics. Part of the reasoning for them is to also hopefully allow for a better understanding of the answers to one or more of other included topics.

Not Accepting a Call - Refresher Course

Q: Do judges have the authority to not accept a strike or tree call by a handler?

A: Yes they do have the authority to not accept a call. Whenever a handler strikes his dog, be it a strike or a tree call, and the dog is not heard opening or treeing, then the call shall not be accepted. There is no penalty applied. Remember, telemetry may not be used to make any such determination.

When Coon May Be Scored - Refresher Course

Q: What are the two things that must happen before a coon in a tree may be scored?

A: 1) All dogs treeing must be handled; and 2) the shining time must be started. A coon may only be scored if seen by the majority of the cast during the allotted ten minutes of shining time. This prohibits the tree from being searched or shined on the way in, etc. If less than a majority of the cast see the coon before time expires, then points may not be plussed regardless of the majority seeing the coon after shine time expires.

Minus Tree Points - Refresher Course

Q: What specific situations result in a dog’s tree points being minused, that do not involve the scoring of a tree (after shining the tree)?

A: There are several as follows.

• If a dog that is declared treed leaves the tree or whatever it was treed on or in, regardless of any reason. The rules do not support any exceptions. This would also include what is referred to as milling.

• If the two minute clock gets a dog per Rule 4(h) {at least one of the dogs declared treed must bark at least once every two minutes until cast arrives}.

• A dog that leaves tree and goes back on trail.

• Dogs declared treed after the tree is closed result in the call being accepted as a split tree. If that dog is with the other dogs on the closed tree its tree points are minused (for leaving) regardless of whether or not it was ever on a separate tree. If the dog is on the closed tree it now is a dog treeing but not declared treed on this tree. The final scoring of this dog is subject to how this closed tree is scored.

• If a handler trees the wrong dog the available position is awarded and minused. This rule applies to striking or treeing the wrong dog and results in the dog being scratched on second offense.

There is a situation where tree points are frequently minused incorrectly. That is when a handler declares a dog treed that is not or cannot be heard treeing. They incorrectly accept the call and start the two-minute clock on the dog. The two-minute clock only applies to dogs that are declared treed and were considered to have in fact been, at some point, in the act of treeing. The correct procedure is for the judge to not accept a tree call if the dog is not treeing or cannot be heard treeing. The same applies to strike positions. You shouldn’t take the strike call and start the eight-minute clock.

Dogs Declared Treed That End Up Catching Coon

Q: All four dogs in a cast are declared treed. The dogs were all on a hollow tree that had a hole in the bottom of it. While the cast is looking on, but before the dogs could be handled, one of the dogs sticks his head inside the hole and pulls out a coon. How is this tree scored?

A: It has always been UKC’s position that anytime dogs make contact with the coon, whether they pull it out of a hole at the bottom of a tree, a log on the ground, a hole in the ground, or any place of refuge, you score it as coon caught. In accordance with Rule 3(c), you plus the dogs strike points only. Even though you won’t find a rule in the deleted section to cover such unique situations, it’s also UKC’s position that any tree points originally awarded are deleted. Circling the tree points is not an option because it’s not a tree, hole or place of refuge situation anymore. Minusing their tree points is not an option because the dogs technically did not leave their tree.

Cast Sees Coon Bail Out of Tree

Q: All four dogs in a cast are declared treed. When the cast arrives, but before any dogs can be handled, the coon bails out of the small tree the dogs were treed on and takes off down through the woods. The dogs all take off after it but no dog makes contact with it before it climbs up a different tree. The dogs all tree where it was seen climbing. How is this situation handled?

A: We have to recognize that this situation is different from the one previous (Dogs Declared Treed That End Up Catching Coon). Here the dogs all left the tree and went after the coon after it bailed out. You certainly can’t fault the dogs for that. The rules don’t allow for anything other than to minus their tree points for leaving tree. Yes, it is considered a bad break. However, before we decide there needs to be exceptions for certain unique situations, we should consider all the other situations we could open ourselves up to if we had such a rule.

To answer the question on how to handle the situation, you have no alternatives other than to minus each dog’s tree points for leaving tree. All four tree positions are open again. The handlers should call their dogs in the order they tree on the next tree where the coon went up. Then score that tree accordingly. Remember, just because you may have seen the coon climbing that second tree you must still handle dogs, start your shining time and the majority see the coon in that allotted shining time.

__________________
"PROUD SPONSOR OF BREAST CANCER AWEARNESS"

"Tell the truth the first time and you won't have to remember what you said!!!"


"25 years and still breeding coonhound to coonhound. Our goal is to bred yesteryears hound back into today's hounds"

"Remember the next time you go hunting take a child"

HOME OF THE RED WHITE AND BLUES


Please visit our website at the following link..

http://plainenglishkennel.weebly.com/ [/url]

E-mail us...
plainenglishjr@yahoo.com


PLAIN ENGLISH KENNEL EST. 1989

Join us on Facebook click on link below

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HOME OF OUR VERY OWN

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES OL' BLU

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES JR

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S TAMMY

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES SUE

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES PEARL

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S WHITE MT DEW

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S FLOSIE

UKC NITECH AKC 'PR' HARD WOOD PEPPER

WV BACK COUNTRY BOB - (Black and Tan Cur)

Our Co-Owned Hounds

UKC 'PR' Given's Plain English Lil' Blue w/Chad Given

AND REMEMBER "KEEP'EM ENGLISH"

*Proud Member of UEB&FA, SEA, BRAXTON CO.CHA, Mud River Coon Club Inc. Pocahontas Nicholas CHA*
Junior Cartwright (304) 575-4495 cell

We Use And Recommend BLAZER & TRI-TRONICS NIGHT RAZOR LIGHTS, TRI-TRONICS, OLT SQUALLERS, INNOTEK & GARMIN 320 TRACKING SYSTEMS & PURINA DOG FEED, MUCK BOOTS DAN CHAPS


OUR RED FERN GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN CHAMPIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS...

R.I.P. UKC NITECH PKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S HARDTIME HANK 5/10/04 - 6/23/14

R.I.P. UKC GRCH NITECH & AKC CGCH RANSOM'S BAM 7/23/05 - 01/06/14

R.I.P.2011-2013 PERFORMANCE SIRE
UKC NITECH GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' MADDY GEES ROOFUS W/1-win towards GRAND!!! 8/21/2006-12/31/2012

R.I.P. UKC NKC AKC (TRIPLE) NITE CH CH 'PR' HAFA ADAI GIN "GINGER"

R.I.P. UKC CH 'PR' HALL'S BIG WHEEL

R.I.P. UKC NITE CH 'PR' DARK MTN CRANKIN' ROCK

R.I.P. CH 'PR' DARK HOLLOW TREE SLAMIN' BETTY

R.I.P. UKC GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' WELL KEPT SECRET

UKC CH 'PR' MAGNIFICENT MAGGIE

R.I.P UKC GRNITECH 'PR' BROWNS GAULEY RIVER DAN

"THEY ARE IN OUR THOUGHT'S AT EVERY TREE"

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cartwright
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2008
Location: HUNTERS HAVEN, WV
Posts: 3541

Hunt Directors' Responsibilities

Posted on 12/15/2014 in The Coonhound Advisor.


