Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

We all look for results in our lives. Then we hang success on those results. Many times the results can be looked at and examined and you realize they are not the results you should be getting. Or many mistakes that go unnoticed took place to get those results. Many mistakes are noticed but are overlooked.

Now that I have you confused. How many really understand that when our dogs strike a feeding coon track and many, many times it is more than one coon at the point the dog strikes. The one he first opened on may have headed north but the one he tries to follow or swaps off on went south. How many times is your dog trailing one coon and swaps off on a hotter coon. We all talk about dogs falling off a deer track and treeing a coon. Don't hear much about a dog falling off one coon track and treeing another one. Since most never realize a dog swaps tracks or even cares. The next most important part of the game is TREEING a Real Live Coon. Here is where we as hunters have messed up. Most are just happy with a tree. A tree without a coon in it is nothing to smile about. It is nothing to take no action on. It is nothing to make you feel you have anything close to a coon hound on your leash. This is the part of the hunt that you as the Hunter can evaluate and act upon. This is the part of the hunt that allows you to determine if you have the right dog or not. Why do hunters close their eyes and fool themselves when it comes to the dog having a coon in the tree. We cry for days about a rule that may make it harder for a cast to be won. We cry about how a rule might make you walk an extra half mile. When the truth is you walk miles to slick treeing dogs and then smile about it. Only to pet them and think you have a coon dog. I guess in coon hunting it is OK to fool yourself, just don't let your buddy or his dog cause you any pain. Even if it is a coon dog and has the meat.

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Last edited by Bruce m. Conkey on 09-11-2019 at 01:16 PM

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Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I couldn’t win a 1 dog hunt right now if I was the only one in it. I have not hunted much this summer it is just been unbearably hot you get to the woods when is just barley dark and hit bad cold tracks. If you battle through it and about midnight the coons start moving if I ain’t got mad and quit by then. Got a good crop of pecans this year and the coons need it it’s so dry they are already eating hackberries. Bruce you go to the pay window for the strike and the meat in the tree at the end what’s in the middle don’t count as long as they do it ahead of the other dogs.



Tar

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 1143

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
We all look for results in our lives. Then we hang success on those results. Many times the results can be looked at and examined and you realize they are not the results you should be getting. Or many mistakes that go unnoticed took place to get those results. Many mistakes are noticed but are overlooked.

Now that I have you confused. How many really understand that when our dogs strike a feeding coon track and many, many times it is more than one coon at the point the dog strikes. The one he first opened on may have headed north but the one he tries to follow or swaps off on went south. How many times is your dog trailing one coon and swaps off on a hotter coon. We all talk about dogs falling off a deer track and treeing a coon. Don't hear much about a dog falling off one coon track and treeing another one. Since most never realize a dog swaps tracks or even cares. The next most important part of the game is TREEING a Real Live Coon. Here is where we as hunters have messed up. Most are just happy with a tree. A tree without a coon in it is nothing to smile about. It is nothing to take no action on. It is nothing to make you feel you have anything close to a coon hound on your leash. This is the part of the hunt that you as the Hunter can evaluate and act upon. This is the part of the hunt that allows you to determine if you have the right dog or not. Why do hunters close their eyes and fool themselves when it comes to the dog having a coon in the tree. We cry for days about a rule that may make it harder for a cast to be won. We cry about how a rule might make you walk an extra half mile. When the truth is you walk miles to slick treeing dogs and then smile about it. Only to pet them and think you have a coon dog. I guess in coon hunting it is OK to fool yourself, just don't let your buddy or his dog cause you any pain. Even if it is a coon dog and has the meat.

---

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What about the hound that sits and spins its wheels trying to figure out which end of the track its suppose to run? Some of those empty trees are because a useless track dog has gone the wrong way on the track and locked up treed on the tree the coon came out of!! It happens more often than many realize or are willing to admit.

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Dan

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Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1110

I am harder in judging my dogs than some people. I really believe I know every fault my dog has and he has plenty. I know that when the leaves are on you can't find every coon but I feel like every tree I don't find one in is slick. I know that's not true because in the winter he is very accurate but I still think if it;s there I should see it. One thing is if they are getting treed quick without me finding the coon is different than when they have worked the track to the best of their ability and then take a chance on a tree (and my dog does) I can put up with that a little better. Isn't it aggravating that just a few little changes and your dog would be all you want it to be but you (or at least I) can't bring those changes about.

