Registered: Jun 2003
Location: illlinois
Posts: 1902

on another board here i see where ukc will hold their first ever show judges conference. it will be summer, 2004, and in kalamazoo, mi. it will be 3 days long? if i read correctly. it appears that maybe this is something coonhound show judges might be interested in?! also, i'm located in n. ill...if anyone wants to join up and attend? contact me and maybe we can get a group over to it?!

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AMAZEN COONHOUNDS

Last edited by lauraroeder on 09-04-2003 at 05:09 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4502

What I STILL want to know is why can't some of this info be passed on or available to those that cannot attend??????

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

Yeah - Michigan is a LOOOOONG way from Texas! Will UKC pay our airfare & hotel to attend?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
Posts: 2719

After talking with Wayne C what I get from this is there will be HANDS on work with this judge (she is from the other breed side) and will be classroom, and slide and most of all hands on for all in attendance. She will be working on and having dogs from the Coonhounds and other breeds for all to look at both on the ground, a better working of understanding the gait, then proper angulation and how to go over a dog and what portions to look for regarding head, feet, chest, topline, neck, and the whole dog.

This cannot be done over the net, nor can it be done on paper, they have done that with their packages, this is the next step to get judges all on the same sheet of music when judging a dog.

Yes, Mich is a long ways away, and I think if the first one does good, you may see more of them in other locations throughout the USA. Now, it may not be in your back yard, (UKC HQS is about 7-8 hours for me) but I'm going, just to add a UKC/AKC/American Foxhound twist to it. Your never to old to learn, and I got a good feeling this will be an excellant program.

As for what it will cost, room, and getting there, they (UKC) plan on the meals and everything being right there so the class does not stop !!! Its a working seminar !!!! Hope to see you there

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Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4502

what about videos?

At least we could see and hear what is going on!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

is too much time for this unless the person putting on the show for ukc ,is getting paid.

seems to me like someone is milking this out like the highway dept., on our highway roadwork.

all of this could be put on a video tape and sent to the judges wanting to learn more.and then they could get their own dogs out and compare to the video.

i'm always interested in learning more about anything about dogs, but not spend 3 days playing with rover when 1 day on the weekend would be more than enough, or sit and watch a 6hr. video and learn as much.

sounds like someone has their fingers in ukc's cookie jar!!!!!

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 4324

Granted, there are a LOT of benchshow judges that don't know anything about angulation & movement, etc. and they would appreciate & benefit from the seminar. But exhibitors need to learn the importance of training their dogs to move on a loose leash with the dog's nose off the ground. And until exhibitors understand the importance of THAT, the judges will STILL have their work cut out for them. Also, most judges now seem to just go through the motions of looking at gait without understanding or caring how important it is. There is seldom ample room given for moving our coonhounds at the smaller shows so we can demonstrate drive & reach that comes from correct shoulder & rear angulation combined with overall balance.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

but all that could be put on a video ....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Camden,NC
Posts: 2719

wildbill, I would disagree that this could be put on a video. Just like a picture it is only one demention. They will be covering handling, training, but most of all hands on work on the dogs and a Thur-Fri-Sat is in my opinion not that long. Now, once they hold the first one I'm sure they will with critiques change things, but this individual giving this seminar has done so many times, and I'm sure she has a lesson plan so this is not her first time doing this.

With hands on work you can go over a dog and then have a critique from the instructor, and other class mates thus learning from others to cover ALL the areas of judging. This cannot be covered in a video or on paper.

Just my opinion.

__________________
Take a Child Hunting, and you will never forget it !!

GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

you must not have seen the same kind of video's i've seen .

but finding a good director to bring out the type video needed for something like this might cost a little ,but i'd rather spend a little money on a video than loose work on thursday and friday just to learn how a SHOW DOG should look like.

some people have to work for a liveing and thur/fri off means i loose $800-$1ooo just to see how to better judge a SHOWDOG.
if i was retired and had a steady income maybe i'd go to one if it was close ,but you tell my wife and some of these others wives give up some of their wages for something like this and i hope i'm not standing behind you as i wouldn't want you to fall on me when that kitchon sink in that pocketbook hits you..lol

by the way i'm feeding 3 show ch.'s but they will run and tree when i don't brag on them...lol

hey maybe they could get lonnie mears to help with the video ,his was'nt too bad ...

i said video mark, not pictures.

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Last edited by wildbill on 09-06-2003 at 12:45 AM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minden Louisiana
Posts: 147

In my profession I must attend classes every 5 yrs to maintain my Master's lic. Not only are they 61 to 72 hrs courses (Radar, Fire Fighting, STCW, Bridge Resource Managment) I must recieve these cetificate to renew my Lic. I pay for my room and board along with the class at a cost of about 3500.00. What I have learned is that these classes are great remedial training. I feel that we all loose a little focus with time and some of the show's that I have attended lately are getting tougher for the judges because of the quality of dog. I hear so much junk about they pick this one because of this handler or that dog becuase all the dog needed to be Ch was a best of show.

