Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 152

Hi. I rabbit hunted for ten years and have the best rabbit dog i ever owned-- a twelve year old male ---and i think he can still breed a gyp. I quit rabbit hunting a couple years ago and sold five of my younger beagles and kept him and his old sister for old times sake. I got into hunting fox/coyote in pens and on the outside to. I have a three year old running walker female that would have made a good rabbit dog had i trained her to run a rabbit. She loves to run gray fox(which run like a big buck rabbit) more than anything. she runs coyotes to but she hunts and trails and runs with alot of tongue and a real loud mouth and acts much like a beagle compared to the other walkers i have seen and owned. She is small for a walker and is registerd and can trail,jump and smoke a gray foxes behind.
We love to hunt the swampers and creek bottom buck rabbits and my pack of beagles when young could run one good for we hunted the swampers most of the time but my beagles most of the time would get way behind a swamp rabbit cause they will run real fast for a long ways,,,sometimes out of hearing and never squat. I am thinking of breeding this walker gyp to my best old male beagle that i kept and try to get some dogs that hunt and run like a beagle but that will have more leg, and endurance like a walker. I wouldn't even think of this if the gyp wasn't such a good canidate to do this with along with the good male beagle. I would keep the whole litter of pups and cull what i didn't like for a rabbit dog and then breed them back to a beagle or whatever to get the dogs i want. I don't care about papers and am very interested in what you folks think pro or con. Thanks in advance for any replies......FullCry Ps i'm trying to get a dog like a harrier but i don't want a sixty pound hound but around 35 to 40 lbs and twenty inches tall or so.

Last edited by FullCry on 07-17-2007 at 05:21 AM

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Registered: Dec 2004
Location: beckley,wv
Posts: 85

if it floats your boat..then go for it...i wouldn't let anyone tell me what to hunt with...suit yourself and have fun with them. i like a purebred dog myself, but then again all i hunt are little ol cottontails and every once in a great while have a chance at a snowshoe hare. good luck.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Queen Creek AZ
Posts: 14

i have a beagle whose 18 inches tall and around 40 pounds
the other is about 16 inches and close to 35 pounds
both full beagle and can run all day. real long legs on em.

i'd like to see what you get out of this cross.

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Milton, WV
Posts: 2551

Is it an ethical practice for a beagler sportsman to set up to cross beagle with anything other then beagle?

-Jack

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 152

Hey Jack, what gives you the right to call my thought out plan unethical? I'm a houndsman not a beagler. I don't condem registerd beagles but have seen quite a few grade dogs/beagles outperform the registerd beagles IN THE REAL FIELD...not a trial.
This isn't a challenge but a fact. Have you heard of a harrier, beagle, english foxhound etc. These breeds were started out by people like me wanting a better hound for their purpose. My grade beagles nor registerd beagles I have hunted with can't run a swamp rabbit to suit me. They get the job done but due to their short legs can't seem to swim strong enough in the swamps and big creeks we hunt in to really push the swamper hard. I really don't need to explain myself to you but decided to make a stand.
I think i can come up with a hound eventually that will suit me for this special purpose and one day it may be called the Fullcry hound. Good luck to all......FullCry and in five years come run the swampers with me and lets see what happens....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: East OH
Posts: 938

What ever floats your boat.You will not know how it works till you give it a try.Watch out for the beagle police. LOL LOL Them walker dogs are over groan beagles anyway LOL

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Elkins, WV
Posts: 337

The first thing is that I think you may want to call them Balkers instead of Weegle. LOL This is reverse of what you are doing, but my neighbor had his female beagle get bred by a walker. The pups ran loose around here until they were around 5 months old. I don't know how they would have turned out on rabbits, but they sure could run the daylights out of a deer! At 5 months they were around 15 inches. I would say that they ended up just about the size that you are looking for. If you don't give it a try, then you know that you have failed. Worst thing that could happen is that you have to cull all of them. Just my 2 cents.

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Registered: May 2005
Location:
Posts: 193

i agree whith xdawg PURE BRED ONLY....

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 152

This is america, you have the right to think whatever you want to or do whatever you want to as long as it's legal or you don't get caught at it. One thing for sure, if i put the time in it that i put into my pack of beagles for ten years and i don't have to cull them all you won't ever be able to run with me here in Alabama for your lil puppies won't be able to keep up on them swamp bunnies, plus you'd never come down here and run with me cause you know my hounds would spank yours fanny......

Take care all and happy hunting

FullCry

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Milton, WV
Posts: 2551

quote:

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Originally posted by FullCry
This is america, you have the right to think whatever you want

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: East OH
Posts: 938

Jack; it all boils down to the fact " The man has the right to breed his dogs the way he wants "He did not ask if it was right or wrong in your opinion.I believe he was asking to see what expirence others had in this type of cross.
Fullcry: look for the post by Alabama John .His posts seem to have some knowledge of the type of dog you want to breed for.You can find him here and the american beagler board.