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Tom Wood

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: north ala.
Posts: 902

quote:

---

Originally posted by Preacher Tom
I am harder in judging my dogs than some people. I really believe I know every fault my dog has and he has plenty. I know that when the leaves are on you can't find every coon but I feel like every tree I don't find one in is slick. I know that's not true because in the winter he is very accurate but I still think if it;s there I should see it. One thing is if they are getting treed quick without me finding the coon is different than when they have worked the track to the best of their ability and then take a chance on a tree (and my dog does) I can put up with that a little better. Isn't it aggravating that just a few little changes and your dog would be all you want it to be but you (or at least I) can't bring those changes about.

---

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
We all look for results in our lives. Then we hang success on those results. Many times the results can be looked at and examined and you realize they are not the results you should be getting. Or many mistakes that go unnoticed took place to get those results. Many mistakes are noticed but are overlooked.

Now that I have you confused. How many really understand that when our dogs strike a feeding coon track and many, many times it is more than one coon at the point the dog strikes. The one he first opened on may have headed north but the one he tries to follow or swaps off on went south. How many times is your dog trailing one coon and swaps off on a hotter coon. We all talk about dogs falling off a deer track and treeing a coon. Don't hear much about a dog falling off one coon track and treeing another one. Since most never realize a dog swaps tracks or even cares. The next most important part of the game is TREEING a Real Live Coon. Here is where we as hunters have messed up. Most are just happy with a tree. A tree without a coon in it is nothing to smile about. It is nothing to take no action on. It is nothing to make you feel you have anything close to a coon hound on your leash. This is the part of the hunt that you as the Hunter can evaluate and act upon. This is the part of the hunt that allows you to determine if you have the right dog or not. Why do hunters close their eyes and fool themselves when it comes to the dog having a coon in the tree. We cry for days about a rule that may make it harder for a cast to be won. We cry about how a rule might make you walk an extra half mile. When the truth is you walk miles to slick treeing dogs and then smile about it. Only to pet them and think you have a coon dog. I guess in coon hunting it is OK to fool yourself, just don't let your buddy or his dog cause you any pain. Even if it is a coon dog and has the meat.

---

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

quote:

---

Originally posted by CHEWBACH
good post Bruce and to point. older I get the harder iam to please any more. believe I will just start hunting for others and quit trying to please me.. Be a lot easer . I will cull one in a heart beat .

---

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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2244

Mr Conkey, as a business man I would have expected you to have taken a less controversial stance as to the definition of a coon dog.

You see those so called whiners you are referring to are "in some cases" very much like TRUMP supporters. You know the ones once called deplorable. They too are staunch supporters of a set of requirements set forth by the founding Fathers of competition coon hunting, much like those in support of the 2nd Amendment. These very same fundamental HOUND characteristics that these (so called Whiners) are voicing concern over, is much like the position so many good American Patriots have taken in reference to the 2nd Amendment rights to keep and bare arms

They are taking a stand on what traits a HOUND should have, and not wanting to see the competition guru's change traits of a HOUND just to make it easier to win a hunt.

Those very same people (those so called whiners) equal at least 30 percent of a market of which YOU depend on.

Since you suggested we are results driven in order to be successful, why would you care how many empty trees another man walks to. As long as his tree is empty, you are still going to beat him in competition, so long as your dog makes no mistakes, and as a handler you yourself also makes no mistakes. The more trees he walks to, the more boots you sell, the more lights you sell, and the list goes on and on.

Maybe I missed the point of your intention of this post, and please forgive me if I did, but I don't take kindly to someone trying to belittle me because I have a different opinion as to the direction of what/how a HOUND is to operate.

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Registered: Dec 2017
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Posts: 340

Rocket man I didn’t get offended by word he said. If the shoe fits wear it. Besides he didn’t mention your name or mine for that matter. Suck it up.

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Location:
Posts: 589

If as you say, most coon hunters are satisfied with a tree and don't really care if there is a coon in it is it any wonder there are so many slick treeing hounds out there??

I've said for years that before any hound, wether coon hound or beagle, gets a champion degree it should have to be seen solo in the field by a licensed judge bringing its game to the gun. Be that in a tree, circled as in a hare/rabbit or bayed up like a hog.

Do that and the Champion population will dwindle dramatically and the champion degree will have far greater meaning.

