Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

I know we all like early starting pups, or most of us do, but how late a starter does one have to be before you cull it?

How long will you give a pup before you move on to another one?

I have a young female that I have been very fond of, because of her looks, her breeding, and her brains and disposition. Only one problem...she had been to the woods several times and seen some caged coons, and wasn't really doing anything.

I have been a little frustrated at her because she wouldn't even bark at a caged coon. She just wasn't gamy. I like to see a pup go wild the first time they see a coon, but this gyp didn't.

I kept her around longer than I normally would because of a variety of reasons. As I already said, she is a good looking sister and smart as a whip. Also, she was a gift from a good friend of mine. Thirdly, her mother was one of the few pups that were ever raised out of my all-time favorite male dog, Uchtman's Ranger VI. Her mother is dead, so there won't be any more of them.

To make a long story short, something finally clicked the last day or two, and she's off to the races. She is 13 months old.

What would you have done? ANd would you breed one that didn't start until 13 months? If she finishes out well, I'm going to.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hudson, Indiana
Posts: 998

Gee whiz, a late starter at 13 months??? My best dog had never seen a coon, or been in the woods until he was four years old. Give the pup a chance to grow up a little.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: OHIO
Posts: 962

most of the stuff i have seen or owned with utchman or rambo breeding didnt start untill around a year old. not knocking anything just the way the ones i have had where.i have bought a half dozen or so with this breeding.what age do most of the ones you have raised lately start? some of the nicer dogs ive worked through the years started around a year and a half. but those early starters will spoil a man and i dont seem to have the patience for much else any more.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 319

how early they start is not nearly as important as how they finish.Absolutely the VERY best, and most productive dog I've ever owned in 60 years of hunting was a female that was thelast I had of the particular line that I have always hunted> She was hunted and would not "fire a lick" until she was over 2 years old. Then she started silent and would get most all the trees, then she began to open on track. But would ALWAYS get at least one
"layup" a night. Only dog I've ever hunted that I had complete confidence of her getting "under a 'coon" every time cut loose. She did not ALWAYS do it but often enough to make me this confident. You guessed it, she's gone,I'm OLD.but this is a "sho 'nuff" fact.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 3427

it just really depends on the person and the dawg i was almost ready to give up on my female at 12months but i liked her alot one night everything clicked and she has never looked back my male started at 7months both hounds are very nice but it made me realize hounds are different some start early some dont if you like the hound and are willing give them till at least 18months if they are not doin nothin by then it time to cull in my opinionif you have prepared them they should be doin decent in the woods by 18months i enjoy trainin pups if you see a coonhound in one maybe you should put a little extra effort into the pup i know some people like early startin hounds but some hounds are not goin start until they are ready

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

I guess I've gotten a little spoiled by early starters. The thing that was aggravating about this gyp was how much time I had put into her before she finally fired.

She was also raised running loose until she was about nine months old.

I have to admit that a lot of dogs that seem to do wonders at six months peak out early and don't always finish according to their early potential.

I like to see a dog start around 8-10 months. That way they're physically able to keep up if they want to.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 192

When I first started out coon hunting I had a Bluetick female that at 11 mo.old didn't bark at a cage coon> I listened to some guys and said cull her she should be doing something buy now.Now that I have been at it years later I would like to have gave that dog another 11 mo.don't give up yet some dogs that start early end up blowing up before there 2.good luck

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

John, Im curious...Did she go from doing nothing at all, to running and treeing? Or Was she just having problems in specific areas?

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Nu Acres, Idaho
Posts: 99

Based on your reasons of keeping her around longer I can see why but I don't have patience for dogs like that, would have been long gone in my kennel.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

quote:

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Originally posted by josh
John, Im curious...Did she go from doing nothing at all, to running and treeing? Or Was she just having problems in specific areas?

---

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: WILMER ALABAMA
Posts: 159

WOW 13 MOS. SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN RUNING AND TREEING BY 3 MOS. OLD. MAKES MY DOG SEEM LIKE OLD MAN BEFORE HE STARTED.

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Posts: N/A

I know a man that sells a lot of started dogs and he wont even put one in the woods until 11 or 12 mos old.He letts them get a little age so they can keep up and dont play as much.I own a female that was making old dogs look like fools at 9 months old then by the the time she was 17 months old she was the one that look a fool.But I didnt give up on her like I have on ones in the past and now I like her as much as any I have ever owned. Me and a buddy own her mother, she never seen the woods till we got her when she was three years old . she had layed in a pen and had pups. We got her started and finished her to grand,2nd in the PKC state and put her in the top 20 in the UKC world hunt.They never start to late but ...........somtimes they never start at all!!!!!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

Maybe I need to explain a little more...I know that most of the stuff you read in the stud ads about dogs doing all this stuff at six months old is mostly hot air. Occasionally you find one like that but not often. And some of the ones that do start that young blow up young.

