Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Northwest Arkansas
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How would you score this? Dog trees, coyotes start moving toward him, he's not treeing as hard, but the 2 min. never gets him. When we get to the tree he's chewing on something on the ground next to a log. About 20 feet from him he jumps on tree about 6" in diameter 15' tall maybe 6' from log. At the log is a dead coon just killed, obviously by him, but up tree is a possum. Would you plus the score because he showed me the coon, however a question was brought because of the possum. Why can't it just be easy?

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Plus his strike and delete his tree for the coon caught on the ground.

Then he has to be struck back in and treed back in again for the possum tree. If he holds then you shine the tree and see if there is a coon up there to save him, otherwise he's minused both ways.

If he's a NtCh and there's no coon to save him in that tree then he's scratched.

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You are really going to start one with this one. I’m going to say that you score him on what he was handled on. I think you would have to handle him on the coon in order to be scored on it. jmo

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
Plus his strike and delete his tree for the coon caught on the ground.

Then he has to be struck back in and treed back in again for the possum tree. If he holds then you shine the tree and see if there is a coon up there to save him, otherwise he's minused both ways.

If he's a NtCh and there's no coon to save him in that tree then he's scratched.

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I wouldn't think you would have to have handled him on it, you seen the coon caught on the ground. The rule doesn't say you have to handle the dog there, just that the strike is plussed for any coon caught on the ground. You could be right though. I would just think you could give the dog the coon caught on the ground since you don't do tree time/shine time or anything else when they catch one but run in and try to keep them from killing it.

I honestly don't know how UKC would see this since he wasn't handled on the caught coon but you clearly seen him chewing on the coon and he only went 20 feet to the tree.

I mean it could really get convoluted if you were going down that road, minus tree points for leaving the caught coon, then minus strike and tree for the possum tree, except you can't score tree points on a caught coon so you would have to delete the tree points leave the strike open then minus the dog both ways on the possum LOL.

It is a bad break cause it likely came out of the same tree the possum was in, but you still gotta score the possum.

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Last edited by Rip on 02-13-2010 at 10:06 PM

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You are correct that is what the rule say but I don’t think you could just see a dog catch a coon on the ground and plus him without handling him. What if the possum never come into play and he just run off before you could handle him? If I was pleasure hunting I know what I would think. The possum was eating a dead coon and my dog found it and chewed on it for a little while before he finished the possum track. If I was on a comp hunt then my dog definitely caught him and killed him. LOL

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See he only went 20 feet though. You score dogs at holes in the area, dogs on caught coons in the general area. Only one dog has to show you the hole/caught coon.

So if it was only 20 feet away and handled without a possum in play it would get it's strike plussed and it's tree deleted.

The possum is the one that throws the monkey wrench into the equation cause it didn't just leave, the dang thing left and treed a possum LOL.

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Yes Rip only one dog has to show it for other dogs that are handled close by to be scored on it but they didn’t have a dog showing it with him being handled close by he was the only one there and he left it. Now with that being said if he was handles 20' away without the possum being in play then you are right nothing would have been said but that isn’t what happened. I also could be dead wrong and it is just like you say. I don’t know.

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minus for leaving coon and minus or scratch for possum

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Ok I think I got it. As soon as he was seen chewing on the coon his tree points were deleted. He messed up when he left the coon and then proceeded to do something else he could be scored for. I think that is the key. He didn’t just walk away he did something else that needed to be scored.

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Right, but you have nothing to minus the dog for cause his tree points are deleted automatically. You absoluteyl positivley can NOT minus the dog for leaving the coon cause no rule allows you to. You have to delete the tree points as soon as you see him with the coon, so he doesn't have any tree points to minus.

His strike is still open so he would be minused both ways on the possum.

That is if he had to be handled to get his strike plussed on the coon everybody seen he had in his mouth.

If not then it would be like I said the first time.

And he's only scratched if it's under NtCh rules. Open registered is just minus.

Stinkin possum LOL.

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the tree was only 6 feet from the dead coon. when we got within 20 feet he jumped on the tree and started treeing. The coon had just been killed because it was still warm.

Last edited by treemonster on 02-13-2010 at 11:10 PM

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the dog has to show end of trail if he shows it on possum
then so be it.if the coon did come dwn then the dog should have not back track.

