Registered: Aug 2006
Location: munfordville ky.
Posts: 1166

ether i'm dumb as a rock or this rule is plain as can be !!

if dog is not working as part of cast & holding 1st strike or 2nd strike ect. ALL ALL ALL STRIKE POINTS WILL BE OPEN TO OTHER DOGS !!!!!!!!! after coon have been treed & seen in 2 seperate tree's.

dont this rule just reach out & slap you in the face & tell you ALL STRIKE POINTS !!!!!! why try to twist this around, it reads pretty dagone clear to me that ALL STRIKE POINTS WILL BE OPEN TO OTHER DOGS !!!!

MAYBE I'M MISSING SOMETHING I DONT EVEN SEE HOW YOU CAN QUESTION THIS RULE. READS PRETTY CUT & DRY TO ME !!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Weyers Cave Va
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I'd say the hard part of that rule is knowing WHEN a dog isn't working as part of the cast.

What happened in the World Hunt saturday night didn't sound like a dog that wasn't working with the cast.

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 954

I think your right on that, the only thing that could effect us out here on theses computers is the time being delayed. I am wondering if there could of been a dog or 2 holding strike points more than an hour. Time they walked and scored trees. Even then they scored 2 coon in different trees.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: California
Posts: 999

quote:

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Originally posted by HOBO
I'd say the hard part of that rule is knowing WHEN a dog isn't working as part of the cast.

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 954

Basicly its a dog not covering or not getting treed, and their just holding the strike position closed.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 2057

Roughcreek, there are two questions being raised though..

1. Why was it not scored that way in the World hunt?


2. Why would the rules want to award the ''second '' dog with 100 strike points , when the'' first'' dog that treed a coon only got to go back in for 25 points ??

Do you see the problem with the rule now? This rule can punish the fastest dog to tree a coon.

Honestly , it is rare for it cause a problem , BUT I did have TWO cast this summer when it came up . I still think the rule needs addressed.

I'd even be satisfied with it just saying , '' you always turn back in for next available position '' and just leave it there... At least it would be simple that way..

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Last edited by longshot on 09-28-2009 at 11:26 PM

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9282

In today's world this rule has become an issue and needs addressed. Until then it is as simple as it states "after two coon OR one hour has elapsed" all strike positions become open again. Rule 7 doesn't use the term consecutive so it hasn't been interpreted as such.

With the option to recast it does lend even more concerns of being unfair to the dog who treed the first coon. I guess the handler may want to consider that if he does have the option to hang onto his dog until after B is scored. ??

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Registered: Jul 2009
Location:
Posts: 330

quote:

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Originally posted by Allen / UKC

With the option to recast it does lend even more concerns of being unfair to the dog who treed the first coon. I guess the handler may want to consider that if he does have the option to hang onto his dog until after B is scored. ??

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Hmmm that sounds familiar.

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: West Ky
Posts: 744

In my opinion when they started letting you recast they should have done away with the two coon deal.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 2057

Thanks Allen for looking into it . I'm sure it can be fixed in the future..

Until then , the message board hunters will hash it all out...

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Deep Run, NC
Posts: 30

I am about to agree with some of the money hunters out there. In the hunts they hunt in there is not many questions concerning the rules. In UKC it seems that someone is always trying to twist the rules, or acts like they don't understand the rules, especially since the rules are simply stated and are fairly easy to understand. By reading the rules it simply states that when a dog is holding a stike position and two seperate trees have been scored with plus points that the dog is considered not to be working as part of the cast. How much more easier can this be to interpret because it is apparent that if two coons have been scored in seperate trees it is obvious that this dog is not working as part of the cast and is only holding the other dogs back.

Last edited by Randy Hall on 09-29-2009 at 12:26 AM

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: munfordville ky.
Posts: 1166

THE DOG THAT WAS RECAST BEFORE THE 2ND TREE WAS SCORED HAD THE OPTION TO RECAST OR STAY ON LEASH. IN THIS CASE THE HANDLER OPTED THAT RECAST, MADE A DESISION & GOT BURNED ON HIS STRIKE POINTS !! (HIND SITE IS 20/20)

IT WAS SCORED RIGHT IF DOG RELEASED OFF 1ST TREE STRUKE IN AT 25 & 2ND COON TREED that DOG STRUKE IN AT 100.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 2057

quote:

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Originally posted by roughcreek

IT WAS SCORED RIGHT IF DOG RELEASED OFF 1ST TREE STRUKE IN AT 25 & 2ND COON TREED that DOG STRUKE IN AT 100.