The thing that bugged me about this gyp for a while was that she had no interest in game whatsoever. A coon didn't seem to trip her trigger at all.

She is as smart a bitch as I have probably ever had, and a good looking thing, so I hung on to her.

I don't expect all young dogs to start running and treeing real young, but I do like to see them gamey at a young age. A buddy of mine has a pup running loose at my house that is about four months old and will tree on a hot tree by scent when I happen to be treed close enough to the house for her to follow me to the woods, and she is coon crazy. But that doesn't mean she is anywhere near ready to start.

To put this thread in perspective, my main dog had been hunted four times when I bought her as a two year old. I don't think I have unrealistic expectations about young dogs, I just wanted to hear some thoughts from you all about how much time you give a pup before you reach what you consider the point of diminishing returns and move on.

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Registered: Not Yet
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If you put a pup in the woods like it should be and you have not caused any man made mistakes. Then if it showed no 'want to' by 16 mos then I would get shed of it, but for it to last that long I would have to have high hopes for it.Like it was out of my dogs or something like that.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central,Kansas
Posts: 423

If anyone has a good bred,good lookin bluetick between the ages of 10 months,and 18 months that there tired of feeding,and want puppy price for it.Give me a call.I like um all grown up,and ready to hunt.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Los Angeles, MN
Posts: 4236

I guess everyone has different expectations, but the real question to me is weather to breed a hound like that.
I can certainly understand your reasons for keeping her around as long as you have but would you really like to have more dogs like that?

A friend of mine has been recently struggeling with getting pups that turn out.....I know some of his foundation dogs, years ago were the later starting variety.......It makes me wonder if that is coming out in his pups today.....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

I understand the concern, and it has crossed my mind too. 13 months is not really ancient; I am just used to them being started younger than that.

I believe if I breed her to an early starting male of the same line, I should be all right, because waiting until 13 months to start isn't typical of this line.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 97

just a small off-shoot point to make on this topic. Do not let how much a dog barks at a caged coon be the only tool for evaluation of the "gameness" of a young hound.

I've seen a couple of young hounds show zilcho enthusiam when looking at a coon in a cage and then go freakin' ballastic the minute the coon waddled out of the wire. Predator/prey stuff didn't take over either because the coon wasn't running away. I honestly believe these young pups knew the difference in a coon they could lay ahold of and those safe behind the mesh. Plumb weird. They would just stare intently at the coon and wait...

One of these I have now and is an exceptional kill dog that flat hates a coon, the other was turned into a bear dog and would "stick" with a bad walking bear real good. I don't think either lacked desire or grit...they just had a lot of sense.

Still, with the majority it's nice to see a pup just go nutso over the first coon they lay eyes on... just be aware there are exceptions...

I know most experience houndsman already know this. Just chiming in....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

Every hound I ever had, that I liked, was running and treeing with other dogs before 1 year old. The rest weren't adn a couple never did.

So, I've told myself that 12 mos. is the cutoff and I think I'd be better off and be moving forward in the dogs I keep if I stuck to that rule. I'm strictly talking abput pups that I've had, that have been prepared and messed with and first taken to the woods from about 7 mos. on. If its a dog that hasn't gotten a fair chance then thats a different story.

I don't doubt for a second that one that starts later might go on to make a pretty good dog, but it never happened for me and I think the older a dog gets, the worse the odds are of it happening. Even if it does, I'd consider the dog to not be breeding material and I don't want to put time in one that is ruled out as breeding stock before it ever even gets started.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

Thanks for an honest answer, John D. That si exactly what I wanted to know when I started this thread. This is a question every hound man has to answer for himself, and I wanted to see what a few guys had as their "cut off date."

I didn't get the female in question until she was about nine months old, so I hadn't raised her the way I like to raise one. But her looks, disposition, and pedigree are exceptional, so I think I'll breed her if she makes a coon dog, even though I would have liked to see her start a little earlier.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3315

I beleive every dog deserves a fair chance. I've started several dogs that were 2 or 3 years old. I find that they progress very fast once they start. The key is a "fair chance".
One of the better dogs I've had was terified of a coon in a cage but would sure enough tree plenty of them in the woods.
A pup that has not started you have to judge what they are doing, I've seen several pups that were busy in the woods but not working with the other dogs that went from nothing to running and treeing in just 1 or 2 nights.
Judge each pup as indivuals instead of a calendar date.

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Anderson co Tennessee
Posts: 1944

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Registered: May 2007
Location: fairmont wv
Posts: 11976

i never did start a pup at 6 mons old i let them loose and go for walks in the woods when they could get around good but really never like to start 1 till they were at least 10 mons to a yr

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 139

Since this dog should be 11 years old now...How did she turn out?

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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: Medford, WI
Posts: 3312

I'm interested as well

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