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Doc C
New UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Kerrville, TX
Posts: 2

Registration Help Please!

I had a litter of Labrador Retriever pups 11 months ago. Both the dam and the sire are both AKC and UKC registered. I registered the litter with AKC but not UKC.

I was contacted yesterday but one of the people I sold a puppy to and they are trying to register the puppy with UKC. Evidently, the owner of the puppy was told that she needed some type of letter from me (the breeder) before the dog could be registered with UKC. The puppy is already AKC registered and she has a three generation pedigree.

I haven't had to do this letter with any other puppies in the past and was wondering why it was needed now. What information exactly do you need in the letter?

The owner gave me a reference number 56201, if that helps find info on this particular case.

You can contact me directly ar scottydvm@hotmail.com or I'll check back in here for a reply.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Scott Chapman, DVM

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Old Post 01-22-2008 05:46 PM
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starplott
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Washington
Posts: 1401

Why do this to your buyer (s)?

Register the litter BEFORE they turn a year old and take care of your responsibilities as the breeder of the litter and give the buyer what they paid you for, which should have been taken care of 10 months ago.

If your dogs weren't UKC registered the buyers would be able to get their UKC registration on the merit of their AKC registration with no issues.

HOWEVER, by breeding UKC registered dogs, refusing to meet your responsibility to your buyers (and the registry) by registering with BOTH registeries you are creating problems for your buyer (s) and extra work for UKC to attempt to bypass your unwillingness to take care of these responsibilities; in order for the buyer (s) to get their dogs registered.

ALSO, if your litter has or is able to have PR status the PR status is stripped with single registration because the breeder did not register the litter with UKC and forced the buyer to go the back door to be able to obtain UKC registration (that is at LEAST one generation further from PR status) because of your refusal to register the litter with UKC. (giving your buyer less status with UKC registration than if you would have taken care of registering the litter)

Either way, your refusal to register the litter with UKC only creates grief for buyers that eventually decide to register with UKC because you are selling puppies that are in a sense less versatile than if you just had AKC registered parents.

Most UKC people are aware anything AKC can be UKC. Where breeders with dual registered dogs create problems is by not registering their litters with UKC making it impossible for them to obtain any form of UKC registration without going back to the breeder to have them write a letter stating they refuse to register the litter with UKC. AKC papers ONLY work to gain UKC registration if the parents are NOT UKC registered.

If you are going to own and breed registered dogs you need to take care of your registration obligations for your puppy buyers.

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Last edited by starplott on 01-22-2008 at 07:52 PM

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Old Post 01-22-2008 07:41 PM
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Doc C
New UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Kerrville, TX
Posts: 2

Seeing that "most" of the people that I sell puppies to run AKC hunt tests, I never felt a need to UKC register them. I don't see where UKC registration of the litter is MY responsibility.

Yes, my dog is CERF and OFAed. The puppies are vaccinated, well socialized, dewormed, and sent to their new homes with free Heartgard and ProPlan puppy food. That is MY responsibility.

I never refused to register the litter. Let's get that straight. I feel that I took care of "what they paid me for", which is a quality, healthy puppy. I'm not in the breeding business to make money. I bred my female hunting Lab, who happens to be fairly talented at what she does and has good conformation, and bred her to another quality dog who has a Hunting Champion title. I kept a pup, I gave several pups away, and I sold a couple of pups.

I guess that I was remiss in not reading the fine print of the UKC regulations. Sorry! I didn't realize it was going to be a pain in the hindend for folks to register their dogs or I would have registered the litter.

I would still like to have a representative of the UKC explain to me exactly what I need to do to correct the problem.

Starplott-- Go mind your own business!

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Old Post 01-22-2008 11:54 PM
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bbflabradors
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Suffolk, Virginia
Posts: 52

I don't see that you would need to write a letter for your new puppy buyer to register their pup with UKC. I am new to UKC, as all of my dogs are AKC registered. However, I have recently registered dogs that I did not breed, and nothing was required of the original breeders for me to obtain the UKC registration. Tell them to fill out the registration form, and attach a copy of the AKC registration, and pedigree and send it in. That is all I did, and I received my UKC registrations.