One last thought on this before I get bashed

I believe that a BSJ should have to attend a siminar and pass a test along with the apprenticeship before being licensed as a BSJ judge. Heck they are recieving pay from the clubs for there services and also wield the power as the UKC authority of JUDGE and and the responcibility of dogs meeting certain standard and acheiving Titles. I feel that some of these judges do not meet these standards. I know this will tick some folks off but hey I pay my entry and I attend these show so I want a quilified JUDGE one that has proven to be competent. Is that too much to ask. I don't think so. Im in Louisiana and I will be there funny part is I will probable find out that I have been looking at the wrong things when I was judging.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
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due to your profession you have to take the test as i do have to take a test to renew my C.D.L. to drive semi..but how many drivers are going to spend $3500 + for a C.D.L. ....when that happens there will be a whole lot less drivers on the road as there are most likely not as many people in your profession too .

(I hear so much junk about they pick this one because of this handler or that dog )ticked, this stuff does happen and anybody that says it don't, better open their eyes.

bench shows started out to show the betterment of breeding better coondogs but has turned into a different deal altogether.
now the dogs are being bred like mules. and breeding the coondog out of most in the name of SHOW DOG

sure some the clubs have to pay benchshow judge's to judge for them .

but most are only getting enough fo gas money ,and do it to help out the clubs .

not as a profession.
when it comes down to judges haveing to fork out a lot of money for right to judge a show for a club for gas money.UKC and the clubs arent going to pay a judge the pay for a professional judge's fee .and do you know how hard it is for some of these clubs to get someone to judge a bench show for them.

if you don't ,you better start asking around.

when it come's down to a judge haveing to fork out a lot of money to keep the judge's card ,there will be less judges and and due to ukc reqirements about how many judges a club has to have as a member ,to hold UKC events,there will be less clubs haveing bench shows.

i'd say if UKC went and checked the records of the clubs, i'd say a bunch of them would not have enough paidup judge members on the books to be allowed to hold a show let alone a hunt, as most smaller clubs have to hire judges from other clubs to hold hunts.,because the judges quit going to the clubs.

i'm not slamming you ,,just stating the facts as i have seen them first hand.

o yes my ph.# as if it really means anything to anyone on here.......740-439-3682 .....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minden Louisiana
Posts: 147

Bill...we can chase this rabbit all day long..and I appreciate your input and understand what you are saying ...

Let me throw this at you
In the beginning trucking was a very profitable business, then companies like JBHUNT and a few others started hiring all these folk and was able to under bid most operators. When that was done they needed more drivers now its saturated with drivers and companies competing for loads. Now to compete they have to cut cost that means less pay. Not to mention you have to agree the easier it is to obtain a Lic. the less qualified people you have driving.
I know there's alot more to it then that plus you have the Gov. involved with grant money to send people in need to school to learn a trade and it goes on and on

My wifes mom and dad are owner operators and make a living because they can double up on the hrs they can drive in a week, but they also have a great reputation for a clean truck and great work history. they are asked for by name because of the job that they do and because of all the junk drivers that are out there. They ask a little more per mile but are still getting the loads.... Kinda like you get what you pay for. UKC pays NOTHING so we get what we pay for and also the clubs get what they pay for.

Now
The Marine Industry which does simular work except on water did
the same type of thing the only diffrence was that in the beginning all you had to do was the time at sea then you could set for a Lic. However there was no training. Ya we worked on the boat gaining experience but non behind the wheel so to speak. We had alot of folks with Lic. but not many that could tie up to a rig or dock it with out destroying million of dollars of eq. not to mention personal safety. Let me tell ya tieing up to a rig in a12ft sea with a 30kt cross wind can be a little tricky. So the US Coast Guard had to figure out a way to weed out some of these folks and train the others and they did it by training class requirments that must be met and renewed training every 5 years, no more just testing.

I guess what Im trying to say is that UKC has a lot of field reps and can come up with a program for training BSJ's there reps are at all the RQE's and it would't be that hard to do. They can even make it affordable.

The clubs are making good money from there cut on the UKC events they can afford to pay a little for a good judge because I believe and know that some folk aren't coming to certain clubs because of the judging. I tell them if they feel strong about it write a letter but they never do and just quit coming and thats lost money.

