Registered: Mar 2011
Location: 20 miles west of Dayton, OH
Posts: 15

4 dogs struck in A B C AND D, In that order.
All dogs diggin and moving around this heap a mess after a coon in a brush/rock pile in a fence row. The coon is seen by the majority moving deeper into the mess while dogs are being handled. Dogs A B and C are treed in. Dog D carries 25 strike points but is not treed in. What happens to his strike points since he is not treeed in? The 5 mins has been over before getting to the mess. The judge said to minus him since he wasn't treed in. The other cast members agreed. Was the judge's call correct?

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

Read rule 3(b). It applies spot on to this situation.

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Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Western N.Y.
Posts: 3995

quote:

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Originally posted by Jerry Ray Back
4 dogs struck in A B C AND D, In that order.
All dogs diggin and moving around this heap a mess after a coon in a brush/rock pile in a fence row. The coon is seen by the majority moving deeper into the mess while dogs are being handled. Dogs A B and C are treed in. Dog D carries 25 strike points but is not treed in. What happens to his strike points since he is not treeed in? The 5 mins has been over before getting to the mess. The judge said to minus him since he wasn't treed in. The other cast members agreed. Was the judge's call correct?

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

I'll make it even easier.

3. POINTS WILL BE PLUS:
(a) When dogs strike and tree and coon is seen: (1)
by a non-hunting Judge, or (2) by a majority of the
cast when hunting Judge is used. (3) Only one tree
is counted even if more than one coon is up the tree.
(b) When dog is declared struck and treed and coon is
seen other than in tree, dog declared treed to receive
strike and tree points. Dogs not declared treed, strike
points only. If dog catches coon, strike points only.
(c) One set of strike points in case of split tree, and
each will be counted as separate trees for tree points.
(d) Dog(s) that are shut out (not struck before first dog
is declared treed) must still be declared struck. They are
eligible for tree points if they are declared treed within
the five minutes. If they are at tree shut out on when
judge arrives, strike points are deleted. For all other situations they are accountable for their strike poin

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PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: MO
Posts: 775

is this brush pile a place of refuge? Was the coon only seen when dogs were told to be handled and never seen during "shine time"

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

I don't know why this rule is so hard to understand. I was a spectator on a hunt one night when some guys wrongfully minused a dogs strike in this situation. It cost him placement in a big hunt because he didn't question it. He just figgured they were right.

You do NOT have to tree a dog in to score a place of refuge/hole in the ground. If you do not tree then you only have strike points to plus or minus. If you see the coon during shine time dogs that were treed in get their strike and tree plussed. Dogs that were not treed in get their strike PLUSSED.

There is absolutely positively no rule that allows you to minus dog D in this situation. It doesn't exist.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14388

Sounds to me like coon was not seen during shine time. Before shine time while dogs were being handled.

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Michael Ghorley

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: MO
Posts: 775

quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
Sounds to me like coon was not seen during shine time. Before shine time while dogs were being handled.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: SW Michigan-again
Posts: 2311

quote:

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Originally posted by Lee Currens Jr.
so if you walk in to a tree and a coon jumps out in front of the cast
we circle it?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: SW Michigan-again
Posts: 2311

quote:

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Originally posted by Lee Currens Jr.
so - are show me den,i always have heard a little common sense
went along way.little differnce in the two

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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2963

Do some of these guys ever read rules, before they're asked to judge?? + all dogs in place of refuge, D just don't have tree points to plus, but other dogs get + both ways. Take care, Ron.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: SW Michigan-again
Posts: 2311

quote:

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Originally posted by Lee Currens Jr.
now do you beleive 3 dogs called treed didnt move on a rock fence
[same as concret wall] for 5min with 1 still running.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: SW Michigan-again
Posts: 2311

Have a good evening Mr Currens.

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Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Hamden Ohio
Posts: 227

btt

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Registered: Mar 2011
Location: 20 miles west of Dayton, OH
Posts: 15

I was just spectating the cast. I'll have to ask one of the cast members on if they saw it during shine time. I would have plussed all dogs even the one not treed in but he would have only got plus strike points. I knew the rule but the judge of this cast did not. Jerry

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Registered: Mar 2011
Location: 20 miles west of Dayton, OH
Posts: 15

The dogs were handled and shine time was started and the coon was seen in the hole/mess. The judge minused dog D.
To make matters worse the other cast members did not know the rules very well and allowed the minus. This minus cost this dog a first place win. He placed 2nd. This happened at a hunt in Milton, IN this past weekend. I got the info on what happened 2nd hand from a cast member. I sat this dump out in the truck. I wish now I would have walked in so I could have at least clarified the rule for these gentlemen so they could have made their decision with a little more information. The dogs name who won the cast is DeCon. He is a very nice hound. Jerry

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Registered: May 2008
Location: mn
Posts: 356

why does dog d not get minused next available tree

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Brandon

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Registered: Mar 2011
Location: 20 miles west of Dayton, OH
Posts: 15

The rule is written so you don't penalize a dog when the coon is found in a place other than a tree. Strike points should be plussed as long as the dog is at or near the hole or place of refuge like a barn pile of wood whaterver. Most Nite hunters don't know or understand this rule.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:

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Originally posted by bluetick250
why does dog d not get minused next available tree

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Registered: Mar 2011
Location: 20 miles west of Dayton, OH
Posts: 15

btt

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