This month’s column is based solely on the topic of Hunt Directors and their responsibilities. Unfortunately, it’s not difficult to find certain clubs abusing the intent of using the HD format option. I have used fake names in playing out the following scenario. It’s one that I know all too well how many of our hunters are being witness to. Though you might also find a little humor in it, understand that UKC does expect clubs to use a competent individual when using the Hunt Director format. Thanks, to the majority of clubs who do conduct their events using qualified individuals to serve as their event officials.
Hunt Directors Responsibilities

Scenario: Names have been changed to protect the innocent guilty. Sam McDonald is a good old boy who enjoys coming out to the club and shooting the breeze with all the hunters. He’s never owned a coonhound, but has on a few occasions went out and listened to his buddies dogs run. Sam has, however, been a great asset to the club because of his expertise behind the grill and has been their event cook for years. And by the way, makes some of the best burgers you ever demolished! On this night, Sam is once again back in the kitchen flipping those burgers, keeping those tenderloins in the fryer, and accepting any compliments with a smile that might be aired his way.

Joe Brown, who in the past served as the club’s MOH, is in charge of taking all the entries. After the deadline to enter the event, Joe proceeds to drawing all the casts. Once completed, he then stands up and announces, “everyone’s attention please!” He reads the mandatory checklist announcing that the event is going to be run using the Hunt Director Format. Everything is fine and dandy, right? Let’s go on.

When Joe’s cast is called, he tells them to get ready and he’ll be out in a minute. A few of his cast-mates look at each other obviously a little confused. Jerry Smith, who is riding with Joe on their hunt, says nothing to Joe, however, during the course of their hunt he exchanges a few comments about it with another member of the cast still not quite sure if this is really legit or not.

As luck would have it, Joe’s dog wins the cast and they all exchange handshakes and two of the cast-mates head for home. When Joe and Jerry return to the clubhouse, they find several casts are already back as evident by the crowd gathered around checking out the scorecards laying on the desk. Joe walks up and sits down, pulls his glasses out and politely asks for the scorecards that a few interested fellars are looking at. The one fellar hands him the scorecard, then turns around and states for all to hear, “The other Nite Champion cast better have a good score or they might as well not come back in. Bad to the Bones Brandy is holding the high score so far with 650 plus!”

Joe takes the scorecard and looks it over, then makes note on the scorecard of when it was received. Wait a minute. How would he know what time it was returned? He wasn’t back yet when it came in!

Regardless, neither scorecard has any questions on them so all is good. As the scorecards continue to trickle in, Joe notes the time received on each one with several cast winners peering over his back at all the scores. Jerry goes to the kitchen and orders a burger and a coke from Mr. McDonald. While waiting, he re-lives their whole hunt with a buddy who is also at the kitchen window waiting on Mr. McDonald. They both get their grub and head out the door.

Finally, all the scorecards are back and Joe determines the placements and fills out the Hunt Report. Once it’s all filled out, he takes the report back to the kitchen where Mr. McDonald wipes his hands off on his apron and signs each win slip on the report and the front page with all the required information as the Hunt Director. Joe then announces all the winners and hands out the plaques.

The next day, Jerry Smith calls one of his buddies, and they discuss the issue of Joe hunting his dog when he was serving as the Hunt Director for the club. When Monday morning rolls around, Jerry calls the UKC office and explains to Allen Gingerich that the Hunt Director hunted his own dog in this hunt! He goes on to explain how the scorecards were left lying on the desk for anyone and everyone to review as they pleased until Joe Brown, the Hunt Director, returned from his hunt.

Allen Gingerich makes note of it at the UKC office and waits the week until the Event Report comes in. The report signifies that Sam McDonald is listed as the Hunt Director, and not Joe Brown, as alleged by the caller. Allen hangs his head in disappointment as he is immediately reminded how this is a case where the club has abused the intent of the Hunt Director Format.

UKC’s Position. First, Sam McDonald is not considered incapable of being a HD for the club, but we certainly wouldn’t know that if all he does is sign the paperwork at the end of the night. One thing we do know, the club is not willing to give up his expertise in the kitchen during the times he should be at the official’s table and fully involved in conducting the event.

The intent of the Hunt Director format is such that clubs only use individuals who have a complete understanding of, and are capable of the responsibilities required to serve in that capacity. No, they are not required to be knowledgeable of the nite hunt rules as they apply to the hunt, because they are not required to rule on any questions that come back. That, alone, should allow the club to utilize more individuals who have the capabilities required or can learn the responsibilities of a HD. It’s really not that difficult, and they aren’t forced to have to make any tough decisions. It’s pretty cut and dried for the most part.

An individual should be capable and knowledgeable of the following required responsibilities which are demanded when using the Hunt Director format.

1. Know and understand all MOH/HD guidelines as outlined in the rulebook. This covers everything from posting deadlines, required permits posted, acceptable forms of entry, how to properly draw judges and guides, reading the checklist relative to the event, etc. etc.

2. They must know and understand the importance of following deadline policies and any violations of such or otherwise might hold their club reliable and subject to loss of events.

3. When questions come back, they are required to know the procedures to resolve any issues such as setting up a panel of qualified individuals. They must know that the individual raising the question must post the complaint fee prior to setting up a panel etc. etc.

4. They must be the one who receives the scorecards and makes note of the time received on each scorecard. Check all the scores to make sure they are added up correctly. Then they must keep all scorecards confidential until all casts are back in or the deadline to return has expired as outlined in the rulebook.

5. They must know the proper procedures on how to place dogs in the event. How to resolve any tie-breaker issues.

6. They must know how to fill out the Event Report properly. Make sure all required signatures are in order. Make sure the number of entries in each category is recorded. Double check each report to make sure there are no mistakes.

If a club subscribes to the theory that the most important part for a HD is to sign the paperwork, then they’ll likely not be approved for the HD format much longer. Know that UKC is trying to help and make it easier for clubs by allowing them to use this format. We simply ask that clubs take it seriously, abide by the guidelines, and only use individuals who have a complete understanding of and are fully capable of the responsibilities of a Hunt Director. We believe that most clubs using this format are in fact using it as was intended and we appreciate that.

Our hunters deserve a qualified event official, whether it comes in the form of a Master of Hounds or Hunt Director, and not an official that is handling his dog in the hunt and having the cook sign off on all the paperwork.

__________________
"PROUD SPONSOR OF BREAST CANCER AWEARNESS"

"Tell the truth the first time and you won't have to remember what you said!!!"


"25 years and still breeding coonhound to coonhound. Our goal is to bred yesteryears hound back into today's hounds"

"Remember the next time you go hunting take a child"

HOME OF THE RED WHITE AND BLUES


Please visit our website at the following link..

http://plainenglishkennel.weebly.com/ [/url]

E-mail us...
plainenglishjr@yahoo.com


PLAIN ENGLISH KENNEL EST. 1989

Join us on Facebook click on link below

https://m.facebook.com/plainenglish.kennel

HOME OF OUR VERY OWN

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES OL' BLU

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES JR

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S TAMMY

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES SUE

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES PEARL

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S WHITE MT DEW

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S FLOSIE

UKC NITECH AKC 'PR' HARD WOOD PEPPER

WV BACK COUNTRY BOB - (Black and Tan Cur)

Our Co-Owned Hounds

UKC 'PR' Given's Plain English Lil' Blue w/Chad Given

AND REMEMBER "KEEP'EM ENGLISH"

*Proud Member of UEB&FA, SEA, BRAXTON CO.CHA, Mud River Coon Club Inc. Pocahontas Nicholas CHA*
Junior Cartwright (304) 575-4495 cell

We Use And Recommend BLAZER & TRI-TRONICS NIGHT RAZOR LIGHTS, TRI-TRONICS, OLT SQUALLERS, INNOTEK & GARMIN 320 TRACKING SYSTEMS & PURINA DOG FEED, MUCK BOOTS DAN CHAPS


OUR RED FERN GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN CHAMPIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS...

