Registered: Dec 2005
Location: wakarusa, indiana
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Want to know about these dogs . Rarely hear of them anymore . Who still hunts heavy nite heat lines .

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i see alot of night heat abbie in the dogs around hear...tree dogs

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Registered: Dec 2005
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That don't count! Lol the real nite heat dogs are known to be track dogs

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Registered: Jan 2006
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to spring creek rock. The Rock dogs I ever hunted were very well balanced.
It is when they made the half sister cross back on to him that got Rats momma and started that stuff.
I believe in those half bro. half sister crosses sometimes. but you have to be willing to cull and cut that stuff out of your breeding program if you see a problem.
that wasnt done and we are still reaping the lack of tracking ability and the over abudance of slick treeing power in it.

Of course Rock himself was a grandson of Finley River chief who to this day is still recognized as a tremendous thrower of track dogs.

There were dogs off of night heat himself advertised years ago and I never heard anything thing about them to tell me they were slick treeing dogs or lacked in tracking ability.

too many breeders are line breeding 3 and 4 times in a row without an outcross and the walker breed is getting deluted down with over powering tree dogs with the lack of ability to strike and run a cold track. you better do your pedigree homework before you buy a pup these days.

I have seen Mr whimps breeding over the years and noticed that he does what I have done, maybe line breed a couple of times and then go for an outcross and then come back with your own blood. that sounds pretty sound to me. Knowing when to outcross is the key to any great breeders program.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by cripple creek
to spring creek rock. The Rock dogs I ever hunted were very well balanced.
It is when they made the half sister cross back on to him that got Rats momma and started that stuff.
I believe in those half bro. half sister crosses sometimes. but you have to be willing to cull and cut that stuff out of your breeding program if you see a problem.
that wasnt done and we are still reaping the lack of tracking ability and the over abudance of slick treeing power in it.

Of course Rock himself was a grandson of Finley River chief who to this day is still recognized as a tremendous thrower of track dogs.

There were dogs off of night heat himself advertised years ago and I never heard anything thing about them to tell me they were slick treeing dogs or lacked in tracking ability.

too many breeders are line breeding 3 and 4 times in a row without an outcross and the walker breed is getting deluted down with over powering tree dogs with the lack of ability to strike and run a cold track. you better do your pedigree homework before you buy a pup these days.

I have seen Mr whimps breeding over the years and noticed that he does what I have done, maybe line breed a couple of times and then go for an outcross and then come back with your own blood. that sounds pretty sound to me. Knowing when to outcross is the key to any great breeders program.

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by Roger Wilson
Just to clarify. Are you saying the more inbred a dog is, the more you will get tree dogs rather than track dogs?

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From what I could tell he was one of several of the Bozo sons that could reproduce similar to their dad. Some preferred the nite heat to the other Bozo sons because he threw blanketback pups and most of the others threw open spotted ones. Most of the old timers around here that know coondogs will say Bozo changed the walker breed because before him most walkers were a packing style dog.

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http://www.coondogpedigrees.com/ped...pedigree/id/103

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Registered: Jan 2006
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you can get some undersirable traits of all kinds. They range is all over the place, shyness, high anxiety, complete craziness and not having the ability to focus, so wired that they tree just to be treeing because they are petted so much at a young age that they are treeing for the praise and not game.

Line breeding is not for the un-experienced breeder. If you do it and sell the pups without knowing the outcome of what it produced, it is out into the breeding world and you cant put the genie back in the bottle. They then take a dog with a tremendous fault and line breed it to something with the same blood even if it is a couple of generations back and it multiplies even more.

This internet board is full of slick treeing dogs and most of it can be traced back to line breeding multiple times on the same fault dog back in its pedigree.

for almost 20 years I experimented in my own kennel with every kind of line bred and in bred cross you could make. I gave all the pups away and kept track with how they turned out and what kind of traits they had etc. I trained one from each myself to make sure what I was doing was working or not working based on training as well.

So I can speak on the subject with some confidence.

I have seen dogs inbred with half brother and half sister crosses multiple, multiple times and then no one can figure out why they are doing crazy things they dont like. They dont know why because they havent done their homework and looked at the 6 and 7 generation pedigree. You have to go back that far to see where it all lines up.

It can work once, but I wouldnt do it again in the pedigree for sure. after I did do it, I would come back with an outcross or at least no closer than maybe 3 gen at least on a dog that the cross goes back to.
Just my opinion. the facts are there if you look deep enough.

I know where some are now and they run trenches in the pen from pacing because they are wired so tight.
some of them bark non stop and have to wear bark collars 24 hours a day.

The walker breed is hurting for a true true cold nose balanced track dog right now that is dominant in throwing that trait over and over no matter what he is bred to.