I don't see that you did anything wrong. I register all of my pups with AKC. The only ones we have registered with UKC are our pups that we choose to keep, so they can get more show experience before entering AKC conformation events. As long as your buyers have the pedigree, and AKC registration, they can register for UKC if they choose. Most people I sell pups to are not interested in participating in AKC or UKC events. They are more interested in getting a healthy family pet.

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Laurie

Labs are like potato chips...you can't have just one!

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Old Post 01-23-2008 12:23 PM
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Russell Smith
Moderator

Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 12087

Because the litter is under 1 year of age and both parents are
UKC registered, the new owners either have to wait till the dog
is 1 year of age before they can register it with us, or they
need a signed statement from you, the breeder stating that
you have no intention of registering the litter with us. This
statement is required because you have until the litter is up to
1 year of age to register them as a litter with us.

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Old Post 01-23-2008 12:57 PM
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AnkhuIGs
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1046

quote:
Originally posted by starplott

Either way, your refusal to register the litter with UKC only creates grief for buyers that eventually decide to register with UKC because you are selling puppies that are in a sense less versatile than if you just had AKC registered parents.

Most UKC people are aware anything AKC can be UKC. Where breeders with dual registered dogs create problems is by not registering their litters with UKC making it impossible for them to obtain any form of UKC registration without going back to the breeder to have them write a letter stating they refuse to register the litter with UKC. AKC papers ONLY work to gain UKC registration if the parents are NOT UKC registered.

If you are going to own and breed registered dogs you need to take care of your registration obligations for your puppy buyers.



This is an interesting bit of news for me. Since i am tired of individuals with Limited AKC registration applying for and receiveing FULL UKC registration. By registering my dogs UKC and then ONLY registering the litter AKC, i can neatly prevent anyone registering a puppy from that litter UKC without my permission...and its perfectly legal.

I think that is a practice i would fully support.

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Old Post 01-23-2008 02:49 PM
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IlonaVizslas
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2006
Location: MI
Posts: 413

i can neatly prevent anyone registering a puppy from that litter UKC without my permission~~

You can only prevent it for one year after that year it is up to your contract to stop them from doing so.

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www.IlonaVizslas.com
Home to "Breeze" aka: M-BISS, M-BIMBS, GRCH. Vidor's Aura, TAN

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Old Post 01-23-2008 03:59 PM
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starplott
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Washington
Posts: 1401

AnkhuIGs,

Breeding in both registries I feel your grief there!!! That is why it is the responsibility of the BREEDER to make sure things are in place to prevent that from happening (as it is OUR responsibility as breeders). It is not the registry responsibility, it is ours as breeders.

That is why you UKC register the litter and either co-own the offspring or keep the papers until the purchase contract is complete; last check UKC still allowed the breeder to keep UKC papers until alter contracts and payment has been completed according to contract. This solves UKC and those of us that volunteer from having to deal with messes between breeders and buyers. AT LEAST if you do not want to UKC register the litter have enough respect to CO-OWN the dog with AKC so it is a moot issue that doesn't have a chance of ending up on the doorstep of others.

As an APBT inspector, MOH, and BSJ with UKC I deal with these issues a LOT!

We should NOT have to put up with being called everything in the book by buyers of pups/dogs out of UKC registered stock because the breeder didn't register the litter and went with another registry, making it HARDER (not impossible) to register the dogs. People get VERY ticked off at the messenger when they have to go back and trace everything and cannot get it done with the simple process, especially when they have litters or pregnant bitches.

I get VERY tired of repeating myself and taking the brunt from issues resulting from breeders too cheap to register their litters with UKC or think they are cheating the system and pulling something off on the buyers to protect themselves with the LEAST amount of effort/money possible. (this is NOT protecting themselves, it is called 'passing the buck') These are things that are the breeders responsibility to take care of, not anybody else having it pushed on us.

