Registered: Jul 2009
Location: St Petersburg, Florida
Posts: 156

Question came up on another forum regarding if a dog with an AKC limited registration (offspring not eligible for registration) could receive a full single registration from UKC, and have puppies then eligible for UKC registration?

The registration form seems to indicate this would be possible. If so, I would strongly disagree...one major goal of AKC limited registration is to discourage breeding that dog.

explanations?

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PK Lichtenberger

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Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1057

This is true. Dogs with Limited AKC registration can be registered in the UKC and any puppies resulting from any breeding can be registered.

While many of us do not like this policy on the part of the UKC, but it is their policy, and they are not required to respect or honor AKC registrations, just as the AKC is not required to respect or honor UKC registrations.

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Registered: Apr 2007
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Posts: 16559

The information is correct. Dogs that are on a limited registration with AKC can apply for full registration with us, however, in addition to the other requirements for UKC registration, we also require 3 color phots of the dog. (1 from each side & 1 from the front, all with the dog in a standing position).

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Registered: Oct 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 99

quote:

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Originally posted by Russell Smith
The information is correct. Dogs that are on a limited registration with AKC can apply for full registration with us, however, in addition to the other requirements for UKC registration, we also require 3 color phots of the dog. (1 from each side & 1 from the front, all with the dog in a standing position).

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location: St Petersburg, Florida
Posts: 156

I'm disappointed to confirm this. It does show a lack of respect for the breeder's contract, and the intention of the breeder.

Quite honestly, the post stated "some crap registries" would give full registration based on an AKC limited registration, that clearly states "offspring are not eligible for registration."

I don't understand WHY UKC would not respect that breeders do limited registrations for a reason.

I love UKC and the fact that it stresses owner involvement, and performance, but I feel this is a major blow. I will never be able to convince people to dual register with this policy. I believe it's a bad long term policy for the organization.

I understand that breed disqualifications would not result in full registration for a dog, but how can you tell by a photo?

Dogs with height requirements, for example...improper bites I think are DQ's for some breed. I think the example Catfood just gave would be caught, but not the others?

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PK Lichtenberger

AG1 ALBISS UACH Prize My Eyes Blackfin Tuna TDI

Fishdogs famous Flounder,RN, TDI
AKC 2010 ACE Award Nominee

URO1 AG2 ALBISS ALBIMBS UCH FishDogs Yellowtail Snapper, RE, AXP, OJP, CC, TDI
(2012 ACE Award Nominee)


www.holdmypaw.org
The true story of how Snapper became a Therapy Dog
(100% of purchase price goes to support developmentally disabled adults and children at PARC, Inc. a 501c(3) Non Profit Organization

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1253

The AKC limited registration will NOT prevent a dog from being bred against the breeder's wishes - it only prevents the resulting offspring from being AKC registered. Where do you think puggles and labradoodles come from?
If a breeder feels that a dog should not be bred, there are much better and more effective ways to do this.
Do a search on this forum and you'll see lots of ways to control breeding rights better than AKC Limited Registration, which many people consider just a joke....
Laurie

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location: St Petersburg, Florida
Posts: 156

I understand that the AKC Limited Reg paper can't prevent buys from breeding their dogs. Unfortunately the only way to truly prevent it is the alter the puppy before the owners get their hands on it. Requiring proof of alteration before the puppy reaches breeding age is a start but not foolproof.

My objection is that UKC is constantly slammed for being a "lessor venue," and as I quoted "a crap resistry," yet we talk about judges withholding awards in single dog classes if they don't feel the dog is breeding material (even if it is a rarity), and doing the best for the BREED.

How does it help the breeds to allow puppies to be registered from parents who "shouldn't" have been bred in the first place?

How can I argue the positive aspects and integrity of UKC, when they completely disreguard the obvious intention of the original breeder?

Full registrations are for BREEDING - don't allow people to register puppies from a breeding that should have never happened!