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: huntington,wv
Posts: 72

What kinda of dogs are we all trying to breed now. I mean its a simply question? Do we want more mixed breeds to try and find new things out about dogs. I say no thats why we have PURE breed dogs. So if we want more speed we should go breed to a greyhound. If we want more nose go to a bloodhound. I still say no. Thats why we have what we have now. There are plenty of differnt types of dogs from differnt lines of dogs , I'm sure there is one out there that will do what you want to. Sorry if I look at this maybe the wrong way but I still say stay with pure breed dogs.
jmorskennels

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Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Milton, WV
Posts: 2551

quote:

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Originally posted by Albert Fulton
Jack; it all boils down to the fact " The man has the right to breed his dogs the way he wants "He did not ask if it was right or wrong in your opinion."

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: East Leroy,MI
Posts: 221

What gives Xdawg the right to question your choice of breeding is that you asked for opinions pro or con. Breed what you like,but if you come onto a beagle registries site and ask about mixing the breed your going to catch some heat.


Good luck
"HAIL TO THE VICTORS"

Mike

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 152

I can take the heat, what you don't understand is yes this is a beagle board and I imagine that if i start discussing the differences between the grade (hunting beagles i have owned and do own) compared to y'alls registerd stuff, I would catch more heck than discussing this cross and my grade beagles back about eight years ago have out hunted and outran some good registerd dogs. Also get this...I'm catching heck from the walker side to and more from my foxhunting buddies than some of y'all are giving me. They talk about how slow a beagle is and how they cold trail to and say many things about a beagle that i can't repeat on here. but i know both were brought about by need of a specialized hound for different reasons.
A swamp rabbit is actually a hare.....a cottontail is a rabbit. Hares are known to run farther and faster plus the swamp bunnies are swimming alot in beaver lakes and swamp, big creeks etc. where we hunt so i need a specialized hound. My and many other packs of beagles have proven this. I talk to other rabbit hunters and most good hunters that have been hunting along time in my area say that it takes a really good dog to run the swampers and keep them going. Anyway I need a specialized dog for this so i shall see what i can come up with.
Mixing of hounds, pure bred or not has been going on since wolves became dogs. The american fox hound or the running walker hound strain was started in 1850 by crossing a black and tan hound that was built kinda like a foxhound onto english foxhounds.The foundation sire was named tenn. lead and he was stolen out of a deer chase and wound up being the best red fox hound around so he was bred back many times to english fox dogs and his own offspring to start the running walker breed and the goodman hound and trigg hound came from the walker hound and other crosses to. So, what is the difference if I come up with a strain of hound that speciallizes in running swampers?It may not work out but what if i breed intelligently and hit it just right and come up with the ultimate swamp hound ? The harrier has been around as long as beagles and english foxhounds and is rather rare....a hare hound but they way sixty pounds and came from english fox hounds and beagle cross....to much dog for me to run swampers with but they are good at their job and i want a kinda miniture harrier but it would cost too much to get a foundation gyp to breed to a beagle so hence forth I will use my smallish 35 -40 lb registerd running walker and breed back to one of the best males i have ever hunted with on swampers (beagle) then take the best dogs that come from that litter and breed back to a beagle to get a 3/4 beagle 1/4 running walker and take the best of these and depending on size breed back to a half and half or beagle or walker so......If you don't like it don't ever hunt any of them if they become famous and if they just turn out like junk then nothing lost by me but i will learn alot about breeding doing this. But at its best i would become a Wash Maupin of this time and at worst just FullCry that gave up on it.
Papers can't run a rabbit and the dog can't lay his papers down and walk through briars on them. Don't get me wrong i like registerd dogs to and if you get something grade that is awesome you will never get what a reg. dog will bring but I'm not in any kind of hound hunting for the money and snooty reg. dog owners ---not all reg. dog owners but the snotty ones need to see a grade dog outperform them papered dogs and get that grin wipped off their face......FullCry

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Grafton, WV
Posts: 376

I think its great that you are thinking outside the box and want to breed something that satisfies you. Regardless if it is purebred or mixed it is still a dog.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: Queen Creek AZ
Posts: 14

quote:

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Originally posted by Cannonball08
I think its great that you are thinking outside the box and want to breed something that satisfies you. Regardless if it is purebred or mixed it is still a dog.

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Pinson, Alabama
Posts: 59

Full Cry
Call me and lets hunt some. I think you'll like what you see after a Canecutter. 205-681-0885, Pinson, Alabama.
Read the thread I had on down the list about AKC and UKC Beagles.