R.I.P. UKC NITECH PKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S HARDTIME HANK 5/10/04 - 6/23/14

R.I.P. UKC GRCH NITECH & AKC CGCH RANSOM'S BAM 7/23/05 - 01/06/14

R.I.P.2011-2013 PERFORMANCE SIRE
UKC NITECH GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' MADDY GEES ROOFUS W/1-win towards GRAND!!! 8/21/2006-12/31/2012

R.I.P. UKC NKC AKC (TRIPLE) NITE CH CH 'PR' HAFA ADAI GIN "GINGER"

R.I.P. UKC CH 'PR' HALL'S BIG WHEEL

R.I.P. UKC NITE CH 'PR' DARK MTN CRANKIN' ROCK

R.I.P. CH 'PR' DARK HOLLOW TREE SLAMIN' BETTY

R.I.P. UKC GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' WELL KEPT SECRET

UKC CH 'PR' MAGNIFICENT MAGGIE

R.I.P UKC GRNITECH 'PR' BROWNS GAULEY RIVER DAN

"THEY ARE IN OUR THOUGHT'S AT EVERY TREE"

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Old Post 01-24-2015 05:09 PM
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cartwright
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2008
Location: HUNTERS HAVEN, WV
Posts: 3541

I’m Not Hearing It!

Posted on 01/19/2015 in The Coonhound Advisor.


“I’m Not Hearing It”!

I’m thinking some of our Master of Hounds, and most of our competitors, would benefit from a quick discussion on the following topic. That being Masters of Hounds who refuse to listen to questions brought back into them.

This is a touchy subject, for sure. I believe that there are times when a Master of Hounds can politely and tactfully instruct the cast that they “have no question(s)”. A handler wishing to question a call that was made, or a call that should have been made but wasn’t, must follow a certain procedure to do so.

Rule 16 (b) (outlines the procedure for questioning a call) is quite clear in that the call must be questioned at the time a decision is made, and it must be voted on by all cast members. It takes a majority of cast decision to overturn a hunting Judge. If the complainant is still not satisfied, he must see that a question mark is placed on the card. If the questioning procedure is not properly followed, I maintain that a Master of Hounds could explain that, because the procedure for dealing with questions was not followed, his hands are tied and he cannot issue a decision that will affect the outcome of the cast.

Handlers have a basic responsibility of knowing the Nite Hunt Honor Rules as they apply to questioning the call of a hunting judge. So, too, must they know the procedure for questioning the decision of a Master of Hounds. Once a Master of Hounds makes it perfectly clear that he may not render a decision that will change the outcome of the cast, it’s up to him whether he listens to the question to attempt to “help” or “educate” those in the cast. It happens all the time in my job with UKC Field Operations. Every Monday the phone rings and a handler tells me that he would like to ask a question regarding a hunt in which he participated over the past weekend.

The very first thing that I ask every time is, “Was there an Appeal filed on this matter?” If the answer is no, I make it very clear that while I would be happy to listen to the caller’s account of the situation, I will not be able to make any changes that affect the outcome of the hunt. In most cases, the handler is fine with that and just wants to be heard and take any advice for future reference. Sometimes the satisfaction of knowing whether or not they were right or wrong is worth more than whatever placement they may have earned at the hunt.

As Master of Hounds you can do the same thing, provided that you are not totally backed up with other casts coming in at the same time. Make it clear that because the procedure for asking a question was not followed, you won’t be able to change anything. Perhaps at this time you instruct the handler on the proper procedures for questioning a call. You might also agree to listen to the question to try to help interested cast members better understand the rules for dealing with the situation at hand. Not all of these questions are life-or-death, first-place-win matters. (Some of them are though, so use good judgment.)

Let’s say that Handler A follows all procedures and still disagrees with the decision of the hunting judge (Handler B) and the rest of the cast members. Handler A asks the Judge to put a question mark on the card so he can bring it up to the Master of Hounds. Upon returning to the clubhouse, the Master of Hounds says, “I don’t want to hear it. You’re supposed to settle this type of question in the woods. No question.” Sound familiar? Is this an acceptable response from the Master of Hounds?

The answer is no, this is not an acceptable response from the Master of Hounds. The Master of Hounds has an obligation to politely listen to and issue a ruling on all questions that are procedurally, properly asked. I’ve listened to many a MOH start off their pre-hunt speech with remarks pertaining to handling questions in the field. It is a good reminder for a Master of Hounds to make. It’s necessary for the cast to make decisions in the field. However, a Master of Hounds should never take that so far as to think that they have the authority to decide which questions they will listen to and which ones they won’t.

The bottom line is, if the procedure for asking the question is followed right to the “T”, then the MOH must listen to the question and render a decision no matter how insignificant the question may seem. It’s one of the very basic rights of a handler in an event; the right to take a question back to the Master of Hounds.

Eligible to Re-Tree on Same Tree?

Q: This question involves scoring a dog that leaves the tree and is re-treed on the same tree. Dogs A, B, C and D are declared struck. Dogs A, B and C are declared treed and the five (5) minutes started. Twenty seconds later, Dog A leaves the tree and goes back to trailing. His tree points are minused. A little time later with Dog A now trailing around, Dog D is declared treed with Dogs B and C. Here is the question. At this point, is the tree dead or does Dog A still have the remainder of the five (5) minutes to be re-treed? If he can be re-treed, how many points does he go down for?

A: Dog A in this scenario can be re-treed and receives 25 tree points on the card to be scored accordingly, depending on what is or is not seen in the tree. Three dogs were declared treed for 125, 75 and 50 points, and the dog holding 125 leaves the tree.

Now we have two dogs treed, holding 75 and 50 points. Dogs do not move up when a position is minused. The tree is still open and a fourth dog gets treed for 25 points. We must keep the five (5) minutes running because all dogs are not declared treed. If Dog D had been declared treed before Dog A left the tree, the tree would be “dead” and the cast would go immediately to the tree.

Understanding that much, we now have Dog A coming back on the tree before the five (5) minutes has expired. Since all positions have been taken, and realizing that a dog cannot receive a position higher than what is being held, Dog A gets 25 points. Although Rule 2(d) deals specifically with strike points, the portion that states; {Multiple dogs may occupy fourth position.} would apply for scoring trees as well.



Intent of Five-Minute Rule

Q: Please explain to me why if all dogs in a cast are declared treed, you can go directly to them without the five-minute rule being applied? But if you have one dog remaining in the cast and the dog is declared treed, you have to apply the five minutes to the dog.

A: The main reason the five-minute time requirement was instituted was to insure that a dog would stay treed and as a “courtesy” to other handlers so that their dogs would have the opportunity to tree on that tree. When all dogs are declared treed, the courtesy time is not necessary and the cast may go in.

When it gets down to one dog in the cast, however, the competition factor is eliminated. The dog receives first strike and first tree without having to beat the other hounds to the punch. Making him hold his tree for five minutes was designed to make him “work” for the points he gets when hunting without competition. Requiring the five minutes wait before going to the tree has tripped up many a handler who might otherwise bring in a “dream” score.

In the case of separate trees, if all dogs are declared treed, we go directly to the dogs since the need for the “courtesy” time is eliminated. If one or more dogs are out and or not declared treed, then separate five minutes must be kept on each tree, allowing time for the remaining dog(s) to be treed on one of the trees.



“Yup, I See It.” “Wait a Minute; that’s Not a Coon!”