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So he only moved 6 feet total, so he was still within reach of the coon when he was treein the possum? Are you sayin the coon was at the bottom of the same tree he treed up? If so you are opening up the fact that there was a coon and possum in the same tree and then it doesn't matter about the possum, just delete tree and plus the dog on the coon and move on.

Man what a mess.

If it was not under the same tree it would be like I said, and depending on what UKC says about givin him his strike (I know you delete the tree as soon as you see the dog with the coon in it's mouth, what I don't know for sure is if you can plus his strike the same way you delete his tree, when you see it.)

That's the only thing I'm not sure about, can you plus his strike at the same time you delete his tree.

So if you can plus his strike it would be delete tree, plus strike on coon, minus strike and tree on possum.

If you can't it would be delete tree on coon, minus strike and tree on possum.

And he's scratched if it's a NtCh cast LOL.

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dog gets benfit of dout is he treeing up or dwn on the ground
chewing a coon?

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This was just a club hunt so no real gain or loss, but what a question. Has to be the only time a dog would get in trouble for being on the tree like he's supposed to. Possum and coon must have been sharing same food source and coon didn't make it up the tree.

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why would you not minus him on tree when he left even if you saw the coon when he left the coon is no longer part of the equation then you minus again for possum

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quote:

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Originally posted by wishiwashunting
How would you score this? Dog trees, coyotes start moving toward him, he's not treeing as hard, but the 2 min. never gets him. When we get to the tree he's chewing on something on the ground next to a log. About 20 feet from him he jumps on tree about 6" in diameter 15' tall maybe 6' from log. At the log is a dead coon just killed, obviously by him, but up tree is a possum. Would you plus the score because he showed me the coon, however a question was brought because of the possum. Why can't it just be easy?

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quote:

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Originally posted by patches9452
why would you not minus him on tree when he left even if you saw the coon when he left the coon is no longer part of the equation then you minus again for possum

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dogs - 225 possum

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
Right, but you have nothing to minus the dog for cause his tree points are deleted automatically. You absoluteyl positivley can NOT minus the dog for leaving the coon cause no rule allows you to. You have to delete the tree points as soon as you see him with the coon, so he doesn't have any tree points to minus.

His strike is still open so he would be minused both ways on the possum.

That is if he had to be handled to get his strike plussed on the coon everybody seen he had in his mouth.

If not then it would be like I said the first time.

And he's only scratched if it's under NtCh rules. Open registered is just minus.

Stinkin possum LOL.

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It would be nice to hear what a moderator would have to say about this also.

It was like what treemonster said with the dog and dead coon only 6 feet from the tree that he jumped back on and started treeing. It could be argued that the dog got the coon out of the tree or the coon wasn't up a big tree so he bailed to try and out run the dog when caught.

This happened to a friend of mine. So I would say delete tree points for coon caught. But the possum had me bumbled as to how to score.

Any other opinions on this?

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I THOUGHT TREEMONSTER SAID HE WENT 20 FEET AND JUMPED ON A TREE

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You have to handle a dog on a tree or a dead coon ect. to score on it. You can in NO WAY score anything without the dog being handled on it. Just a bad break. He left what he was doing and finished on something wrong. Just like if you saw two dogs treed together and the judge says handle them and before you get a hold of one it runs off.. sorry but he don't get to be score on that tree. He is minused his strike and tree because he left that tree and obviously quit his track as well.

You would have struck for 100 and treed for 125. Tree minused for him being on the ground and not showing a tree/hole or staying with the coon. Just like him getting off a tree and sniffing on the ground 6 feet away. Minus. (How did you not know that the dog didn't tree the possum first and then got off the tree to chew on dead coon for a bit, and went back to his true tree?)Then I would have stood there and made you tree on the small tree. Then he gets another 225 minus/scratched for being on the possum. So I would have you at 350 minus or scratched being on a NTCH or GRNT cast. That's how I would have judged you.

If a dog is treed on my scorecard and we get there and he does not show me a hole, or tree, or stick with whatever he has killed till I leash him, then all possible scores on my card are elidgable to be minused. He did not show me end of his track. He left it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
You can't minus the dog tree points for the coon because no tree points exist for him to be minused.

As soon as you see a dog with a coon caught all tree points are immediately deleted. If they are deleted then they don't exist and can't be minused.

That why you can't minus him on tree for leaving, he didn't have any points to minus.

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