There are many good people out there that we aim to assist with registration issues! The problem is breeders NOT taking responsibility to cover their loose ends with buyers is creating MORE and MORE issues with the buck passing they are doing. I personally (as a breeder) see this as breeders not taking care of their responsibilities and not a registry issue.

I have w/h UKC papers until buyer contracts were completed (both alter and financial). I've also had people call and complain to UKC demanding their papers like it is their God given right to have them despite the fact that they had not met the purchase/alter agreement fully in the sales contract. They got nowhere with UKC and eventually got the altering done to get their registration paperwork.

UKC stands behind their breeders. AKC does NOT. AKC quit standing behind their breeders when they imposed the LR (I remember the days before LR). I have strongly felt that was a farse from the word go. A perceived easy out for breeders while AKC makes bank. Breeders had more control over their dealings w/o the LR. And that is a policy that I stand behind strongly with UKC! NO LR with UKC is something as a breeder I strongly protect because it gives me MORE control over what I produce.

Now days why do buyers have to adhere to alter contracts with breeders with AKC? A determined buyer wanting to breed will go to another registry BECAUSE the breeder HAS to provide registration by AKC (another gliche the can hurt breeders at the hands of AKC that people like to blame on everything other than AKC's screwed up LR program). If an AKC buyer doesn't feel the contract needs to be adhered to they STILL have registration papers to get registered in other registries AND they can still compete their dogs or produce non registered dogs. (which you know as well as I do how much designer breeds go for, not having registration or full registry doesn't stop people from breeding your offspring, just registering them)

Having your breeding stock UKC registered doesn't guarantee the offspring will not get FULL registeration with UKC, just makes it tougher and imposes on others in dealing with what the breeder should have taken care of with the litter. Having pups UKC registered and w/h the papers until the purchase contract is met or co-owning the offspring (any registry if you do not want to register UKC) you do not want to have FULL UKC registration are the ONLY ways to guarantee your pups don't end up producing UKC registered litters.

IT COST NOTHING EXTRA TO CO-OWN and EVERYTHING is set in stone between breeder and buyer right from the start (as it should be). That gets rid of the people at UKC and those of us that deal with registration issues on our own free time having to deal with upset buyers and getting caught up in registration issues the BREEDER should have had dealth with right from the start.

IF a breeder should register with AKC and not UKC, CO OWN the puppy on AKC papers. That IS the only way to guarantee that the puppy doesn't end up in the UKC breeding pool.

I like helping people with UKC registration needs. HOWEVER, I LOATHE having to deal with issues that were the responsibility of the breeder to take care of when they bred and sold the puppy that they passed the buck on the rest of us to deal with. As a breeder myself, it REALLY chaps my butt having to take grief from buyers whose breeders didn't tie up their loose ends and left things for others to sort through and deal with at our own expense.

These issues are so VERY easily prevented at the hands of the breeder that make life easier on EVERYBODY involved.

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Old Post 01-23-2008 04:51 PM
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bbflabradors
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Suffolk, Virginia
Posts: 52

I guess my situation was different, because the ones I registered in UKC did not have any prior link to UKC through parentage. Good luck with your situation!

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Laurie

Labs are like potato chips...you can't have just one!

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Old Post 01-23-2008 07:23 PM
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starplott
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Washington
Posts: 1401

Laurie,

You are correct.

Any dog registered with AKC is able to be UKC registered with no issues if neither of the parents are UKC registered.

Just fill out the single registration paperwork, send a copy of AKC registration, and check for the fee. (except certain coonhounds who have to prove they can tree a coon and pits which have to produce a 30 min video or have their dog inspected)

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Old Post 01-23-2008 08:31 PM
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Russell Smith
Moderator

Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 12087

A coonhound whos parents are not UKC registered would have
to be registered through that breed's Association.

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Old Post 01-24-2008 12:46 PM
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