Two separate casts came back to me as the Master of Hounds at a big hunt recently. Both were the same type of question although with slight differences.

Cast A: All dogs were declared treed. The cast starts shining and right away sees eyes in the tree. All cast members agreed, “Yes, we see it.” However, after they had all agreed they saw it, one member throws a bright light up there and sees it is a possum instead of what they thought were coon eyes. Since they all agreed they saw it, is it considered scored and over with, regardless?

Cast B: Three-dog cast. Two dogs are left in the cast toward the end of the hunt. Both dogs fall treed but are split from each other on separate trees. The three members shine Dog A’s tree. After a little while, the judge says, “Here-ee is.”

The second cast member comes over and says, “Yep, I see it.”

The third cast member comes over and throws a bright light up there and says, “That’s nothing more than part of a limb, it’s not a coon.” After taking another look, the second cast member agrees that it is simply a limb and not a coon.

My ruling as the Master of Hounds was that a handler could in fact change his vote in both scenarios. Unfortunately, my ruling created a little debate, and the one handler was obviously not pleased with it. I know my ruling was correct based on confirmation from United Kennel Club; however, I think both of these scenarios would be a good to address in the Advisor Column again.

A: Most hunters with a good number of nite hunts under their belts have seen both of the exact situations as described. You throw your low light into the tree and at the spot as directed by a cast member. At first glance your initial thought is, “Yup, I see it,” and we verbally say so. Then you keep shining and looking a bit longer and you’re like “wait a minute”. You realize it’s not what you initially thought it was after all. Regardless, the question in either situation is; can a handlers change their vote after having verbally said something to the affect that he or she saw the coon?

To be fair and for the purpose of scoring trees correctly, UKC maintains that a tree is not considered to be officially scored until majority of the cast members are satisfied with their vote. This doesn’t mean you can vote one way at the tree and then vote another way at the trucks or at the clubhouse. The decision must be made at the tree. If we were to allow plus points on off game or dark spots on tree limbs simply because of initial first reactions or petty technicalities, then something is terribly wrong.

__________________
"PROUD SPONSOR OF BREAST CANCER AWEARNESS"

"Tell the truth the first time and you won't have to remember what you said!!!"


"25 years and still breeding coonhound to coonhound. Our goal is to bred yesteryears hound back into today's hounds"

"Remember the next time you go hunting take a child"

HOME OF THE RED WHITE AND BLUES


Please visit our website at the following link..

http://plainenglishkennel.weebly.com/ [/url]

E-mail us...
plainenglishjr@yahoo.com


PLAIN ENGLISH KENNEL EST. 1989

Join us on Facebook click on link below

https://m.facebook.com/plainenglish.kennel

HOME OF OUR VERY OWN

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES OL' BLU

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES JR

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S TAMMY

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES SUE

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES PEARL

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S WHITE MT DEW

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S FLOSIE

UKC NITECH AKC 'PR' HARD WOOD PEPPER

WV BACK COUNTRY BOB - (Black and Tan Cur)

Our Co-Owned Hounds

UKC 'PR' Given's Plain English Lil' Blue w/Chad Given

AND REMEMBER "KEEP'EM ENGLISH"

*Proud Member of UEB&FA, SEA, BRAXTON CO.CHA, Mud River Coon Club Inc. Pocahontas Nicholas CHA*
Junior Cartwright (304) 575-4495 cell

We Use And Recommend BLAZER & TRI-TRONICS NIGHT RAZOR LIGHTS, TRI-TRONICS, OLT SQUALLERS, INNOTEK & GARMIN 320 TRACKING SYSTEMS & PURINA DOG FEED, MUCK BOOTS DAN CHAPS


OUR RED FERN GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN CHAMPIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS...

R.I.P. UKC NITECH PKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S HARDTIME HANK 5/10/04 - 6/23/14

R.I.P. UKC GRCH NITECH & AKC CGCH RANSOM'S BAM 7/23/05 - 01/06/14

R.I.P.2011-2013 PERFORMANCE SIRE
UKC NITECH GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' MADDY GEES ROOFUS W/1-win towards GRAND!!! 8/21/2006-12/31/2012

R.I.P. UKC NKC AKC (TRIPLE) NITE CH CH 'PR' HAFA ADAI GIN "GINGER"

R.I.P. UKC CH 'PR' HALL'S BIG WHEEL

R.I.P. UKC NITE CH 'PR' DARK MTN CRANKIN' ROCK

R.I.P. CH 'PR' DARK HOLLOW TREE SLAMIN' BETTY

R.I.P. UKC GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' WELL KEPT SECRET

UKC CH 'PR' MAGNIFICENT MAGGIE

R.I.P UKC GRNITECH 'PR' BROWNS GAULEY RIVER DAN

"THEY ARE IN OUR THOUGHT'S AT EVERY TREE"

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Old Post 01-24-2015 05:10 PM
cartwright is offline Click Here to See the Profile for cartwright Click here to Send cartwright a Private Message Click Here to Email cartwright Visit cartwright's homepage! Find more posts by cartwright Add cartwright to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
cartwright
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2008
Location: HUNTERS HAVEN, WV
Posts: 3541

Q & A
Posted on 03/02/2015 in The Coonhound Advisor.

UKC Master of Hounds Apprenticeship Policy Change
The Hunt Director format was implemented several years ago where clubs could choose that option opposed to using a Master of Hounds for their UKC Licensed Nite Hunts. The few differences between a Hunt Director and a Master of Hounds are such that the individual serving as Hunt Director:
· Is not required to be a licensed Master of Hounds.
· May enter a dog they own in the event, if handled by another individual.
· Does not rule on questions brought in from the field (those questions are ruled on by a panel of three individuals).
Otherwise, just like a licensed Master of Hounds, the HD is responsible for assuring all event procedures are followed and is responsible for the Event Report be complete, accurate, includes all required signatures, etc…

These days a majority of clubs are choosing the option of using the Hunt Director format because of two common factors. 1) There may be an issue finding a local licensed official and/or 2) the HD may enter their dog(s) in the hunt. That’s all good and is a good option for clubs to have. However, with fewer clubs using the Master of Hounds format, individuals that passed their test to become a licensed Master of Hounds are sometimes finding it very difficult to get their apprenticeship program completed. For this reason the UKC has made the following change to its Master of Hounds Apprenticeship Program.

Effective immediately, individuals serving their Master of Hounds Apprenticeship may do so under a Hunt Director, provided the individual serving as Hunt Director at the UKC Licensed Event is a UKC Licensed Master of Hounds. An apprentice is subject to the same restrictions as the Hunt Director. Their dog may be entered in the event but may not be handled by the apprentice. An apprentice must remain at the clubhouse at all times. All decisions must be made by the Hunt Director. In the event a question comes back for a ruling the matter is resolved using a qualified three-person panel.

Dog Not Yet Transferred to New Owner with Regard to Multiple Entries
Q: When a new owner enters a dog in the event that has not been transferred into their name, is the event official required to split the entries when that same owner has another dog entered in the event? Here’s an example. Dog A is owned and registered to Allen Gingerich. Dog B is registered to Todd Kellam but was recently purchased by Allen Gingerich. The Bill of Sale (on the backside of the Registration Certificate) shows that Allen Gingerich is the new owner of Dog B but has not yet been transferred/registered to him. May/should Dog A and Dog B be intentionally split or drawn to different casts?