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 954

First page. I copied it before UKC pulled of post. I will post seconbd drop in little bit.

Last edited by Todd Miller on 09-29-2009 at 01:48 AM

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Registered: Aug 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 954

I saved it for some reason.

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Fort Valley, GA
Posts: 1194

With today's independant dogs I don' see many working as part of the cast.jmo

Glynn Holmes

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 6113

For the record...that play by play transcript was not "pulled". It got lost somehow when we signed off. I was very dissapointed after doing all that it came up missing. Thanks for reposting that Todd. I'm glad someone saved it!

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Registered: Sep 2009
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quote:

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Originally posted by glynnsdawgs63
With today's independant dogs I don' see many working as part of the cast.jmo

Glynn Holmes

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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Lincoln County, WV
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Would we have a different world champ. If he had got to strike back in at 100?

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Last edited by rattrap on 09-29-2009 at 03:58 PM

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The "non-working dog" rule uses the phrase "not working with the cast" but really this rule is about a dog or dogs tieing up strike points all night long and not doing anything productive with them. We have all drawn a cast where a dog strikes in for 100 and then procedes to waller around all night keeping the cast in that same spot the whole time because you can't call time out and depriving the other dogs of a fair chance to get that 100 strike. None of this is important in PKC or AKC because you are only concerned with winning the cast but in UKC the goal is to score maximum points and a track wallering dog holding 100 is screwing all the other dogs out of the opportunity to get those points. That is the reason for the non-working dog rule.
It shouldn't have been called a non-working dog rule, it should have been called the "can't-move-a-track-and-needs-shot" rule.
Make it simple. Anytime two coons are treed while a dog is holding the same strike points, those strike points are minused. That opens it back up for everyone and gives an incentive to breed out the track wallering dog which to me is 10 times worse than a tree monster that can't tree a coon. Forget the 1 hour part of the rule. No judge in the history of UKC hunts has every started a 1 hour clock when a dog strikes for 100 so how could he possibly know when that hour is up?

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Registered: Jul 2008
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Posts: 118

Rough wrote:

"THE DOG THAT WAS RECAST BEFORE THE 2ND TREE WAS SCORED HAD THE OPTION TO RECAST OR STAY ON LEASH. IN THIS CASE THE HANDLER OPTED THAT RECAST, MADE A DESISION & GOT BURNED ON HIS STRIKE POINTS !! (HIND SITE IS 20/20)

IT WAS SCORED RIGHT IF DOG RELEASED OFF 1ST TREE STRUKE IN AT 25 & 2ND COON TREED that DOG STRUKE IN AT 100."


This is why this rule does not reach out and slap me as obvious.

First, I am fairly new to competition hunting.

Second, my hound tends to split tree off on his own tree.

A few times now, he trees, then a second dog trees, and two other dogs are still out on that strike.

We score my tree, I leash my dog, we go score other tree.

Now I am told I can release my dog for only 25, as two dogs are still out on the original strike, and have not yet treed.

So BOTH of our dogs go back out for 25.

It SOUNDS like, even if the rule is so easy for many of you to understand, that there are PLENTY of hunting judges out there who do NOT get it, and I would be very interested in LEARNING HOW to interpret this rule, if anyone can help clarify!

I have read ALL of the posts on 3 or 4 different threads now about this rule, and now I think I am more confused then ever.

(Oh, and those other two hounds never did tree, so this rule says that we would have had to listen to them bawl around UNTIL an hour passed, and then we could have recast for 100 and 75 respectively?)

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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: New Market Va
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Falling off a tree in to Flooding Stream and then Fighting his way out of the and back to the Tree is Called "Leaving the Tree" ???

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: California
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Thanks to Randy Hall's post I FINALLY understand what the heck this rule is talking about!! Too bad it wasn't written exactly like that in the rulebook, but I guess it needs to be reworded anyhow.

I've never seen it applied and I'm not sure I've ever seen a situation where it could have been applied.

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location: KY
Posts: 120

no way this rule should come into play unless there is atleast one dog holding strike points and doesnt tree on either of two trees with coons seen in em, if the dog off of the first tree goes back in for 25 then the dogs off of second tree cant strike in above it until after they tree another coon i.e 2 coons in a row without the other dog treeing.

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Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:

---

Originally posted by HOBO
I'd say the hard part of that rule is knowing WHEN a dog isn't working as part of the cast.

.

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