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Dan

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

scratch them dogs for treeing obvious slicks and watch the accuracy improve drasticly.

they scratch them for treeing off game. should be the same for slicks.

I say try it at a major event and have a panel on standby to
go and look at trees in question and barr the ones that voted to scratch on a legit circle tree or barr whoever made the panel go look at an obvious slick, id say six mnths on the sidelines would have them voting more honestly in the future

you know it could be done

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3370

Slick treeing is the main thing I wanted to see addressed in the rule changes. It was avoided like the plague.

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Donald Bergeron

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Registered: Jan 2018
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Posts: 236

quote:

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Originally posted by Preacher Tom
I know that when the leaves are on you can't find every coon but I feel like every tree I don't find one in is slick.

---

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2154

That depends on how you measure results.

If I go deer hunting and see 20 deer, but bring back none, did I have a successful result?

If I go fishing and see 20 fish, but bring back none, did I have a successful result?

If I go coonhunting, and see 20 coon, but bring back none, did I have a successful result?

Sometimes, no tangible results, but a nice day or night is a success for me. Other times, it is not. It depends on my objective for that day or night.

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Registered: Oct 2018
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Posts: 30

I can't see them minusing a tree,one of the k.c.'s has already declared that you can't minus a dog for treeing fowl.If a turkey is not trash,pray tell what could be.At least possums and squirrels climb trees.If you can't minus a turkey why would you minus a slick tree.There must be something to that because you can hardly get them to minus a tree no matter how questionable it is.I'm sure when you're pleasure hunting ,if your dog tree's a turkey it's alright because he won't get minus.It would be nice if they had night hunt rules to fit a coonhunting dog.Hunters that have been around know the difference.

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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

quote:

---

Originally posted by honalieh
That depends on how you measure results.

If I go deer hunting and see 20 deer, but bring back none, did I have a successful result?

If I go fishing and see 20 fish, but bring back none, did I have a successful result?

If I go coonhunting, and see 20 coon, but bring back none, did I have a successful result?

Sometimes, no tangible results, but a nice day or night is a success for me. Other times, it is not. It depends on my objective for that day or night.

---

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Posts: 589

To some degree, dogs that slick tree a high percentage of the time can be blamed on the handler/trainer.

I got to where I didn't praise my dogs up or encourage them to tree until AFTER I found the coon. Some dogs don't need much of any encouragement or praise when they tree. Others the praise seems to be an encouragement. If I was certain the tree was empty I just snapped on the lead and led them away with no praise.

In today's world with the collars we have now, a good trainer with a good collar has options we didn't once have. That same collar in the hands of a poor trainer will ruin a hound in short order.

In the end I will always want the naturally born accurate tree dog and even those will miss occasionally. When I see the perfect hound I'll expect to find the perfect handler on the other end of the leash! Good luck with that!

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Dan

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Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

I agree with a lot of what you said Dan
For me I would also add that I don't like blowing on a sqauller beating on the tree or shaking vines till I have already found the coon at least while I'm training and if someone is going along for a hunt with me while I'm training I expect them to do the same or we won't be training together long.
Trainer/handler has a lot to do with accuracy.
Dens are also leashed and walk away no petting.

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Registered: May 2017
Location: West Plains Mo
Posts: 471

I had female that was around 70% accurate. But fast as could be and first and first kinda dog super hard flashy tree dog but she got tick fever never was same. So I told buddy I was goin find something super accurate. And I have but I had give up some speed and lost little bit quickness on strike but he somewhere in 90% range on accuracy. And just steady stay put treedog nothing fancy. But I win more with steady honest hound that gets little to no minus and has coon when he parks. Takes stress out handling and its simple. Not mention lots more enjoyable to pleasure hunt.

There are a few world class hounds that are fast and accurate blow down tree dogs. But most time you have to decide what's most important to you and give up something to get it get something.

And I cant wait for leaves to get off.

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Registered: Jun 2007
Location: sc
Posts: 27

I started coonhunting about 1965. I can tell you that few hounds in this area would tree period. The ones that did were very accurate because the hunters would find the coon if it was there, sometimes by climbing the tree or waiting until daylight. Blank tree dogs were culled quickly.
I don't many of us want to go back to the day that it was so hard to find tree dog . I think each hunter should enjoy what you hunt or get something different and let the other person decide what they like. If you are worried about the type of pups being produced go hunt with parents

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