A: Owners having multiple entries in an event are only intentionally split if the dogs are registered in the same owner’s name. The registered owner is the name on the front side of the dogs Registration Certificate. Multiple entries may not be intentionally split otherwise. The individual the dog is registered to is what the official must go by. Per the example given above, Dog A and Dog B may not be intentionally split or drawn to different casts.


Non-Controlling Collars (new) for Garmin Alpha 100 Approved for Use
Q: Garmin just came out with a new collar they call the T5 that does not have any controlling features (stimulate or tone) on it. This collar is compatible with the handheld of the Garmin Alpha. May the handheld of a Garmin Alpha be carried by the handler during the hunt if linked to this new T5 collar?

A: The original collar, a track and train combo that came with the Alpha 100, was compatible with that handheld only, which is why that handheld was not approved for use during a hunt. Those Garmin Alpha owners who have been a little stressed out that your system could not be carried and used during the course of a UKC Licensed Nite Hunt, your day has arrived! Garmin has responded with a new collar (T5) that is compatible with the Alpha handheld. If linked to the T5 collar the controlling features on the handheld of a Garmin Alpha system is non-functioning and may be carried and used during the hunt. The quickest way to recognize the T5 collar is by the solid orange GPS module cover. GPS module covers on all other Garmin collars are black.

Another new collar on the market is the Garmin TT15. This collar is capable of tracking and training (thus the TT). This collar is compatible with other Garmin systems such as the Astro 320. The Astro 320 does not have a controlling feature on its handheld portion of the system, therefore, would make this collar approved for use during a hunt if linked to such a handheld.

If any of this is confusing, just remember this. Any tracking system, regardless of brand, that is also capable of controlling the handler’s dog, or any other dog in the cast where toning features are concerned, may not be carried or used during hunt time. For any further rules regarding the use of telemetry during the hunt they are available for review at each UKC Licensed Event. Those rules are printed on the back side of the Master of Hounds/Hunt Director Checklist that is read off publicly by the event official before casts are called out.


This article originally appeared in the August 2014 issue of COONHOUND BLOODLINES.

__________________
"PROUD SPONSOR OF BREAST CANCER AWEARNESS"

"Tell the truth the first time and you won't have to remember what you said!!!"


"25 years and still breeding coonhound to coonhound. Our goal is to bred yesteryears hound back into today's hounds"

"Remember the next time you go hunting take a child"

HOME OF THE RED WHITE AND BLUES


Please visit our website at the following link..

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HOME OF OUR VERY OWN

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES OL' BLU

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES JR

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S TAMMY

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES SUE

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES PEARL

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S WHITE MT DEW

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S FLOSIE

UKC NITECH AKC 'PR' HARD WOOD PEPPER

WV BACK COUNTRY BOB - (Black and Tan Cur)

Our Co-Owned Hounds

UKC 'PR' Given's Plain English Lil' Blue w/Chad Given

AND REMEMBER "KEEP'EM ENGLISH"

*Proud Member of UEB&FA, SEA, BRAXTON CO.CHA, Mud River Coon Club Inc. Pocahontas Nicholas CHA*
Junior Cartwright (304) 575-4495 cell

We Use And Recommend BLAZER & TRI-TRONICS NIGHT RAZOR LIGHTS, TRI-TRONICS, OLT SQUALLERS, INNOTEK & GARMIN 320 TRACKING SYSTEMS & PURINA DOG FEED, MUCK BOOTS DAN CHAPS


OUR RED FERN GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN CHAMPIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS...

R.I.P. UKC NITECH PKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S HARDTIME HANK 5/10/04 - 6/23/14

R.I.P. UKC GRCH NITECH & AKC CGCH RANSOM'S BAM 7/23/05 - 01/06/14

R.I.P.2011-2013 PERFORMANCE SIRE
UKC NITECH GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' MADDY GEES ROOFUS W/1-win towards GRAND!!! 8/21/2006-12/31/2012

R.I.P. UKC NKC AKC (TRIPLE) NITE CH CH 'PR' HAFA ADAI GIN "GINGER"

R.I.P. UKC CH 'PR' HALL'S BIG WHEEL

R.I.P. UKC NITE CH 'PR' DARK MTN CRANKIN' ROCK

R.I.P. CH 'PR' DARK HOLLOW TREE SLAMIN' BETTY

R.I.P. UKC GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' WELL KEPT SECRET

UKC CH 'PR' MAGNIFICENT MAGGIE

R.I.P UKC GRNITECH 'PR' BROWNS GAULEY RIVER DAN

"THEY ARE IN OUR THOUGHT'S AT EVERY TREE"

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cartwright
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2008
Location: HUNTERS HAVEN, WV
Posts: 3541

Q & A
Posted on 02/16/2015 in The Coonhound Advisor.


Declared Treed on Previously Scored Tree and Left
Q: Dogs A, B, C, and D were all struck and declared treed. When the cast arrived, Dog B was the only dog at the tree, and the other three dogs had left it. It was then determined that this was the same tree we had scored earlier. The Judge drew a line through all four dogs’ scores and called time out to handle the other three dogs. I said that only Dog B should have had a line through his points. Dogs A, C, and D should have been minused on tree and their strike points remain live. What say you?
SF/NC
A: I agree with you 100 percent. Nite Hunting 101 says if the dog is declared treed, he has to be there, period. Then if it is determined the dog is on the same tree, a line is drawn through the points. You are correct that Dogs A, C and D are minused their tree points in this situation. It’s just like calling a dog treed in a hole or place of refuse. One dog can show the end of the trail, but dogs who have been declared treed there must be there or be minused in accordance with Rule 4(i).

