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droopy_dog2004
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Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Morganton, NC
Posts: 1004

Big Named Stud Dogs?????

How many of you have ever hunted with any big named stud dogs that are talked about alot? What percent of them could actually tree a coon by themselves in style? No buckets just plain ole rough country? Just wondering cause I always here talk about how alot of big named dogs wernt and arent great coondogs themselves just great reproducers. Just curious not trying to stir up any arguements or controversial debates. Thanks

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ohme
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i've been dissappointed several times

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Oak Ridge
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5937

Re: Big Named Stud Dogs?????

quote:
Originally posted by droopy_dog2004
How many of you have ever hunted with any big named stud dogs that are talked about alot? What percent of them could actually tree a coon by themselves in style? No buckets just plain ole rough country? Just wondering cause I always here talk about how alot of big named dogs wernt and arent great coondogs themselves just great reproducers. Just curious not trying to stir up any arguements or controversial debates. Thanks


I've had the pleasure of hunting with a LOT of "big named" stud dogs. One thing is constant...they can tree coon.

Some I like better than others...some were more accurate, some were louder, some could trail better, and some...they were the "entire package", I've seen some struggle, and others make it look "easy".

Here are the "rules"....

1. Don't believe anything that you hear about someone else's dog. Jealousy and just plain ignorance are free....while owning training, promoting and maintaining a stud dog business is an expensive, and often money losing proposition.
2. Don't pass judgment too quickly. We have all seen dogs have "bad nights"...and it happens to the best of them. I've seen some look pretty bad on one night, and phenomenal the next night...
3. Just because a stud dog can tree coon after coon...that means nothing in the breeding pen. What really matters is how do his pups do out of different females

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Dwils
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i'm only 16 but hunted with all frank giddings dogs,,cord, outlaw, ranger(bisquit),, and they are as tough as any,,and i believe if a dog can git-r-done in style in the muskegon river bottoms,,,they can anywhere they are dropped

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droopy_dog2004
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Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Morganton, NC
Posts: 1004

Appriciate all the input. Oak Ridge I really like the rules you posted especially #3 because I believe that there is a big difference between coondogs & reproducers but having both in one package is nice to have but hard to find.

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Big Bawler
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Registered: Jan 2008
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i have hunted with a few big named studs in the english world and all of them have been FANTASTIC. i think alot of it has to do with the owners being real when you talk to them and not trying to tell you their dog is perfect. none are, but some are better than others and the ones ive hunted with i would lead any day of the week.

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Mike Cattron
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Oak Ridge, (Joe)

Very well put, I agree with that 100%!!!

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Ray&Luie
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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Al
Posts: 2551

Re: Big Named Stud Dogs?????

quote:
Originally posted by droopy_dog2004
How many of you have ever hunted with any big named stud dogs that are talked about alot? What percent of them could actually tree a coon by themselves in style? No buckets just plain ole rough country? Just wondering cause I always here talk about how alot of big named dogs wernt and arent great coondogs themselves just great reproducers. Just curious not trying to stir up any arguements or controversial debates. Thanks



Hey Dillon, take it from me, most of what you hear and read is hype,I like the idea that you reserched your dogs and you went back to where they came from, that shows you like what you have.iv been a round a few years in the coon hunting world, and iv heard all the arguments about great stud dogs and reproducers, trust me, more Great coondogs come from great Females than great Males. if you have a good female, i mean one that raises tree dogs then look for somthing that Inhances her qaulitys, and her brains,dont let sales talk ruin, or set back your program.

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droopy_dog2004
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Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Morganton, NC
Posts: 1004

Ray&Luie

I agree 100% about the Females reproducing because take Skeans Dolly for example. She is probably on of the most well known females around and the old Wrights Sue which in my opinion is one of the main females that started up the Yadkin River strain when she was bred to Sailor Jr and produced Pistol Pete which in return produced Jeff! Schmersals Stylish Anna and Night Heat Abby have also played very BIG roles in the walker breed. Great point you brought up Ray&Luie. Thanks

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c.salyers
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Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Kings Mtn, KY
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Night Heat Abby Was Only Bred To 1 Stud Dog
and That Cross Worked But We Will Never Know If She Was A Dominant Reproducer Or Not

At Least 2 Of Her Sisters Were

Rock River Sue & Rock River Lady

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chris baker
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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: columbia,mo.
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I think the female plays a huge role in the reproducing of top pups. My buddy and his dad have a female that will be all grand when finished that is off Mc Callister's Tack and Rock River Sue. She is a nice dog, good cold trailing hard tree dog and very accurate. They bred her to Trackman this fall and guess what, had to have me a nice female pup. I really like that female and couldn't wait for him to get her bred. Also have one about the same age out of Trackman and a grnite female off Cherokee River Little Joe. That old gal is a heck of a nice coondog also. Guess we will test out the theory of breeding good well bred females.

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lukeduke73
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I think all dogs bring a different plate to the table and everyone is looking for alittle something different and all dogs dont do as well as they can every night. so hunting with a dog 1 time really cant judge.all stud dogs I believe have proved themselves somewhere or another or they wouldnt be gr.nt. or nt.ch. thats just my opionion.

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CLJohnson
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Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Englewood TN
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ive hunted with a couple, one that really sticks out is qucik silver,hes up in new york now, but dad helped train him, and ive never seen a dog get it done like he did.

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Chris Sterrett
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Registered: Sep 2003
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Posts: 541

I have hunted with 40+ dogs that have been advertised. Some are deceased and others are still being advertised regular. Most of them treed coons. Seen some tree them in style. Others I wouldn`t want to base an opinion on one night.