I am sure there are some out there, Im not just seeing an overwhelming bunch of them showing up.
I am getting too many calls from folks looking to buy that exact type dog and I have heard from hunters that have hunted at least one pup from almost every major stud dog being advertised today and being a slick treeing idiot to just plain untrainable is the range of problems.

when they mention the dogs they are out of, it is there in black and white on their papers.

There are some better reproducing stud dogs without titles in pleasure hunters yards right now than those being advertised in the magazines.

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Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:

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Originally posted by old ben
http://www.coondogpedigrees.com/ped...pedigree/id/103

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dwils
Want to know about these dogs . Rarely hear of them anymore . Who still hunts heavy nite heat lines .

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Registered: Dec 2005
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There was a stud a few years back called nite heat gossip . Chip spade had him. I wouldn't be real interested in any of what you mentioned . I would rather go to the source

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OK, CHUB SPADE HAD A DOG THATS OUT YOUR WAY NOW, PLACED 2ND IN THE WORLD A FEW YEARS BACK, CALLED SUNDOWN HANK I BELIEVE, HE MAY HAVE WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING, MODERN MIXED WITH OLD.

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: wakarusa, indiana
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Just looking for something heavy night heat . No rat , trackman or nailer if at all possible . Not necessarily wanting to buy anything just want to talk to someone that's familiar with it

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Registered: Sep 2006
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Had a male off of wipeout zeb again and a bitch straight off of night heat back in about 05 or 06 that was a super accurate track driving machine.. I dont know if it came from his momma or daddy..

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MY DAISEY FEMALE MOTHER SHOWED NITE HEAT 2 TIMES IN HER PEDIGREE MIX THST WITH COMA BLOOD WHAT DO YA HAVE A VERY BALANCE HOUND D WILLS SHE WAS A TRACK DOG AND A 100 PLUS MINUTE TREE DOG BIG MALE DOG MOUTH ACCURATE AND A HINTIN MACHINE BY HERSELF MISS HER RIP OLD GIRL

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i have kept true to old harry x finley river dan x house. none of anything i bred had rat, nailor,sackett jr. my dogs are a perfect out cross on the newer blood but i'm waiting for some stuff to get filtered out a few generations before i try mixing it up. but i know sooner or later it can't be avoided.

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The lines most of you are talking about all go back to Bozo and a Lipper bred female. Most of the old lines had to be track dogs due to the fact people actually had to have dogs that would finish a track. No feeders and dogs worked together to finish. A lot of the real old timers had a track dog and another to tree. Hot nosed quick tree dogs were culled up until the late 80's early 90's when hides went high and people were out for quick coons and fast cash but they still had atleast one good track dog for those bad nights when old quick tree could not get the job done. Then feeder bucket nite hunts demanded a quick treeing circle point dog. The mentality of the more trees made the more points you could score became the fad and the trend almost ruined the walker breed. People have finally started to realize if a dog can't finish a track with a coon at the end on a feeder or not you can't score plus points. But to be honest, the best line of track dogs will all go back to Bozo. Clover, Coma, Wipeout.............look back and you will see a good mix of Bozo and Lipper.

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Registered: Dec 2005
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I've heard from quite a few that there are some "mutts" way back from a long time ago .

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Registered: Dec 2005
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Stylish coma dogs I have always liked , but i don't consider coma dogs and wipeout in the same category . Coma dogs are track dogs, majority of wipeout are "trailing" hounds and in my eyes there is a difference . I've hunted with a lot of wipeout dogs and being track drivers wasn't an impression I ever walked away with , I looked at them more as ground pounders jmo. But have hunted with 1 or so that we're pretty nice dogs but as a whole ; not what I'm looking for

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Registered: Dec 2005
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Btt still looking for some nite heat

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Daniel ,I sent you a Pm With a guys name ,that hunted alot of Gary Davis's dogs for him .

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I remember seeing stud adds about 5 or 6 yrs ago on a dog called " Grnite Laurel Creek Bozo" he was off Hardwood Patch and Houses Lipper female. I always liked how he was bred. Also Hi-Country's Nite Heat and a full brother called " Grnite Hi-Country Bozo"

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just bought a gr.nt. that shows all those dogs in his 4 gen. ped. was hunted when he was young and just turned into a country coondog.. nite heat, pacman, wild casey, swift creek magnum, river bend flag, his ped looks like a whos who of the walker hall a fame.. as far as i know he is the only one out of his litter, and a COONDOG...!! track dog, stay put accurat tree dog, trees coon, not trees... i bought him for the pro-hunt and i like him so much he will die at my place.. he is 6, and no pups on the ground yet, i would like to maybe start breeding him a little after the pro hunt

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