Dog Moving in Two-Dog Cast
Q: This question involves a two-dog Nite Champion cast without a third cast member. Dog A was handled by the Judge of the cast. Dogs A and B were struck, in that order. After moving to a spot where dogs could be heard better, Dog A was declared treed. Dog B’s handler stated that the dog was still moving. A and B could not agree on this, so B’s handler requested to move closer to the dogs. The handlers stopped about halfway to the dogs with approximately three to four minutes gone on the tree. The dogs were always within 300 yards of the cast after Dog A was declared treed, so it was plain to hear what was going on. Dog B’s handler was still questioning Dog A moving.
Dog B located a tree, and its handler stated, “Now they’re getting treed.”
Dog A’s handler then stated, “Five-fifty gone on the tree” so the cast headed to the tree. At no time before this did the Judge state the time on the tree. No ruling on Dog A moving was made and the coon was seen, so Dog A plussed on track and tree. Dog B was minused on track.
My question involves a portion of Rule 11 that states, “If at all possible, be at the tree within five (5) minutes.” The cast could have been to the tree just after the five minutes were up, due to the fact they were so close to the dogs. The rules are based on a time system to benefit all dogs. Good for Dog A, the dogs were treed when the “five fifty” was up; bad for Dog B. If the “tree” had been scored when the five minutes were up, I believe we would have found Dog A trailing and the score could have been handled fairly. Please print this and state your opinion as I feel it would allow all handlers to keep track of those “moving trees”. I also feel that a third cast member should be designated to all two-dog casts so these situations could be handled in the woods.
RD/New York
A: Your question brings several thoughts to mind, and all of them revolve around the word “honor”. The rules under which Nite Hunts are run are called Honor Rules. The registry that licenses the hunts depends on the honor of those who register dogs to present correct information for its records. Registrations are based upon statements given to the registry, and until challenged and proven otherwise, the registry accepts that information as fact.
Likewise with the handlers of dogs in Nite Hunts. The handlers are expected to be honest with the other hunters and with themselves in calling their dogs and in admitting when their dogs make mistakes. To do anything less is to be dishonest, plain and simple.
In your situation, the Judge of this cast is the handler of Dog A. The Judge has treed his dog, and the other handler raises a question about the dog moving. Normally, and within the scope of the rules, the handler of Dog B would have requested a vote of the cast members at the specific time he felt that Dog A was moving.
With only two members in the cast, the outcome of the vote is easily assumed. Nevertheless, it is the first procedure for questioning a situation. After that the handler may request a question mark be noted on the scorecard for the Master of Hounds to rule on. Somehow, from the tone of your letter, I don’t think this was done. I get the idea the handler of Dog B began to “suggest” to the Judge that Dog A was moving. Nagging the other handler about his dog moving without taking procedural steps is a bad idea that usually fuels the fire of dispute in the cast.
Only the two handlers in the woods know for sure whether Dog A moved from the spot where it was when its handler called treed. That’s where the honor comes in. If the dog was moving, an honorable hunting Judge would minus his own hound. Likewise, if the hound was not moving, an honorable handler of another dog in the cast would not say that it was. In this case, only the two handlers know for sure. Or maybe, it was indeed questionable as to whether the dog moved and the handlers really couldn’t tell. In either case, the vote is split one-to-one, and the Judge’s decision stands until the question is taken back to the Master of Hounds.
Again, the Master of Hounds is not there and must rely on the testimony of the two handlers as to what the dogs did. It would be unlikely that the Master of Hounds could cite against the judge unless discussion on the matter leads him to rule otherwise. Yours is almost always a no-win situation. The vote is one against one, and the Master of Hounds generally has no recourse but to go with the decision of the Judge which in this case is the handler of Dog A.
Now to the question of being at the tree within five minutes. Normally, had not the question of the dog moving come up, I would assume the handlers would have gotten to the tree. It sounds like the discussion that evolved adverted the attention away from the clock. If at all possible, the cast should start walking toward the dogs at a pace that will place them near the tree by the time the five minutes expires. This rule was placed in the Nite Hunt Honor Rules nearly 20 years ago to prevent handlers from holding the cast away from the tree.
In some cases, it is impossible to reach a tree within five minutes with anything less than a helicopter. If the terrain permits, the cast should move toward the tree with a goal of reaching it as the five minutes expire. Sometimes this is possible, sometimes not.

Noting Scores and Time When Member Leaves
Q: While studying my rulebook today, I came up with a question concerning Honor Rule 8(c). Handlers: “If dog is scratched or handler withdraws, it is the handler’s responsibility to record hunt time used and other dogs’ scores in the left margin of the scorecard.”
My question is, does the Master of Hounds have the authority to enforce this, and if so, what action should he take? If the Master of Hounds is not to enforce this rule, then should the Judge of the cast be required to be the enforcer?
I have now served three apprenticeships to become licensed as Master of Hounds and it is my desire to have answers to any possible problems which may arise in the future. Your opinion will be appreciated.
JL/Georgia
A: This portion of Rule 8 was implemented to help eliminate ideas of falsification of scorecards after a member or members of the cast left prior to the completion of hunting time. As Master of Hounds, you should not scratch the cast if the handler who left the cast does not complete the card as instructed in Rule 8. The cast member who ignores the rule is scratched already and may refuse to complete the card for whatever reason. However, UKC would advise judges to make it part of their responsibility to see this information is included on the card, if at all possible, and ask the handler to sign off in that box before they leave the cast. This gives the Master of Hounds a clearer picture on the number of points scored after the member(s) left, thus reducing the possibility of a questionable handler coming back with fairytale looking score.

__________________
"PROUD SPONSOR OF BREAST CANCER AWEARNESS"

"Tell the truth the first time and you won't have to remember what you said!!!"


"25 years and still breeding coonhound to coonhound. Our goal is to bred yesteryears hound back into today's hounds"

"Remember the next time you go hunting take a child"

HOME OF THE RED WHITE AND BLUES


Please visit our website at the following link..

http://plainenglishkennel.weebly.com/ [/url]

E-mail us...
plainenglishjr@yahoo.com


PLAIN ENGLISH KENNEL EST. 1989

Join us on Facebook click on link below

https://m.facebook.com/plainenglish.kennel

HOME OF OUR VERY OWN

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES OL' BLU

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES JR

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S TAMMY

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES SUE

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES PEARL

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S WHITE MT DEW

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S FLOSIE

UKC NITECH AKC 'PR' HARD WOOD PEPPER

WV BACK COUNTRY BOB - (Black and Tan Cur)

Our Co-Owned Hounds

UKC 'PR' Given's Plain English Lil' Blue w/Chad Given

AND REMEMBER "KEEP'EM ENGLISH"

*Proud Member of UEB&FA, SEA, BRAXTON CO.CHA, Mud River Coon Club Inc. Pocahontas Nicholas CHA*
Junior Cartwright (304) 575-4495 cell

We Use And Recommend BLAZER & TRI-TRONICS NIGHT RAZOR LIGHTS, TRI-TRONICS, OLT SQUALLERS, INNOTEK & GARMIN 320 TRACKING SYSTEMS & PURINA DOG FEED, MUCK BOOTS DAN CHAPS


OUR RED FERN GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN CHAMPIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS...

R.I.P. UKC NITECH PKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S HARDTIME HANK 5/10/04 - 6/23/14

R.I.P. UKC GRCH NITECH & AKC CGCH RANSOM'S BAM 7/23/05 - 01/06/14

R.I.P.2011-2013 PERFORMANCE SIRE
UKC NITECH GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' MADDY GEES ROOFUS W/1-win towards GRAND!!! 8/21/2006-12/31/2012

R.I.P. UKC NKC AKC (TRIPLE) NITE CH CH 'PR' HAFA ADAI GIN "GINGER"

R.I.P. UKC CH 'PR' HALL'S BIG WHEEL

R.I.P. UKC NITE CH 'PR' DARK MTN CRANKIN' ROCK

R.I.P. CH 'PR' DARK HOLLOW TREE SLAMIN' BETTY

R.I.P. UKC GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' WELL KEPT SECRET

UKC CH 'PR' MAGNIFICENT MAGGIE

R.I.P UKC GRNITECH 'PR' BROWNS GAULEY RIVER DAN

"THEY ARE IN OUR THOUGHT'S AT EVERY TREE"

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Old Post 03-09-2015 01:34 PM
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Greg Burks
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2014
Location: texas
Posts: 176

Ok I have a ? Where the 4 dogs treed and coon was seen jumping out and all four dogs ran and retreed coon all dogs are minused for leaving tree and then retreed in the order they retree I got that...what if one dog stays at original tree is he minused strke and tree points for a slick tree ?

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Bill(Chew)
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 2593

Plus if you find another coon up the tree, minus if no coon is seen and there is no place to hide, circle if place the coon could be and not be seen.

I've seen this happen more than once. I've even seen one jump and another stay put in the tree.

__________________
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Washington, NC
252-944-5592

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Jason Baldwin
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2117

RULE # 2. If, by way of telemetry, a handler deems dog to be in danger per an item outlined in Rule 7, they may ask for a cast vote to call time out. If a majority is not reached, the handler may withdraw the dog and retrieve it for safety’s sake.



Im trying to picture this. So the other cast members have a choice. The guy says the dog is getting near a highway and you can plainly look at the Garmin and he shows you the garmin and you SEE the man's dog approaching the highway and then you either vote to call time out and go get the dog or either vote no and force him to withdraw and continue the hunt ?

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Jason Baldwin
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2117

Q: Do judges have the authority to not accept a strike or tree call by a handler?

