Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

Pat I understand what you are saying but the reality of the dogs that are getting open and what your implying are different. Today in the hunts dogs are hustling around opening up on air, trash, even other dogs and receiving undeserved points. The fix is not to minus these hounds but instead not to give them credit for such nonsense. It's not the perfect solution but the best solution.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Bruce anouther idea that I been thinking about (if) these rules pass and (if ) the minie slams were to become popular have state races. The top 4 in each state would be qualified along with the rqe winners for that years world hunt. The minie slams you get performance points , a win tword your title you get cash money that night and you get qualified for the world if you get in the top 4 of your state. Don’t that sound like a recipe for success?



Tar

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

Tar you are right in one respect ... the only way to ever truly increase any significant numbers at the local level is to have some sort of pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, a race that is not Purina points or performance point orientated, something appealable to the everyday coonhunter. As of now the only way to qualify for Purina Nationals is to hunt in Purina hunts which has nothing to do with the local club level. MANY own dogs that are not performanced so even though there are some that hunt in hunts to get that check once a year they are far from the majority.
There are a few types of competition hunters -
Those that enjoy competing whether it be for a pack of bubble gum, yellow slip of paper, $54 or $72 & when they have the time and or funds a few larger events. They are a clubs base and there should be something for them and their loyalty and efforts.
There are those that only hunt in larger events some it's for the challenge of $ others a weekend trip to their breed days. Want to draw them more often, give them a reason to show up.
Where UKC misses the boat is the offering of a goal that pushed hunters to hunt at the local level with a goal in mind. Think of those in other kc's that run state races that also earn them national tickets while at the same time the chance to earn truck tickets and those $'s through winning at the local level qualifying them for SS and breed races. I just listed 5 reasons that people show at our local other kc events.
UKC has no state or national races that involve the local clubs. Local clubs are solely supported by those who just like to compete while at the same time earning a title on their dog, there is no true reason to continue other than a higher title. They need a goal to shoot for that involves local hunters and clubs at the local level that brings prestige in qualifying for. It needs to be attainable to qualify but yet tough to win. Elimination style lol.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Jen you are right. I for one have struggled with the goals I have told you before most of the clubs are gone down here or a long ways apart and the $$$$ kc down here their entry’s every other weekend are usually always $300. That leaves me out !! I have always hunted my dogs for going to this hunt or that hunt in mind with less hunts my goals are gone. So start a club they say I have set behind the table all I want to I want to hunt like everybody else. I would like to know how many hunters that the only ukc hunt they hunt in is they go to an rqe then the zones then the finals ? Or just go to the hunts with big prize packages ? The new format was supposed to help the local clubs but without state races or goals for the local hunters it is not complete. Give goals and modern rules where you can compete against these modern dogs ukc would be unstoppable!!


Tar

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Tar you have some good points but one thing always rings true in your statements. It is a dislike for the modern dog. I understand how older people don't like change and think the modern ways disrupts the foundation of things. But the facts are. Modern dogs are here to stay and the modern hunter doesn't understand the dogs you are talking about and they sure don't want them. Why, because they beat them every weekend. They feel the reason is their dogs perform better and you feel the reason is they have a non traditional cheating dog.

There is one word that needs to come into play here and that is TRADITION. It is always a shame when TRADITION takes a backseat to what is happening in our world today. But we all have to get over it, if you're going to be part of something moving forward. TRADITION while us old timers like to talk about it. In many cases is nothing more that a ball and chain around the neck of the person, company or organization hanging on to it.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Bruce I will be the first to admit it’s not about me anymore. You prolly will remember about 3 yrs ago I hit the $$$$ circuit pretty hard and did pretty good and loved the format I seen where no matter what kind of style of dog you drew you had several different ways to be able to compete with them with a traditional dog. The rules above will be the same way. I have a 32 year old son that loves this sport I just want to see it spit shined and stood proud for all the young folks to see.


Tar

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
Pat I understand what you are saying but the reality of the dogs that are getting open and what your implying are different. The fix is not to minus these hounds but instead not to give them credit for such nonsense. It's not the perfect solution but the best solution.

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IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

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Last edited by Pat Bizich on 05-29-2019 at 03:38 PM

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Pat a dog opening before you get the snap off his collar every drop is not what I call an open trailer. Back in the day we broke them to at least get 100 yards or so away from you before they opened because of the rules in place. Just because they got that far before they opened didn’t mean they were silent. I have a big problem with a dog opening off the snap and being a mile deep every drop we all ain’t big dummies.


