Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

The breeding conversations on here are always enjoyable and very interesting. Here is one angle that I don't think we have discussed. Some of you may have seen this. Some will call in nonsense. Others might just put in their back pocket for another day.

When trying to breed the dog that does it better. Couple things come to mind. I will break this down into three categories that I think the Walker men have bred for. Hunt, nose, tree. I have seen dogs that excelled in those departments but because of where you hunt, the actual physical limits of the dog and their brains have been stretched to their limits. In other words too much of a good thing, may not actually be a good thing.

I love the hunting desire and independence in a good solid Wipeout Bred Hound. In the old days the handlers use to work on the dogs to make them independent. In the Wipeout line and I have seen it in other lines also. The dog is naturally independent. Those take a different kind of training because they are not following any pup trainer around. My point though is what the breeders wanted was accomplished almost to the point the range of the dog and the independence of the dog makes it not desirable in many situations and locations.

Second is the treeing. First and foremost accuracy should be at the top of the list and then a Stylish Tree Dog is thought to be the icing on the cake. Generally Stylish also means a hard tree dog. Me personally I will take a constant solid 60 to 90 bark per minute tree dog any day of the week over one that might look better, might impress better 100 plus a minute tree dog. Why. Because when it gets up there to about 120 plus a minute. I don't feel the physical characteristics of a dogs vocal cords can take that for extended periods at a time, night after night. What good is it breed the dog of your dreams. If it destroys its voice living up to your dreams.

Third and this is nose. Or perhaps from a post the other day. Increasing the excitability level of our hounds. Either way I have seen some with super noses. Problem is the Brains have to be connected to that nose. I think they actually are but what we are doing is what we see some people do. Some people crack under stress. Some people get into a heightened mode of movement and make mistakes under stress. Some or the greatest minds in people are spot on but not understood when they are trying to accomplish something at a half speed their minds are spinning.

Here is a short video of what I am talking about when planning a breeding and wishing for the next level. It excited me seeing this young dog wanting to tree. Then it broke my heart when I saw it wanted to tree harder than its vocal cords could stand. You here her voice cracking up some in the video.

Just be careful when you want to take things to the next level. Lot of times the next level is right on the edge of the cliff.

http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums...zpsrtwvz2nu.mp4

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Last edited by Bruce m. Conkey on 01-26-2018 at 03:18 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
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I fully agree with your thoughts.

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Registered: May 2007
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Hunt: A lot have way more than is needed with today's coon population.Some of its due to breeding for independence, a lot has to due with breeding for a hot
Nose: Hot nosed dogs win hunts. Cold tracking is almost considered an undesirable trait by most breeders, as most want quick tracks for easier
Treeing: Dogs tree more coons than they used to I agree, how could they not there's 10x as many coons? The real question is with 10× as many coon to tree, why do dogs of today make so many more slicks?

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Shane

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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Do dogs of today make more slick trees? As a whole, walker dogs of today make fewer slick trees than they did 10 years ago. Breeders wanted to breed more tree into them and they did. That peaked with Rat Attack. Then breeders stepped back and looked at what they had done. Then they took another track. They decided to breed in more hunt and independance. We will see how that ends up. Mr Conkey is right. You have to be very carefull not to be too successful at what you are trying to breed in or out.

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Registered: Jul 2004
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Bruce how old is that little female treeing in the video ? If she's a year or under could it just be her mouth hasn't
completely developed yet ? I'd be interested to know if she still sounded like that six months from now.

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Registered: May 2016
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I loved her but didn't see a future with her and someone liked her enough to want her. I haven't heard anything about her in several months.

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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Pike County, Kentucky
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quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey


When trying to breed the dog that does it better. Couple things come to mind. I will break this down into three categories that I think the Walker men have bred for. Hunt, nose, tree. I have seen dogs that excelled in those departments but because of where you hunt, the actual physical limits of the dog and their brains have been stretched to their limits. In other words too much of a good thing, may not actually be a good thing.


http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums...zpsrtwvz2nu.mp4

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People accuse me of being color blind. The truth is I will hunt red ones, blue ones, black and white ones, yellow ones, black and tan ones, or even brindle ones; Just as long as they are English!

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
[B
In other words too much of a good thing, may not actually be a good thing.
Just be careful when you want to take things to the next level. Lot of times the next level is right on the edge of the cliff.

good post Bruce...

in the other thread I mentioned that overall each generation improved with my dogs...and it seemed I went over the ragged edge or cliff as you mentioned...

Hogs, especially those that are dog smart can run for hours even in the hottest part of the summer...my dogs got to where they hunted harder and wider by the 5th and 6th generation...this became a problem because some died from heat stroke...others started to catch more like a bulldog and that will stroke out a young dog if he is trying to kill a hog a mile deep in the woods...you can't just turn these dogs out in small acreage because they were bred to stick with the track no matter what...

I think that breeding the ultimate hunting dogs might be somewhat of a juggling act once we reach a certain point in a breeding program...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
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quote:

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Originally posted by shane_atchison
Hunt: A lot have way more than is needed with today's coon population.Some of its due to breeding for independence, a lot has to due with breeding for a hot
Nose: Hot nosed dogs win hunts. Cold tracking is almost considered an undesirable trait by most breeders, as most want quick tracks for easier

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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