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kyle ballhagen2
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i drew trackman in the pkc nationals 3 or 4 years ago and he put on a coon treeing display. he really impressed me and he is loud i mean loud.

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Old Post 11-11-2008 02:42 AM
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Lum
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Registered: Jun 2003
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I have not hunted with many of the bigger named stud dogs. The couple I have hunted with I was impressed.

Jesse Atkin's Thunder dog was nice. Tree coon in style and quickly. I was impressed

Hardwood Big Kahuna was a nice dog. Treed coons and done it right. I was impressed

Kent Well's Chrome dog is a nice hound. I hunted him quite a bit. He will tree coon and make it look easy.

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Chris Sterrett
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I liked Kahuna when I hunted with him.

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Lum
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I hunted a dog for Jerry and Chris named Oz that was a nice hound but I don't think he qualified for a stud dog but he was pretty nice.

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Cody Carroll
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i would like to hunt with kahuna. i have a 2 year old female off him that is pretty nice

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smokey7
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Re: Re: Big Named Stud Dogs?????

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
I've had the pleasure of hunting with a LOT of "big named" stud dogs. One thing is constant...they can tree coon.

Some I like better than others...some were more accurate, some were louder, some could trail better, and some...they were the "entire package", I've seen some struggle, and others make it look "easy".

Here are the "rules"....

1. Don't believe anything that you hear about someone else's dog. Jealousy and just plain ignorance are free....while owning training, promoting and maintaining a stud dog business is an expensive, and often money losing proposition.
2. Don't pass judgment too quickly. We have all seen dogs have "bad nights"...and it happens to the best of them. I've seen some look pretty bad on one night, and phenomenal the next night...
3. Just because a stud dog can tree coon after coon...that means nothing in the breeding pen. What really matters is how do his pups do out of different females



I totally agree with Joe on #3. It is totally irrelevant what a stud dog does in the woods. What matters is what his offspring does. Or the mother dog for that matter. I've saw too many times where good traits were just lost. The sire and dam had certain, unique and wonderfull qualities that just never showed up in there pups. That's the biggest dissappointment with breeding dogs in my opinion.

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Kenny Eads
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Registered: Jun 2003
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Sheep I have yet to see a pup out of a litter not have some trait from either the male or female. Be it mouth, hunt style, looks, the way it acts, ect. I have seen a few pups from buddys dogs and our own and you will always seem to find some trait that is noticable. Now be it the trait you would like to see is a different story. lol

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m4rcut
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Come hunt with the stud dog we are pushing, he hasn't made a big name yet in the stud pen but he is 100 percent coon dog and if he throws dogs anything like him they will be very very nice

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TamarackKennels
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Registered: Nov 2008
Location: gerry, ny
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this subject is very interesting
Joe I love the rules, Man, they are great.
I would also state in there, something about a good quality female that has the hunting style and the traits you like.
(When in horses, we take the good and bad traits in the mare compare them to the stallions.)
I think the same thing goes for dogs..
If somewhere the female is weak you want to find the stud to be strong in that department and vice versa..
I have had the priviledge to hunt with "big name studs" Some were great to hunt with and some werent worth a dime. JMO
The pups should speak for themselves..
then again, there is some stud dogs that get overlooked because of no titles.. either they are pleasure hunters or they cannot keep up with younger generations. I know a guy that had a nice bluetick male with no titles, he was a pleasure hunter, bred two different females. all 22 pups made coondogs.. but both females were exceptional in the woods.. all pleasure dogs..
I dont care about titles, all grand, or anything like that.. what I care about are coondogs...
Lori
ps I got a real nice pup in the woods now that gets it done with style.. he is not out of anything special.. just an ordinary english..

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smokey7
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quote:
Originally posted by TamarackKennels
this subject is very interesting
Joe I love the rules, Man, they are great.
I would also state in there, something about a good quality female that has the hunting style and the traits you like.
(When in horses, we take the good and bad traits in the mare compare them to the stallions.)
I think the same thing goes for dogs..
If somewhere the female is weak you want to find the stud to be strong in that department and vice versa..
I have had the priviledge to hunt with "big name studs" Some were great to hunt with and some werent worth a dime. JMO
The pups should speak for themselves..
then again, there is some stud dogs that get overlooked because of no titles.. either they are pleasure hunters or they cannot keep up with younger generations. I know a guy that had a nice bluetick male with no titles, he was a pleasure hunter, bred two different females. all 22 pups made coondogs.. but both females were exceptional in the woods.. all pleasure dogs..
I dont care about titles, all grand, or anything like that.. what I care about are coondogs...
Lori
ps I got a real nice pup in the woods now that gets it done with style.. he is not out of anything special.. just an ordinary english..



Back in 2002 when i bred my female to a stud dog I bred her to a male dog that was strong in the places she was weak. I got zero. It was a total outcross and the stud dog was opposite from her in most every way. What we got were shy dogs, mean dogs, and dog's that wouldn't tree at all. The good traits were nowhere to be seen. However, there were bad traits all over the whole litter that i NEVER saw from either the stud dog or my dog.

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TamarackKennels
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: gerry, ny
Posts: 309

this is what I learned from horses, breeding is a chance that is taken.. for example two world champion reining horses, both comp. each other very well.. 11 months later. a foal was born, two years past.. it was a dud head.. no brains... crazy.. bred the mare back to a totally different stud that was in someone's backyard and got another world champion reiner

also, another thing, research both sides, genetics are everything..
I am not saying I am right or wrong.. just by my experiences..
JMO

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