Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Over the years (55) my mode of operation was to get a pup out of a winning stud dog from winning family of dogs. I perhaps put more emphasis on the family behind the Sire of my pups but none the less the sire was an accomplish hound. Started in the late sixties with a young dog out of Houses Chief. Moved to breeding to Houses Tom Tom in the early seventies and progressed until today. The thin I wanted to mention today was. Many pups I got from good lines. Just did not make it here in the swamps as a coon Tree'er. But however as I look and see dogs throwing good pups and look at their pedigrees. I see well known dogs you couldn't give me another pup from. Being the grand sire of dog that seems to be reproducing well. I first noticed this with Mathis Carolina Casey years ago. I feel was a lot better positioned in a dogs pedigree as grand sire than as the sire.

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Registered: Feb 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4473

Bruce
I have been paying attention to this for about the last 12 to 15 years.
It always catches my eye for a Good Blooded Pup or Young Dog and what their Grandsire is.
Good Topic....👍👍
Tim

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

We call it the grandsire effect. I notice it alot with Trackman dams. They seem to produce better than they themselves are. I see it with a few others too but this one as a whole.

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Actually the Trackman dam is what prompted my to write this. When I see something that catch's my eye. I check out the pedigree. Trackman Dams seem to be in a lot of them. Not putting dog down. But the direct sons (2) I had out of trackman. Just didnt want to go far enough in these Fl swamps.

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Registered: May 2009
Location: Perkinston, Mississippi
Posts: 221

I have had several nice outfits over the years that were heavy Lipper bred and even a couple Lipper grand pups. The ones that I had directly out of Lipper I didn’t care for nearly as well.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

I have seen similar results with cattle. Very mixed results. Some sires can't sire good sons but there grand sons are excellent. Others make excellent sons but there grand sons are nothing special. The combination of genetics goes on and on. I'm sure coonhounds are no different.

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Registered: Jun 2013
Location: Pilot,Va.
Posts: 132

Mr. Guy Orimston has written a lot on the subject of using dams, granddams,and etc. and back massing their blood in pedigrees. A lot of us "oldtimers" have thought for a long time about line breeding on specfic females and how strongly they influence a litter's performance. I've been guilty a long time of not heeding Mr. Ormiston's research and his articles on maintaining a particular strain by using females. I ,like a lot of others believed males were the way to go.

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5637

Personally, I think the Dam is more important than the Sire. I have seen females produce very good pups from every Sire they were bred to and were bred to several different Sites. I have noticed this for the past 50 plus years. I was never s breeder myself, but knew many guys that were and they bred their producing females to several different Sires and got good pups out of each litter. If I were a dog breeder, I would look for that female that produces good pups. Dave

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Registered: Jul 2010
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 94

Bruce,
The thoroughbred race horse owners do more research and spend more money on the art of breeding. You hardly ever see a horse being advertised in any manner which doesn't list the sire and dam and always the dam's sire ! Secretariat was known far more as a grand sire than a sire when it came to the breeding and we all know he is the greatest race horse ever.

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location:
Posts: 589

I like to see the pedigree on my hunting dogs stacked with proven reproducers. I’ve heard it said that people will chase the latest and greatest titled dogs all over the country so they can flaunt a 7 generation pedigree full of titled dogs.

I could care less about the titles. It is really hard to find a really good line of hounds that reproduce above average hounds with some semblance of success.

There are very few people who have the means, fortitude and commitment to successfully breed a true line of above average hounds. It’s hard work, requires a certain degree of ruthlessness and a brutal honesty. First with themselves and then carrying over to those who buy hounds from them.

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Dan

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
Posts: 1657

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DL NH
I like to see the pedigree on my hunting dogs stacked with proven reproducers. I’ve heard it said that people will chase the latest and greatest titled dogs all over the country so they can flaunt a 7 generation pedigree full of titled dogs.

I could care less about the titles. It is really hard to find a really good line of hounds that reproduce above average hounds with some semblance of success.

There are very few people who have the means, fortitude and commitment to successfully breed a true line of above average hounds. It’s hard work, requires a certain degree of ruthlessness and a brutal honesty. First with themselves and then carrying over to those who buy hounds from them. [/QUOTE fact! truth be told

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Registered: Feb 2021
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 136

First let me say that I am not a breeder. If memory serves me right, in 60 years of coon hunting I have raised 2 litters. I do like to buy a good pup and start it. I look first for a female that has reproduced. Nothing scientific about this just my experience. Was told as a young man to look at Aunts and uncles. There is one thing about a pup out of a winning male dog: if there is something about it that doesn't suit you there will be someone who wants to buy it. So mostly I have purchased pups or young dogs out of reproducing females and Name Brand males. Has worked pretty good for me but I have never had a world champion just dogs that tree coon.

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Tom Wood

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1911

It seems when studying pedigrees…looking for a pedigree that has many grand night champions and world champions scattered throughout…buy a pup based on the pedigree to find that the pup does not meet expectations…

Common sense tells me that championship titles does not mean the titled dog is worthy of the title…the proof is in the offspring produced…

If titled dogs are a good representation of the best hunting dogs then over a short period of time the percentage of top quality pups should be high…

I think females are very important…I put more emphasis on the male on account he can produce more litters and I like that flexibility…

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