Tar

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 958

quote:

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Originally posted by Sgraves
Mr Pat I too like a open mouth track dog. It is an should be the only measure of a true hound. But the dog your talking about is not the type being brought to these hunts. Some are against the silent mouth dogs in the hunts. An all should be against the babbler. Me , I just want the one treeing the coon getting the credit. The people that are involved in this sport will never be at peace because everyone wants the easy way out. Its not easy preparing a dog for these hunts. Its an every night thing if you want to be successful. People don’t want to prepare. They want rule changes to accommodate their style dog.

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Pat a dog opening before you get the snap off his collar every drop is not what I call an open trailer. I have a big problem with a dog opening off the snap and being a mile deep every drop we all ain’t big dummies.


Tar

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__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

It’s a free country, a man can hunt whatever he wants. He feeds it an that is all that matters. In order to be successful in these hunts a dog has to fit the rules that are in place. That’s plain to see. A good handler that knows the rules well an has a dog that can tree coon is hard to beat.That is the way it should be. I don’t like rule changes. There are people that for years have bred to get their dogs like need be to win. Yes times are changing, we to will have to change if we want to keep up. People will continue to come up with ways to win if the dog power is not there. There is no better sound than a hound getting struck on a track an warming it up treeing an seeing those eyes. That’s why we do what we do. No body wants to take the open mouth track dogs away an push for silent ones . That’s foolish thinking. I know what a hound sounds like that has struck a legit track, many others do too. You want make me believe that the majority of the dogs that are in these hunts today are stricking on a legit coon track. That’s the whole problem folks is getting tired of dogs being struck off the leash just to be leashed locked an walking a mile.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by BigContry
They want rule changes to accommodate their style dog. WELL SAID!!!!!! Thank you!!!!!
I was typing this when I read Sgraves post

I got so aggravated when reading this, I just had to stop reading. JMO which don’t me nothing. So we changing the rules to fit the dogs. Tight mouth, slick treeing, get out of the country, spend the entire hunt walking to one dog. Get rid of babbling scratch rule, Strike points, no strikepoints, all the same strike points. Sounds like squirrel hunts to me. Coon Hunting is an American Tradition, and we keep getting further away from the original hunt. Why? So the dogs being breed today can win, that’s all that matters it the win. Man oh Man.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 1141

quote:

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Originally posted by Pat Bizich
Now you guys are getting my dander up.
A true hound .. read that again...TRUE HOUND. .. must first be able to smell ...trail... and... TREE SECONDARY TO RUNNING A TRACK they must be accurate in doing so or there would be no sense in awarding minus when they tree wrong for not finishing that track accurately.
If opening has no consequence why is there a rule dealing with dogs proving to be open trailers ? Why do HTX hunts fault a dog that does not open on trail? BECAUSE IT IS A HOUND TRAIT!!!!
Any barn yard mutt dog can tree game. That is the difference between a hound and not some mongrel farm dog that can tree game.
Saying how quick a dog strikes has no bearing on a dogs ability is a bogus cop out by guys hunting hot nosed dogs that want to level the field for their HOT NOSED DOGS!!!
You may as well be hunting curs.
So you got three dogs lollygagging around. One dog goes out and is hustling up a good track. The other three dogs get in on the track with one actually getting the first tree away from the one that found the track . AND YOU SAY THEY SHOULD ALL GET EQUAL CREDIT FOR THAT TRACK??? I say BULL.
You guys wanting rule changes that penalize good hard hunting strike dogs are like the political garbage going on today. Everyone wants the country to come around to the way they want to live instead of conforming to the USA laws everyone else is already living by . Because it is good for them.
You guys want to change the rules to fit what you are hunting instead of hunting dogs that can win by the current rules. Because it is better for them .

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 958

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Tommy I am an old doggie I come from a time when the only way you knew where your dog was is if it barked. The only tools you had to win a hunt was your mind and your dog. We had no gizmos!! The only way you will know if you are going to like the rules above is get some freinds together and try them a few times. I don’t like change but I promise you those rules give an honest dog more ways to win against those new style of dogs they have now. I took a dead last (open trailing ) strike dog and a first tree dog with the meat and beat the brakes off of those new style dogs.


Tar

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Tommy Gayle
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigContry
I'm with you Tar, I'm old school also, so is my hunting buddy, who is 73 or 74. I would just hate to see us going to a squirrel dog type of hunting. I love to comp hunt, and trying to get one ready, if he will get right. Had a fellow say he wants his dog to get treed at lest every 15 mins in a 2 hour hunt, and only expects it to have a coon in only 1 or 2 of the trees. Spend all night chasing that all over the woods. I'm too old and hurt too much for that. [/QUOT


No that that Curtis posted was just me and Greg debating because we don’t like babbling dogs. We both like a good open running dog that trees because most times they tend to be more accurate! The rules proposals is what we are talking about they give you a way to keep that 100 strike 75 tree dog minus you at the end of the night for the win off of you give you some breathing room so you don’t have to be flawless.



Tar

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