A: Yes they do have the authority to not accept a call. Whenever a handler strikes his dog, be it a strike or a tree call, and the dog is not heard opening or treeing, then the call shall not be accepted. There is no penalty applied. Remember, telemetry may not be used to make any such determination.


This is NOT the way its enforced around here. Around here you BETTER know the other cast members can hear your dog also or they accept your call and your immediately MINUSED strike points right then.

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Greg Burks
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2014
Location: texas
Posts: 176

bill (chew)

What if you are in the process of handling the dog/dogs and coon bails out..slick tree ?

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Old Post 03-10-2015 12:28 AM
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Bill(Chew)
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 2593

The coon MUST be seen during the shine time. Don't always agree with that but it is UKC's rule so we go by it.

__________________
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Washington, NC
252-944-5592

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Old Post 03-10-2015 05:31 AM
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Greg Burks
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2014
Location: texas
Posts: 176

That's the key to both these scenario's "during shine time"...

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Old Post 03-10-2015 11:54 AM
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cartwright
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2008
Location: HUNTERS HAVEN, WV
Posts: 3541

Off Game and a Coon in Same Tree

Q & A
Posted on 04/06/2015 in The Coonhound Advisor.


Off Game and a Coon in Same Tree

Q: How do you score a tree where both off game and a coon are seen in the same tree?

A: You should give the dogs the benefit of the doubt and plus the points.



Off Game and Den Tree

Q: How do you score a tree that is an obvious den tree but you see off game in the tree?

A: In that case you don’t see the coon; therefore, you have to score it as seeing off game only.



Off Game or a Coon

Q: What if a cast cannot all agree whether the game seen in the tree is a coon or some other off game?

A: This situation is not a matter of a majority not seeing the game. The situation is determining what the game is; therefore, it is not a matter that automatically goes to a majority vote for a decision. Instead, the judge of the cast shall make the decision on whether it is a coon or not, based on his or her opinion. Unless any handler disagrees, that is the decision. If anyone in the cast does not agree with the judge’s decision they may ask for a cast vote. It would then take a majority voting against the judge in order for his or her decision to be reversed. In a four-dog cast, it would take all three handlers voting against the judge. Two and two is not a majority to overturn the judge’s decision.



Act of Courtesy Questioned

Q: In a three-dog cast, all dogs are declared treed. I was the hunting judge. When we arrived, my dog was not at the tree so I minused the dog and ordered the other two dogs to be handled. The dogs were treed on a fairly steep bank of a creek. I crossed the creek and started shining on that side while the other two handlers were shining from the side the dogs were treed on. Soon after we started shining, one of the guys yelled at me and said my dog came into the tree, which I saw as well. So I asked the one handler if he would handle and tie my dog for me if I threw him my lead strap. He said sure, and that’s what he did. This was the same handler whose dog was leading the cast. After he tied my dog, the other handler wanted him scratched for handling another handler’s dog. I was a bit dumbfounded but he was adamant that he be scratched for it. I told him that I knew of no such rule. He continued to make a fuss of it and after the hunt was over he raised the question with the Master of Hounds and wanted to fill out a complaint against me. Does UKC have any such rule that I’m not aware of?

A: This question may be best answered with a question. Where does that logic come from? There are obviously handler infractions that do result in a scratch, but this is not one of them. Not even close. Last time I checked, leashing and tying a dog back for another handler in the cast is a form of courtesy and good sportsmanship. Making a stink of it and trying to get a handler scratched for doing so seems like exactly the opposite of that.

For the record, UKC defines “handling” as verbally calling the dog struck and treed. Physically handling a dog may be done by the handler or anyone else in the cast, if needed. Young handlers sometimes need help leading a dog, handling a dog at the tree or even turning it loose. In the scenario above, it sounds like one cast member was more interested in looking for a way to eliminate the competition as opposed to actually competing and let the chips fall where they may.



Agreeing to Allow Track and Train Handhelds to be Carried is not an Option

Have you ever, as a handler, been involved in a cast where all handlers agree to allow the handheld of a track and training device to be carried by the handlers? If so, you might think about what you are doing before you agree to something that is against the rules. No judge or handler has the authority or the option to agree to disregard any rule. Agreeing to disregard this or any other rule is never a good idea.

If such a question ever arises in a cast you are involved with, you would be well advised to speak up and let the rest of the cast know that “we don’t have the option of agreeing to disregard a rule”. Otherwise, this might be a good time to take note of the “Attention” list that runs alongside this monthly column. That list was implemented for things of this nature that were not reported or handled on the day of the event.



Honesty and Integrity

honesty, n.1. Quality of being honest; a honour, seemliness of behaviour; b chastity; c uprightness of character; freedom from deceit and fraud; integrity, trustworthiness.

integrity, n. ‘completeness, soundness; blamelessness, innocence’.

How many times have you heard someone tell the story of how they got cheated at a nite hunt? Sometimes it becomes apparent that it’s more of an issue with the complainant and not knowing and understanding the rules well enough. Sometimes it’s an excuse for the dog. Sometimes it’s the truth!

One’s honesty and integrity certainly play a key role when it comes to making decisions during the course of a nite hunt. We are very appreciative of those hunters and judges who can always be counted on to base their decisions on doing the right thing according to the situation at hand, regardless of how it affects the dog they are handling. The rules provided for nite hunts work flawlessly for the most part if the honesty and integrity of those involved is what it should be. Otherwise, judgment calls or voting situations can certainly change the outcome of a cast winner.

Furthermore, what is a win or a title really worth when we got caught up in scoring something wrong for the simple sake of winning? I’m fairly certain that hounds don’t care whether they win or lose. Titles on the line or not, they simply don’t always perform according to the reputation they may have earned. However, that should never be the case when it comes to judges and handlers. Their integrity and reputation is always on the line during the course of a nite hunt. Five or ten years from now, we will have forgotten the dog that got an undeserved win, but we certainly won’t forget the face of a dishonest handler. It’s good to be reminded of this every now and then and to be encouraged to be a positive influence for the new guys coming into our sport. Some things are out of our control. Our honesty and integrity is not one of those things. Our actions and the choices we make determine our integrity.

__________________
"PROUD SPONSOR OF BREAST CANCER AWEARNESS"

"Tell the truth the first time and you won't have to remember what you said!!!"


"25 years and still breeding coonhound to coonhound. Our goal is to bred yesteryears hound back into today's hounds"

"Remember the next time you go hunting take a child"

HOME OF THE RED WHITE AND BLUES


Please visit our website at the following link..

http://plainenglishkennel.weebly.com/ [/url]

E-mail us...
plainenglishjr@yahoo.com


PLAIN ENGLISH KENNEL EST. 1989

Join us on Facebook click on link below

https://m.facebook.com/plainenglish.kennel

HOME OF OUR VERY OWN

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES OL' BLU

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES JR

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S TAMMY

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES SUE

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY GEES PEARL

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S WHITE MT DEW

UKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S MADDY G'S FLOSIE

UKC NITECH AKC 'PR' HARD WOOD PEPPER

WV BACK COUNTRY BOB - (Black and Tan Cur)

Our Co-Owned Hounds

UKC 'PR' Given's Plain English Lil' Blue w/Chad Given

AND REMEMBER "KEEP'EM ENGLISH"

*Proud Member of UEB&FA, SEA, BRAXTON CO.CHA, Mud River Coon Club Inc. Pocahontas Nicholas CHA*
Junior Cartwright (304) 575-4495 cell

We Use And Recommend BLAZER & TRI-TRONICS NIGHT RAZOR LIGHTS, TRI-TRONICS, OLT SQUALLERS, INNOTEK & GARMIN 320 TRACKING SYSTEMS & PURINA DOG FEED, MUCK BOOTS DAN CHAPS


OUR RED FERN GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN CHAMPIONS ARE AS FOLLOWS...

