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Iron Bridge Inc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 373

Grand Night Champions

Does anyone Know if there is a way to find out how many hunts it has taken to get a dog to Grand Night? I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers or anything but it seems to me for the people who have to have all-grand dogs there should be some kind of database that you could look up and see how many hunts it has taken some of these dogs to become Grand Night. I believe it would also be helpful to see how many dogs they had to beat to get that win and if the handler was also the judge. I know all factors could never be put into a database but at least a few I have mentioned. Maybe there is a creature like this that exists if so let me know. Please let me know how you all feel about this also. It just seems you look at these hounds and they are grand nights but I always wonder how many hunts it took them to make it and how much competition they actually had. Remember I'm not knocking anyones dog but we all have ran across a Grand Night dog that makes you wonder. Thanks for any inputs you have.

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Old Post 09-15-2009 02:24 AM
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scott shaw
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Neenah,WI.
Posts: 498

How many hunts they were in might not tell the story either,
One of the best Walker males I've seen I hunted with alot
years ago. He could tree any kind of track and was an awesome lay-up dog and a good reproducer. He won eleven casts in
a row to finally make nite champion. He never got a nite champion
win even though he won most of his casts and quite a few with
big scores. Someone always had a few more points. He finally
gave up and hunted a couple young dogs out of him to grand
nite champion that had better luck.

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Old Post 09-15-2009 02:45 AM
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hntwitcurs
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2006
Location: streetsboro ohio
Posts: 256

scott i feel what your sayin i had 3-2nds 1-4th 2-3rds and 1-5th before i got the first to make ntch and with good scores 925 775 850 and then finally got my first with 425 also now i have like 7 or 8 ntch cast wins but only two wins to grand you can only beat the dogs your in the woods with thats one thing i like about pkc they reward cast winners

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Old Post 09-15-2009 02:51 AM
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Frank M
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2009
Location: Genesee Co. Michigan
Posts: 353

Wins to GrandNtCh

I know I was hunting a little English female that only needed 1 win to finish her to GrandNtCh. It took me 5 cast wins to get it though. It seemed like every time there was only 1 cast of NtCh's I would make a mistake, if there was 2 or more I would win my cast but not enough points to get the win.I had this dog in 10 UKC hunts befor I got her finished out to GrandNtCh. I have also hunted her in 6 PKC hunts and have 3 cast wins with her, total of 150.00 won.You can only beat the dogs in your cast on any given night and then only hope for the best. I'm hoping to get this little dog qulifed for the world hunt next year but who knows.

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Old Post 09-15-2009 03:59 AM
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corky crowder
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2005
Location: virginia
Posts: 6317

another thing i would want to know is was the dog hunted over a wide area or was it only hunted where it could be taken to its home hunting ground

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Old Post 09-15-2009 04:00 AM
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Iron Bridge Inc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 373

Grand Nights

I would also like to know cast wins and who was the guide. Pretty simple database if you ask me. Yes I've been on casts where the best dog didn't win and also casts where my dog did a good job and won the cast but when you get back to the clubhouse some other dog comes in with a higher score and is questionable. Here again if we had the judges name and whether or not he was judging his own dog or not. I still feel we would see trends in the hunts and who is being legit and who is not.

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Old Post 09-16-2009 02:29 AM
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jackback
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1536

Maybe a personal biography should be published about every Grand Night Champion so that all of you would be satisfied...

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Old Post 09-16-2009 03:02 AM
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HOBO
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Fredericksburg Va
Posts: 10693

This has been brought up before and UKC said they didn't keep track of how many hunts a dog has been in.

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Old Post 09-16-2009 03:07 AM
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honalieh
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1390

Databases

Databases. Garbage In Garbage Out (GIGO). Databases work great for statistical evaluations of the data in the database. They are not of much use in evaluating coondogs.

The only reliable way I know of to evaluate coondogs is to actually hunt with them.

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Old Post 09-16-2009 04:52 AM
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larrypoe
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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: bronaugh,MO
Posts: 2595

Re: Databases

quote:
Originally posted by honalieh
Databases. Garbage In Garbage Out (GIGO). Databases work great for statistical evaluations of the data in the database. They are not of much use in evaluating coondogs.

The only reliable way I know of to evaluate coondogs is to actually hunt with them.




exactly.


I know a World Ch who was hunted in every local hunt untill he was over 6 before he got a first to make ntch. 6months later or so he was and still is the only Plott to ever win the UKC world hunt.

I know a super super nice dog that had like 40 places and was about that age before he ever got a first. Won 5 strait ntch hunts to grand out after that and won GRNTCH at English days one night.

Neither was from lack of handler power.

Ive also seen some absolute duds make GRNTCH in 8 or 10 hunts from almost sheer luck.

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Old Post 09-16-2009 05:55 AM
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WLDCHINSANEJANE
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 1055

Why would it matter

Theirs no way ukc could find out half of the stuff because the score card aren't even turned in. They are kept on file for a year but unless theirs a complaint they are never looked at. That would be a lot of paper work too and I really don't think it would matter. I think a dog should half to win out of its local club and from different guides but it will never happen. I know around here, most dogs that gr.nt. out are normally deserving of it. Theirs just to much competition not to be.

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Old Post 09-16-2009 12:35 PM
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big_boss
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Registered: Sep 2009
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I see what youre saying IRON, it would be nice to know how many hunts that dog had been in and was it the same 2 clubs he got all his wins at. It's kinda like my english dog i got a win toward grand with 25+ about 4 weeks ago but the thing is the score doesn't tell the whole story just like that 25+ win was in a huge thunderstorm. It woould be nice to see however how many hunts a dog has been to with it's ukc # but that would be to much work im told.

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Old Post 09-16-2009 01:41 PM
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walkerdog2009
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Registered: Sep 2009
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Posts: 80

just

hunt with the stud becalws that is the onley way you will know he is a COON DOG becalws papers dont tree coon

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Old Post 09-16-2009 05:59 PM
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Virgil
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2710

I agree that you should hunt with the stud or some of his pups. Papers and titles can't tell you everything. Just as some have mentioned dogs that granded out easily and were nothing special as coondogs some of the best dogs never finish out in the hunts because of one thing or another.

My uncle had a dog that never made it past NtCh even though he was without a doubt better than most dogs that do grand out. He had over 300 points toward NtCh before he got his first place win which he got at Bluetick days. This dog was never hunted in any hunt smaller than a state level hunt or breed days hunt. He could have taken him to local club hunts and granded him out easy but never did.

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Old Post 09-16-2009 07:12 PM
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Iron Bridge Inc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 373

Inputs

Thanks to all who have added to the thread like I said I'm not trying to make anyone look bad it was just a thought I had and was wondering about. I don't have to have an all-grand to hunt but I do have to have a true coondog. I agree titles and papers don't tree coon, heck for that matter I don't even have to have a pretty hound it just has to be a coondog. So if any one is up in east central Iowa and wants to go for a hunt just give me a call. Anyone is welcome as long as your not rude, beligerant or drunk. Thanks again, Ron # is (563)212-0736

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Old Post 09-17-2009 05:05 AM
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