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PK Lichtenberger

AG1 ALBISS UACH Prize My Eyes Blackfin Tuna TDI

Fishdogs famous Flounder,RN, TDI
AKC 2010 ACE Award Nominee

URO1 AG2 ALBISS ALBIMBS UCH FishDogs Yellowtail Snapper, RE, AXP, OJP, CC, TDI
(2012 ACE Award Nominee)


www.holdmypaw.org
The true story of how Snapper became a Therapy Dog
(100% of purchase price goes to support developmentally disabled adults and children at PARC, Inc. a 501c(3) Non Profit Organization

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 16559

We review the application and the photos, and make each decision on a case-by-case basis. Of course we would not give a dog registration with us if the photos showed that a dog did not meet our breed standards.

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location: St Petersburg, Florida
Posts: 156

but that's my point - you can't tell by pictures. How do you see an indescended testicle or undershot/overshot height faults, etc?

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PK Lichtenberger

AG1 ALBISS UACH Prize My Eyes Blackfin Tuna TDI

Fishdogs famous Flounder,RN, TDI
AKC 2010 ACE Award Nominee

URO1 AG2 ALBISS ALBIMBS UCH FishDogs Yellowtail Snapper, RE, AXP, OJP, CC, TDI
(2012 ACE Award Nominee)


www.holdmypaw.org
The true story of how Snapper became a Therapy Dog
(100% of purchase price goes to support developmentally disabled adults and children at PARC, Inc. a 501c(3) Non Profit Organization

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Registered: Dec 2009
Location: UTAH
Posts: 547

An idea might be for the breeder who doesnt want the dog bred to have it spayed/neutered before it even goes to the new owner. Since some folks are not trustworthy enough to follow a contract deal and not breed the animal in question. The only way to insure the dog doesnt get bred is to fix it. Registration is not the only answer. And we cant ask the registrations to do what we want with our puppies. Hmmm. Just a thought.

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1253

If you want to maintain control of a dog that you bred, any of these will prevent a dog of your breeding from circumventing your wishes.
1. Pediatric spay/neuter before it leaves your place.
2. Withhold all registration until you get proof of spay/neuter (and have that in your contract).
3. Register it with UKC with you as owner, and don't sign it over to the new owner until it is spayed/neutered.
4. Register it yourself with UKC in the co-ownership, using 'and' instead of 'or' - then your signature will be required for everything.
5. Register the litter with the UKC, and then withhold the individual papers - then it cannot be single registered without your knowledge and permission.
6. Include a provision about UKC registration and/or breeding in your sales contract, with a provision for a large monetary penalty if it is breached. Include a provision of mandatory co-ownership with other registries.
7. Screen your buyers very carefully - if you don't trust them enough to sell to them without a co-ownership, don't sell them a dog.
8. Be helpful and supportive, and keep in close touch with your puppy buyers.
As you can see, there are lots of ways to keep some amount of control over dogs that you produce without UKC having to be the 'dog police'.

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 16559

Very well put, Laurie! Thank you for your insights.

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Great white north
Posts: 1

Laurie seems on the ball !

UZ PeopLes froM oNtarIo CanaDa ares reLLy Smart!

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 16559

Laurie certainly has some great advice!

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Registered: Dec 2015
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I understand that the "integrity" of the breed has to be protected, but I do have a concern about the breeders integrity. I have been looking for lab pups for awhile now,
all the pups I have seen or checked on, should be well above average on their health inspections. My dilemma
is this: the price of the pup is $1200-1500 (some $2000) with limited registration. The price of the full registration is $2500-3000 (some $4500). I can get that from day one of receiving the puppy as long as I put up the $$. So it seems to me that this is just a ploy to gouge the buyer. I have purchased many animals in my lifetime, never have I been charged double for a piece of paper because the breeder is "protecting" their line. I'm calling you know what on that. I'm all for capitalism, but this is pretty far
from integrity. I realize A LOT of people should not be
breeding dogs, but for some of us that have experience in breeding and maybe want to have one litter 3,4, 5 years down the road, to have to pay that kind of money, well it just seems like extortion to me.
This is my two cents, and I am not trying to start anything.
This seems like it should be illegal. I really wonder if this
is legal? I have a poor opinion of AKC and this just goes
right along with it.

If someone has some common sense reasons why
this is plausible, I would certainly like to hear them.

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 16559

I believe the seller can set the fees how they want to. I do not think this is illegal, even though it could be considered morally wrong.

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