I am fortunate that I live in a place that have several Lic judges in a small area and I believe that UKC is trying to address this issue with a working siminar heck if you try most could write off the expense in taxes.

as far as clubs and members I believe that UKC may need to look at the amount of clubs they have and the number of events. We again have several clubs in our area and I feel they are killing each other. For example in this area we have we have 6 clubs with in 60 miles I mean draw a circle 60 mile radius 6 clubs and about another 5 or 6 on the border of that circle.......

ps I look forward to your responce.
mitch

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Last edited by J and M on 09-06-2003 at 10:20 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2967

I personally believe most of this could easily be put on a video. As person who does alot of video taping and editing, it is getting to be a very simple procedure. There are plenty of folks on this board who will testify that if a simpleton like Redtick can do videos, anyone could. Of course, I am not a professional but with all of the video editing software availible today, it is very easy for almost anyone with a computer and some video to do an acceptable video. I have often thought about doing a bench show tape but have my hands full with the tapes I do now. And, I would suggest doing a DVD instead of a video tape.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

you said a mouthfull and i have to agree with you .untill ukc gets real on the amount of clubs in each state and how many hunts held each week in each state ,then all the clubs are going to keep loosing attendance and money.

on the trucking thing you're right.i read in one of the trucking papers at one truckstop where swift was going to try to hire 20,000 drivers a yr. or in the next couple yrs...what kind of drivers do you think they are goning to have..lol...i done had one swift driver come over on me and i had to move 2 lanes to the right and ended up on the berm and almost going down an off ramp to keep from getting hit by him and when another driver asked him why he ran the flatbed driver off the road ..his reply was he didnt run nobody off the road and that i was coming up the get on ramp and tryed to run into him as he looked into his mirrow on his fender and that he had been driving for 5 yrs and wouldnt do something like that...well after i got the seat pulled out of my butt where i could talk ,i told him if he had looked in his passinger mirrow he would have seen me in his door window and he kept saying how he had 5yrs. experiance and wouldn't do something like that...after a couple day i called the swift number in the recruting books to report this guy ,i got a recording and got to laughing so hard i had to redail to to hear it again as it would explain why they had such low qualty drivers.call their number if you want a good laugh.

i got another good laugh when a j.b.hunt requiter called me one day wanting me to drive one of their trucks for .31cents a mile when i was getting 34.5cents amile driveing another company's truck before i started driving my own truck .he offered me 82cents amile to pull one of their trailers if i had a 1995 or newer truck and then he went on to brag about how much profit the jb hunt company was clearing each year.i got to thinking they paid more than that to broker out some of their excess loads to a company i used to drive for and it was all i could do to keep from being impolite to him and laugh at him on the phone.

as redtick said a dvd recording could be made to show what is needing in a dogs gait and struture and and im sure ukc could find dogs with good and bad gait to show the difference.i once had to show a woman the difference in the bad gait her one young dog had campared to the good gait her other dog had by letting her watch then being led side by side .there's a lot that could be put on a tape or dvd to help educate some of the judges that dont get to witness these things on a regular basis..

i've been driveing semi since 1983 and commerical trucks since 1979. and feeding coonhounds since 1971 and started out in the old school of hardknox with the dogs and the trucks and am still learning something new all the time still.

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Last edited by wildbill on 09-07-2003 at 06:46 AM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: illlinois
Posts: 1902

some good ideas and comments on my original comment. showing and judging, a coonhound, can be a learned processed, through BOTH teaching and experience. one balances the other. nothing is better than experience....you can read all the books and watch all the tapes, or dvds...and still NOT grab the education! ANY DOG SHOW IN T.V....CAN HELP!! just watch and observe. a fellow judge can't make the seminar...told him...go to your own kennel...set-up each one of your hounds and look at them and give an over-all critique. have someone gait them for you and note differences. watch and work...it's hard for me to put into words exactly how i personally feel in regards to learning the correct structure, movement and everything else needed for "a good eye" in judging conformation. yes...we all hear the same remarks...judge picked their breed, or their buddy, or the handler and not the hound! and on and on. and sorry...it won't ever go away or stop. i do my own learning process and am lucky to have friends that breed and show other breeds of dogs..big asset...no doubt. locally we see some of the same people judging alot. seems clubs want a master of hounds AND a bench show judge. most clubs up here use their own members to save costs. some judges charge and some of us don't. i've "donated" my gas and time for years and will always do so as it is strictly a hobby and enjoyment. smaller clubs just can't afford to pay sometimes as they don't get enough entries!! nothing wrong with asking for gas expenses...especially as they are now. and in the future i plan to if distance is far away. again, each one's choice. but do keep in mind the size of event expected. unfortunately, some of the clubs dropped their shows because of lack of entries ?! and clubs up here are terrible in their support of one another?! which really hurts their entries over-all...think about that also. back to main post...it will be costly for 3 days. won't argue that!! roifl!! but maybe if we can get a good turn-out and all the "wrinkles ironed out" on something like this? it will be put in other areas of the country. maybe ukc could consider setting this seminar up in other parts of the country...food for thought.

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