R.I.P. UKC NITECH PKC 'PR' PLAIN ENGLISH'S HARDTIME HANK 5/10/04 - 6/23/14

R.I.P. UKC GRCH NITECH & AKC CGCH RANSOM'S BAM 7/23/05 - 01/06/14

R.I.P.2011-2013 PERFORMANCE SIRE
UKC NITECH GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' MADDY GEES ROOFUS W/1-win towards GRAND!!! 8/21/2006-12/31/2012

R.I.P. UKC NKC AKC (TRIPLE) NITE CH CH 'PR' HAFA ADAI GIN "GINGER"

R.I.P. UKC CH 'PR' HALL'S BIG WHEEL

R.I.P. UKC NITE CH 'PR' DARK MTN CRANKIN' ROCK

R.I.P. CH 'PR' DARK HOLLOW TREE SLAMIN' BETTY

R.I.P. UKC GRCH PKC,AKC 'PR' WELL KEPT SECRET

UKC CH 'PR' MAGNIFICENT MAGGIE

R.I.P UKC GRNITECH 'PR' BROWNS GAULEY RIVER DAN

"THEY ARE IN OUR THOUGHT'S AT EVERY TREE"

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Old Post 04-07-2015 04:39 PM
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scoham
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: SE Iowa
Posts: 117

Good point made here.

This should be a pivotal mandatory training program for all registered clubs and members. It could provide a means for UKC to police their own program and lessen the legal liability of not doing so.

A: This question may be best answered with a question. Where does that logic come from? There are obviously handler infractions that do result in a scratch, but this is not one of them. Not even close. Last time I checked, leashing and tying a dog back for another handler in the cast is a form of courtesy and good sportsmanship. Making a stink of it and trying to get a handler scratched for doing so seems like exactly the opposite of that.

For the record, UKC defines “handling” as verbally calling the dog struck and treed. Physically handling a dog may be done by the handler or anyone else in the cast, if needed. Young handlers sometimes need help leading a dog, handling a dog at the tree or even turning it loose. In the scenario above, it sounds like one cast member was more interested in looking for a way to eliminate the competition as opposed to actually competing and let the chips fall where they may.

__________________
(319) 256-4848
scoham02@aol.com
USN(Retired)

"Every dog receives training each time thier put in the woods whether intended or not."
"I gave up the need to be right along time ago"

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Old Post 04-07-2015 05:43 PM
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cartwright
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2008
Location: HUNTERS HAVEN, WV
Posts: 3541

Non-Controlling Collars

Posted on 05/05/2015 in The Coonhound Advisor.


Non-Controlling Collars (T5) for Garmin Alpha 100 Approved for Use

This topic was originally published in the August 2014 column. There seems to still be questions regarding the use of a Garmin Alpha during the course of a hunt. Here’s another refresher course on this subject.



Q: Garmin just came out with a new collar they call the T5 that does not have any controlling features (stimulate or tone) on it. This collar is compatible with the handheld of the Garmin Alpha. May the handheld of a Garmin Alpha be carried by the handler during the hunt if linked to this new T5 collar?

A: The original collar, a track and train combo that came with the Alpha 100, was compatible with that handheld only, which is why that handheld was not approved for use during a hunt. Those Garmin Alpha owners who have been a little stressed out that your system could not be carried and used during the course of a UKC Licensed Nite Hunt, your day has arrived! Garmin has responded with a new collar (T5) that is compatible with the Alpha handheld. If linked to the T5 collar, the controlling features on the handheld of a Garmin Alpha system is non-functioning and may be carried and used during the hunt. The quickest way to recognize the T5 collar is by the solid orange GPS module cover. GPS module covers on all other Garmin collars are black.

Another new collar on the market is the Garmin TT15. This collar is capable of tracking and training (thus the TT). This collar is compatible with other Garmin systems such as the Astro 320. The Astro 320 does not have a controlling feature on its handheld portion of the system, therefore would make this collar approved for use during a hunt if linked to such a handheld.

If any of this is confusing, just remember this. Any tracking system, regardless of brand, that is also capable of controlling the handler’s dog, or any other dog in the cast where toning features are concerned, may not be carried or used during hunt time. For any further rules regarding the use of telemetry during the hunt they are available for review at each UKC Licensed Event. Those rules are printed on the back of the Master of Hounds/Hunt Director Checklist that is read off publicly by the event official before casts are called out.



Spectators Shining Trees

The current rule allows for spectators to shine, “if” ALL handlers agree. The decision must be made at the beginning of the hunt. In other words, the cast cannot vote for it at each tree. What they voted on at the beginning of the hunt will apply for the duration of the hunt. Any deviation from that may get the whole cast scratched.

Judges should make this question one of their first orders of business before casting dogs. They should make note of the decision (allowing or not allowing) on the scorecard. In the event spectators are allowed to shine then they should also be well aware or informed of their roles and authorities in this regard.

“If” it is a unanimous decision to allow spectators to shine:

1. They may not start shining until all handlers are allowed to start shining.

2. If they find the coon, they may tell and show the judge or a cast member where it is.

3. They may not participate in any voting procedures or discussions on how a tree should be scored. They shall have no role or participate in any question, involving the scoring of a tree or any other situation that is presented to the Master of Hounds or a panel.

Spectators and handlers should always respect each cast member’s votes without question when it comes to their decision of allowing or not allowing spectators to shine. They shall never result to any negative comments or attempt to persuade others one way or the other.



Checking Off Game Tree but Not Opening

Q: In a four-dog Nite Champion cast, Dogs A, B and C are declared struck and treed. D has not opened at any time. After the five is up, the cast goes in and find all four dogs at the tree. Dog D is seen raring up on the tree and smelling, but does not bark and has not been heard opening any other time. How do you score Dog D under these circumstances?

A: Rule 6(k) applies to this situation which states; (dogs are scratched) In Nite Champion and Grand Nite Champion casts, for running, treeing or molesting off game during hunting time, including any timeout periods that prior to the expiration of hunt time.

We have to key in on three verbs in this rule when determining how to score Dog D. 1) running, 2) treeing and, 3) molesting. For starters, we can eliminate “molesting” for obvious reasons. The same is true for “running” because we have not heard or seen him involved in such. And finally, we can also eliminate “treeing” because raring up and smelling is not considered “treeing”. Therefore, no harm no foul. Dog D is the only dog left in this cast and completes the remainder of the hunt by his lonesome. That’s a unique scenario for sure and one that doesn’t happen very often.



Who is Considered a Spectator?

UKC Nite Hunt rules allow for two spectators per a handler in a cast. Those handlers are responsible for their spectators’ actions should they violate any rules they might be subject to during the course of the hunt.

One misconception is that a back-up handler is not considered as a spectator. That is not true. They are in fact considered as such until the point they take over handling duties. The primary handler would then become the spectator. Any owner, whether they tag along with the cast or stay at the trucks, is also considered a spectator.

A non-hunting guide would not be considered a spectator; however, they fall under the same rules as a spectator when it comes to getting involved in the hunt, such as shining trees or scoring disputes, etc., etc. The only difference is a guide violating any spectator rules would not result in any of the handler’s dog being scratched. Non-hunting guides who violate any spectator rules should be reported via a Misconduct Report at the clubhouse.

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