Lots of folks around here run 1/4 fiest and 1/4 Bassett and rest longlegged Beagles.
Crossing Beagles with hounds is not new, but most either will start treeing or are bad to run off game like deer.

Best to try to find the small boned redbones or Black and Tans that were used for running rabbits years back.
I see many high tan Beagles that sure look like the small 15-17 inch July's. That made a good cross for rabbits.

Let us know how they turn out.

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Registered: Apr 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 152

I asked for pro and cons but my mind was pretty much made up when i started this thread. For i feel to like a dog is a dog is a dog. Actually hundreds or thousands of years ago the beagle i think came about by dwarfing foxhounds in enlgand. English fox hounds were the result of some kind of terrier, bulldog, and hound. Thanks you gents for the poistive comments. Alabama john my son and i would love to go hunting some time with you. I live in Opelika Al. I only have two beagles left now two 12 year old litter mates but they can still run for a few hours but have gotten slow. I have six walkers now also and will be cutting back on them if i can get some pups like i'm describing on here. Let's keep in touch and am going to look for your post. FullCry

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Pinson, Alabama
Posts: 59

Fullcry
I have a lot of swamp land to hunt around Childersburg which is about halfway between us I think.
Call me in January or February and bring your son.
I will have two of mine, but they are in their mid and upper 30's now!
We seldom run a cottontail, but run big rabbits that run like a fox.

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Registered: May 2005
Location:
Posts: 193

Wow the cons. Think about this, you go and purchase a beagle he is a single registered good looking dog. He runs good, even great. He does everything you want. So a couple years down the road you decide to put him in your breeding program. You breed him to your best female that you have being wanting to breed for a couple years and you do. You wait and wait and 62 days you have a litter of pups they are a little bit big, but you think well they are just healthy. To your suprise they just get bigger and bigger and they end up 17 18 inches, now what? Everything you have being waiting on is a bust and you have a litter of pups that have to be culled or made in to house pets that you hope dont ever make back in to your breeding or anybody else's. I just think that we should only breed pure bred dogs. I am sure with all the different style of beagles out there you can find the one thats right for you ..... and your comment about running in the great state of Bamma, been there, done that. I've run in just about every state out there and my dogs can handle it from canecutters to snowshoe and everything in between so nuff said...........the cons

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Registered: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 11

I don't see anything wrong with what you are wanting to do. I have never ran Beagles. I hunted bear and cat for a number of years. We would breed whatever type of dog that we thought would improve them. We hunted some Trigg x Walkers and even a Walker X Bluetick X High Tan X Trigg X Bulldog that was one of my best dogs

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: mid-michigan
Posts: 4437

quote:

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Originally posted by dady rabbit
Wow the cons. Think about this, you go and purchase a beagle he is a single registered good looking dog. He runs good, even great. He does everything you want. So a couple years down the road you decide to put him in your breeding program. You breed him to your best female that you have being wanting to breed for a couple years and you do. You wait and wait and 62 days you have a litter of pups they are a little bit big, but you think well they are just healthy. To your suprise they just get bigger and bigger and they end up 17 18 inches, now what? Everything you have being waiting on is a bust and you have a litter of pups that have to be culled or made in to house pets that you hope dont ever make back in to your breeding or anybody else's. I just think that we should only breed pure bred dogs. I am sure with all the different style of beagles out there you can find the one thats right for you ..... and your comment about running in the great state of Bamma, been there, done that. I've run in just about every state out there and my dogs can handle it from canecutters to snowshoe and everything in between so nuff said...........the cons

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Pinson, Alabama
Posts: 59

PRO:
It's a big man that will admit his dogs got skunked by a grade dog, or even worse by a pack of them. I assure you it happens all the time. Dogs get so far behind folks pick them up and drive them to the pack. After a while leave them in the truck.

Most AKC registered dogs are too slow and boring. They can trail big rabbits, but give the rabbit too much time to pull tricks. They are good at eventually straightening out cottontails checks because they get so much practice. One long check or lose after another. Take a nap until they RUN? the rabbit to you. There are exceptions I have seen, but not many.

I say its much easier to run a rabbit fast with its ears laid back running a straight line because it doesn't have time to dodge or dart and certainly not double back.

I respect Willet Randle for his comments in his book on the grade dog that walked the log. I had rather of had her than his. Good hound work is just that. Doesn't matter about papers.

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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 155

Alabama John, it takes just as big of a man to admit his grade dog got skunked by a pack of them slow papered hounds. I assure you that happens all the time as well.

If most of the AKC dogs that you have seen have been too slow and boring then you haven't seen the ones I've competed against. These aren't the exceptions, there are packs of them.

Papers won't make a hound a better rabbit dog. They won't make a hound a worse rabbit dog either.

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